<p>A small splash of reality here. 1260 won't cut it - even if it's the current average, remember that the average is (considerably) weighted down by prior service and NAPS athletic candidates. If you're in a competitive district, you might need as much as 1450-1500 to win the district.</p>
<p>No matter where you live, assume that 1300 is the bottom end for a non-recruited athlete coming out of high school. If you live on the East Coast, West Coast, or Texas, you're gunning for a 1400. PREP FOR THE NEXT EXAM and take it as many times as possible. Also take the ACT - many people find it easier.</p>
<p>The curves aren't out yet for the new SAT, but I'm assuming you'd need about a 2000 on that.</p>
<p>Katelewis is on the mark. You need to boost your SAT scores. I may be wrong but I think the academies will continue to focus on the math and verbal scores until some time has passed on the new writing portion of the test. Your target should be 700+ on math and verbal. As boring as it may be, take the test as often as possible until you max out. </p>
<p>Frosty:</p>
<p>Your academics are strong enough. As you indicate, your weak area is team athletics. While physical fitness and athleticism are important to the academies, they are also looking for individuals who have experienced and enjoyed the team atmosphere present in most sports. If possible, it would be great if you could earn a varsity letter in cross country since that season ends in late fall and you could update your application before yearend. Tennis, unfortunately, is a spring sport and a varsity letter next year wouldn't get into your application in time.</p>
<p>About 25% are USMAPS or prior enlisted, as I recall. I did the math once and calculated that the average SAT for non-USMAPS was approximately 1300. Of course, many athletes and URM's enter directly with below average SAT's ...I think it's reasonable to assume that approx 50% of the class is receiving dispensation on academics (athletes, prior enlisted, URM's). This was the figure quoted for the Naval Academy this past year. Add in lightly contested districts and, well - draw your own conclusions for what you'll need to hit. But complacency at your score level would be a mistake.</p>
<p>For your area, why don't you try to contact your ALO and find out what SAT's won your district over the past 2 years?</p>
<p>BTW - I agree with aspen. I don't think that there will be as much weight on the writing score. SATII writing was never required in the past.</p>
<p>Your admissions liaison officer. He's responsible for your geographic area and should know the competitiveness of his districts. BTW - I edited the post above to add more info.</p>
<p>Just a couple of comments concerning the above messages...</p>
<p>The local admissions representatives are MALOs (Military Academy Liason Officers) not ALOs.</p>
<p>SAS offers and offers of admission are totally separate. The USMA and USNA admissions offices will tell you that. Granted that if you are admitted to the summer seminars, there is a good chance for admission, but it is not guaranteed. Two examples are my son was quickly rejected for what was then IAW at West Point, but received a LOA the following September for admission. A family friend was admitted to the similar summer seminar at USNA but she did not receive an offer of admission.</p>
<p>For sports participation, USMA primarily looks for contact team sports participation. Better if varsity letters are earned, and better yet if you are a team captain.</p>
<p>"Two examples are my son was quickly rejected for what was then IAW at West Point, but received a LOA the following September for admission. A family friend was admitted to the similar summer seminar at USNA but she did not receive an offer of admission."</p>
<p>Keep in mind that a lot of this is the result of the fact that USNA admits far more candidates to it's summer program than does USMA. Consequently Navy can have a bit lower "bar" in place when selecting summer candidates. That fact alone results in a higher percentage of summer seminar participants at WP getting offers of appointment than do USNA candidates attending Navy's summer program (as the Army candidates are most likely having to pass over a higher "bar".) In 2004 600 attended the Army seminar (1400 admission offers) vs more than 1800 attending the Navy (1400 admission offers).</p>
<p>I was accepted to the IAW however I was given the AOG scholarship instead of an appointment, however a girl who goes to the same school as I do, was rejected to the IAW but was given an appointment</p>
<p>So despite my somewhat low sat scores..... will my acceptance in sls, my class rank, my varsity sports and letters, and my numerous clubs even my chances of being accepted?</p>
<p>I mean, how I performed four hours on a saturday morning shouldn't pale my hard work over four years of high school should it?</p>
<p>Keep taking the SAT; you will probably be pleasantly surprised with the increases you will see. The 2nd time I took it I only went up 20pts, but on the third time my score jumped from a 1300 to 1380. It was completely unexpected. I guess I was just having a good day! Most of my friends were able to increase their scores by about 50pts when they took it again, so have hope!</p>
<p>To me the summer programs seem to be a first come, first served type of thing, as long as you have a decent PSAT or SAT.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So despite my somewhat low sat scores..... will my acceptance in sls, my class rank, my varsity sports and letters, and my numerous clubs even my chances of being accepted?
