<p>Hi everybody! I've just joined the site after reading many helpful posts from hopeful to-be music majors/already admitted music majors.
I am a high school senior flautist/composer hoping to attend a major conservatory or university next year. I am mainly concerned about my chances of admission, as I know fully well that the world of music is huge and full of extremely talented people.
I have a list of 20 schools right now, that I hope to cut down and, if need be, add more backup schools to.
Here it is, just for reference: Mannes, Oberlin Conservatory, USC, Manhattan School of Music, NYU, NEC (top choice!!), BU, Boston Conservatory, Carnegie Mellon, SF Conservatory, Cleveland, U of Miami, Vanderbilt, Peabody, UC Santa Barbara, Bard, Curtis, UCLA, U Mass, and U Michigan.
I am open to more suggestions, but I really want to hear from students or parents who have gone through the whole college process, and who have both had success and disappointment from certain schools.
The help is GREATLY appreciated!
I will share any information as well! Thank you!</p>
<p>Welcome - </p>
<p>I just completed the process with my daughter, who has graduated HS and will pursue a BM in flute performance beginning in Fall 2012 (Frost at UMiami)</p>
<p>While we were clueless about this process when we began, last fall, we learned on this board - and then first-hand, that it isn’t a matter of finding a school. It’s a matter of finding the right teacher.</p>
<p>Will you be pursuing a BM in flute performance or in composition?</p>
<p>Have you had an opportunity for trial lessons with any of the flute teachers at the schools you’ve listed? If so, great. If not, it’s highly recommended. Alternatively, arrange a lesson at a school near where you live, for the purpose of evaluating your playing and gauging whether or not you’d be a competitive candidate for that school (even if you are not planning to apply there).</p>
<p>My D had some lessons in advance, and some adjacent to the actual audition. Both methods were fine. There were a few places where she had a trial lesson and decided not to apply.</p>
<p>Talk with your parents to have an understanding of how much, if anything, they can contribute towards your college degree, and be sure to include options that you can afford. Discuss a budget with them for attending live or regional auditions, as well as preparing pre-screen audition cd’s and/or preliminary trial lessons…</p>
<p>Review the Master List of acceptances here, where you can see the range of scholarships awarded to applicants.</p>
<p>You haven’t included your academic stats; while the audition is of primary importance, at some of your schools you will also have to be approved academically.</p>
<p>Review the audition requirements at the schools and see what music you already know and what you’ll need to learn (especially in time for submitted a pre-screen audition CD).</p>
<p>Assuming you are planning to attend auditions in person rather than regionally or submitting CDs, bear in mind that the process is very expensive, as well as time consuming and grueling. There are often conflicts (ie, multiple auditions on the same day) making it impossible to attend all of the auditions (often rendering your application useless, as it is less likely for an applicant to be admitted without a live audition). The auditions are during the winter, which means you’ll be fighting off colds, exhausted from juggling the travel, practice and academics. It’s do-able, but very taxing. Read thru the threads at this forum which talk about how many auditions folks were able to do live.</p>
<p>You will surely need to cut-back from the 20 schools; just not humanly possible… and, bear in mind that there’s really no such thing as a safety for any school where an audition is involved.</p>
<p>Look thru the master list of acceptances for the past few years, going to the last few posts of each thread, and see where other flute students were accepted. If you have questions about the teachers or schools for a particular poster, send a PM (private message) or email; some of them are still watching the board.</p>
<p>–
Re-reading your post, and seeing your question - about “success and disappointment from certain schools” - I really don’t think I understand the question or the relevance. My daughter was accepted at some schools, weight-listed, and rejected. But it’s all specific to the individual player, teacher and the audition.</p>
<p>Do you have a private teacher?
Do you have someone who can objectively evaluate your playing to determine where you’d be a competitive candidate?</p>
<p>oh - by the way - one of the things that helped us gauge my d’s level was looking at the required music for the auditions. She refined several pieces for the auditions, but only had to learn one new substantial piece; learning more than that piece would probably not have been possible, and that helped guide her about where to apply.</p>
<p>mtpaper has given some great advice. I’d like to add a few things as well. </p>
<p>Have you visited any of these schools yet? I strongly advise you to visit as many schools as possible (as money and time allows) before deciding whether or not to audition. I’ve been to several schools on this list and while some of them have felt like I could happily live/go to school there for four years, several others left me with a less than pleasing impression, despite their reputable music programs. Visiting is the only way to truly know if you like the school or not. If you’d like to know which schools left me with which impressions, feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Also, if you don’t mind me asking, what are your academic stats? UCLA, NYU, USC, Carnegie Mellon, Peabody/JHU, UMich, Oberlin, and Vandy all have a lot of academic prestige. If your grades and test scores aren’t strong enough for these schools, you may need to start eliminating some of them from your list. If your grades are pretty strong and within mid-range or higher for some of these schools, maybe you should consider getting rid of a few conservatories on your list in favor of universities with great music programs AND great academics. It’s totally your call though.</p>
<p>As far as safeties go, I haven’t heard anything about UCSB and Bard’s music or academic programs, so maybe they’re less prestigious and therefore easier to get into (or maybe I jus haven’t heard about them). I don’t know. UCLA and NYU may or may not be music-safeties but definitely aren’t academic safeties for most. All the other ones on your list definitely cannot be considered safeties music-wise, but are certainly possible if you can perform a good audition. Some people go so far as to say that there’s no such thing as a safety school for music, so keep that in mind as well.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that some musicians pick colleges based on who teaches their instrument there. So do some research on the flute/composition instructors for some of those schools just in case that information may come in handy. </p>
<p>Just for some background on who’s giving you advice - I applied/auditioned for and got into NYU, UMiami, Berklee College of Music, The New School for Jazz and Contemporary Music (Mannes is the classical school within The New School), and USC for various music programs and I’m attending USC in the fall. Again, PM me if you have any questions. Best wishes!</p>
<p>It is going to be tough to gain admittance to any of the music schools you list, some a lot more difficult then others. Flute tends to be one of the most difficult admits, perhaps even more then violin and piano, because they admit so few (to give you an idea, one top level conservatory for a given year was going to admit 1 flutist (flautist?), and that 1 spot represented grad or undergrad…)…</p>
<p>That said, you may want to get your skill set evaluated to help figure out what you need to do to be ready for the audition process, your teacher is high level enough can probably assess where you are and what you would need to do, though if you feel your current teacher may not be that knowledgeable, you may want to arrange an assesment with someone who is theoretically on a high level, like flute teacher at a respected program or some such. The reason I suggest this is that with music, there is often a world of difference between a good, local teacher and teachers in the ‘big leagues’, in terms of understanding and knowing what the admission process is like.</p>
<p>Once you have an assesment of where you are, you can start looking at potential schools to decide what is possible, what is a stretch and what may not be worth it, simply to keep the numbers reasonable. I also suggest that once you start making your first lists, e-mail the admissions department and ask them how many slots they anticipate for the upcoming year to be open on your instrument, because that is important, too.</p>
<p>As far as Bard goes, they are a very competitive admit in the music school, because it isn’t big, and academically they are pretty highly competitive as well, so you would need both good grades/tests and a good audition to get in there.</p>
<p>mtpaper: Congrats to you and your daughter!! I hope she enjoys her time at UMiami
I actually live only about an hour away from Miami. Next year, however, I’ll be attending Interlochen Academy, so hopefully I can visit it before next school year.
I am applying to many of the schools for both flute and composition, and for some, only flute (Boston Conservatory and SF, for example), and for others, only composition (Curtis, etc.). My top choice school offers a major in composition and an instrument of choice, which is perfect for me.
I studied with a teacher from Manhattan School last summer, and have set up a few in September. Thank you for your advice about teachers and setting up trial lessons-I think it will clarify with my parents, especially, about the things we need to do before college apps.
I will also definitely be cutting back my number of schools-figuring out which ones to cut is the difficult part. May I ask how many schools your daughter applied to? Were they all for majoring in flute performance?
About my “success and disappointment” comment-I basically meant admissions, waitlisting, and rejection.