[/quote]
No. Your EC's are average for West Point. You need to beef up leadership positions in addition to cranking your scores.</p>
<p>Sorry to be blunt, but much better you know now, while you have time to fix it. Remember, it's not an absolute standard you're hitting (the am-I-a-good-guy standard). You are competing with other candidates for that nomination.</p>
<p>KateLewis- Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you have as much expertise as others on this board and yet you are definitive in your remarks. I thank you for pointing out what I should improve, but I have talked to numerous people including current West Point cadets who feel that my chances are pretty good. I am sorry that I don't meet the standards of a perfect West Point Cadet to you, but i don't need to. I have looked at West Points web site and have seen that I fit the profile pretty nicely. I understand that you are be trying to help me, such as telling me to boost the Ec's and scores and what not. However, think of all the people you may be discouraging that have stats similar to mine who want to go to West Point. Apparently West Point feels that I am capable considering i was one of 800 out of 4000-5000 kids accepted to SLS. I may have overlooked something, but ultimately I am trying to impress an admissions officer, not you. I thank you for your comments, they are well appreciated. However, I hope that in the future, you will not base your opinions on second hand knowledge and put them through as fact.</p>
<p>jq722- From what liitle expertise I have (I'm basing it off of my experience), I would say you have a good shot. You're probably already competitive. Boosting your SAT's would be helpful though. Taking them again never hurts.</p>
<p>Your stats are superior to mine, like just about everyone on this board, but I got in. Good Luck with the admissions process. I'm sure you'll have a good time with that.</p>
<p>JQ 722 - I'll echo a couple of points made by others plus some more food for thought. Try to boost the SAT scores by taking them again. You should also try to take the ACT a couple of times. Remember they take the best individual component score from each test, not the composite. You asked if the standardized testing is really that important compared to other things (4 hours vs. 4 years). Remember 60% of your Whole Candidate Score is based on standard test results, your GPA, and the competiitiveness of your school. </p>
<p>Also, as I mentioned earlier, USMA likes contact team sports over individual sports. After all war is a team contact sport. Consider the training during CBT and CFT during the first two summers at USMA. There is a lot of teamwork and physical contact included in the training. Prior experience shows you have what it takes. Tennis and cross country would be considered as individual sports. You have letters, which are good, but team captain next year would show leadership. Also, you listed several EC activites. Leadership in these activities next year by being an officer also would add to your score.</p>
<p>No problem. I don't take it the wrong way. I am not an expert; sadly, no one on this board really is. Would love to have a docfrance here. The only expert support you should rely on is your local and regional admissions rep. </p>
<p>I have, however, done a lot of research on the points you raise and, reviewing them, believe my statements above are accurate. Academics are the single biggest factor in calculating your whole candidate score; they outweigh extracurriculars 2 to 1. SAT's and rank are the primary basis for the academics portion. Your rank is strong; your SAT's are not. I can't remember the ratio between SAT's and rank at USMA, but at top schools it is usually 2:1 as well. Don't underestimate the value of those 4 hours on a Saturday morning to your application.</p>
<p>As I mentioned above, you have better stats than many people at USMA. The important thing (unless you are a URM or recruited athlete, or have access to a presidential nom) is whether you have better stats than anyone in your district. If you live in Maryland or many parts of California, Texas, New York, MA, or NJ, you probably don't. Remember, at its heart this is a local competition. That's why I recommended you talk to your local admissions rep to get a sense for what will be required. Alternatively, track down the cadets from your district for the last couple of years (try the Cadets of West Point website) and find out what their stats were.</p>
<p>One more comment. The admission to SLS does not contribute to the strength of your application. Attending, though, can help in two ways (that do contribute to the WCS). It displays interest and commitment (which is worth some points); also, if you do really well, you'll get a positive review from your squad leader.</p>
<p>I think Katelewis made some very accurate statements regarding sat scores and class rank. Also keep in mind that class rank will be compared to others in your district who may be competing within a class that has significantly more students...a school with a senior class of only 100 MAY not look as competitive to the admissions board as one with 500-600 or 700 students---the same comparision will inevitably be made with regard to varsity letters. With a school of only 400-500 kids TOTAL, admissions is going to immediately make a judgement about how difficult it is or is not to earn a varsity letter in that environment. This is why it is CRITICAL to get that SAT or ACT score up--it is one of the great "equalizers" when comparing students from various backgrounds and schools.</p>
<p>jq722: Don't shoot the messenger! Katelewis is giving you good info.</p>
<p>Ask yourself if you want to "have a shot" or want to "get into USMA". Katelewis is giving you advice on how to maximize your chance of getting in. Except for those with medical disqualifications, I expect that almost all the 12000 applicants to USMA "had a shot". Unfortunately about 9 out of 10 missed. Investing some study time and Saturday mornings at the SAT testing site will pay big dividends.</p>
<p>You want first hand experience. Here goes. Our son's initial SAT score was a strong 1390 ( 710 V/690 M). He looked at the USMA information and made two observations. First, LOA's are offered to about 20% of the incoming class. About 20-25% of the Class of 07 had SAT scores above 700. He retook his SAT's in spring of his junior year and improved them to 1480 ( 740/740). He attended IAW last summer and received an LOA on August 2nd before even receiving his formal application package. When he talked with his MALO he found out that the strong SAT scores and participation at IAW were key to his LOA.</p>
<p>Would he have "had a shot" at 1390, sure. However, here's the other piece of the story. In our congressional district, there is a "superstar" candidate who had near perfect SAT's, great athletics and EC's. Because of other commitments, he did not attend IAW. He received an LOA and the MOC principal nomination. Without the LOA, our son would have likely been placed on the wait list and could still be waiting. </p>
<p>As this forum as pointed out, the two main ways to get an appointment are via athletics and scholastics (I will leave out the legacy and service related appointment paths). From your profile, you will mostly compete on scholastics. Unless you are strong enough academically to get a letter of assurance, you will compete against other candidates in your congressional/senate districts. If you have a member of congress(MOC) that gives principal nominations, your chances will depend more on your ability to impress your MOC selection commitee than on impressing USMA. If there is a "super star" in your district, winning the principal will be tough.</p>
<p>The ideal situation is to receive a letter of assurance and avoid the competition at the local congressional/senate levels. Having an LOA also eliminates a great deal of stress during your senior year. Katelewis's advice will improve your chances to receive one. </p>
<p>If you read the various postings , virtually all of the candidates receiving LOA's have had 1400+ SAT scores and varsity level athletics.</p>
<p>Sure, your current profile gives you "a shot" at USMA. I would hope your goal is to make yourself as close to a "sure thing" as possible.</p>