I do have a private teacher, and have been to many well-known summer institutes, masterclasses, competitions, etc
I have also looked at the required audition repertoire, which is so important to do in advance. </p>
<p>Thank you SO much for your wonderful advice and for taking the time to type a response it has definitely clarified a few things for me. Best wishes to your daughter at Frost!!</p>
<p>27dreams: Unfortunately, I have not visited any of these schools. The only one I know for a fact that I will be visiting is NEC, and probably UMiami, since I live closely to it. I will definitely be interested in knowing what schools didn’t quite impress you though. </p>
<p>Academically: I have a 3.8 GPA, 4.7 HPA (including the 2 music classes I have taken every year-band and orchestra, which I think most colleges take out). I have only taken 2 APs throughout high school (freshman year offered none though), which I do quite regret…my parents didn’t know what APs were, and I wasn’t sure until this year (naive, right? haha). I will be taking 4 or 5 next year, depending on what Interlochen allows me to take (it will be my first year there). Other than that I have taken mostly honors, 4 years of French (if that helps). I got a 2000 on my first SAT, and do not yet have my scores to my 2nd one or my 1st ACT. I am pretty positive I can raise my scores at least 100 points though, before college apps. What do you think? </p>
<p>Thank you so much for your advice, and lots of congrats on your amazing achievements in music!!</p>
<p>musicprnt: Thanks for your insight! I will surely take your advice and email admissions departments to find out their slot numbers. Thank you!</p>
<p>@OP - I have written to you the long version of our history as an email</p>
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<p>It may be very difficult to take this many during your senior year, on top of preparing for your auditions, and running around the country auditioning. Before you commit to the class, find out the school’s policy about dropping out of an AP.</p>
<p>I would also consider Eastman, perhaps. There are a lot of college programs, that people on here can tell you about. Your list is mainly conservatories so that seems to be the priority for you right now. A few random comments:</p>
<p>Bard requires a double degree (BA and BM) from all conservatory students, which means 5 years. It’s a great school and very competitive. Oberlin and some other schools offer double degree programs, but they are optional.</p>
<p>Some schools will want you to audition with flute even if you are applying for composition, and some will not, as you probably already know.</p>
<p>Some applicants feel they want to apply to the schools (teachers) they most want, and if they don’t get in, then plan to spend a year on music and apply again. Others apply to some back-ups to be safe. That is something you can decide.</p>
<p>Conservatories can be expensive, even with merit money.</p>
<p>A lot of conservatories (including NEC) don’t care so much about all those AP’s, though you can get credit for them, which is nice. If you are applying to conservatories, I agree with the other poster that it might not be the best idea to load up on AP’s in senior year. Your academic stats and test scores look fine, I would think.</p>
<p>Applying for both flute and composition will keep you very busy.</p>
<p>Interlochen will help you a lot with all this, and some schools/conservatories will send reps to the school. You can visit some schools for the first time when you audition: it is tough to visit before applying, then for the audition, and then when you are accepted, so some rationing of visits is helpful.</p>
<p>Just fyi, my daughter applied to 4 conservatories and two colleges, and that was plenty. Audition time was very busy! She chose carefully, and it would seem that you will too.</p>
<p>I would also consider Eastman, perhaps. There are a lot of college programs, that people on here can tell you about. Your list is mainly conservatories so that seems to be the priority for you right now. A few random comments:</p>
<p>Bard requires a double degree (BA and BM) from all conservatory students, which means 5 years. It’s a great school and very competitive. Oberlin and some other schools offer double degree programs, but they are optional.</p>
<p>Some schools will want you to audition with flute even if you are applying for composition, and some will not, as you probably already know.</p>
<p>Some applicants feel they want to apply to the schools (teachers) they most want, and if they don’t get in, then plan to spend a year on music and apply again. Others apply to some back-ups to be safe. That is something you can decide.</p>
<p>Conservatories can be expensive, even with merit money.</p>
<p>A lot of conservatories (including NEC) don’t care so much about all those AP’s, though you can get credit for them, which is nice. If you are applying to conservatories, I agree with the other poster that it might not be the best idea to load up on AP’s in senior year. Your academic stats and test scores look fine, I would think.</p>
<p>Interlochen will help you a lot with all this, and some schools/conservatories will send reps to the school. You can visit some schools for the first time when you audition: it is tough to visit before applying, then for the audition, and then when you are accepted, so some rationing of visits is helpful.</p>
<p>Just fyi, my daughter applied to 4 conservatories and two colleges, and that was plenty. Audition time was very busy! (And you will be applying for both flute and composition, so you will be even busier.) She chose carefully, and it would seem that you will too.</p>
<p>I would definitely consider backing off on 4-5 AP’s. My son is a high school junior and took a very demanding courseload this year, AP’s and honors. He found it difficult to keep up with the school work and the music, and he prioritized music. His grades really suffered. He figures with auditions next year, it will be even more difficult, so he is only taking 1 AP. That is not to say it won’t help with admission to the more academically rigorous schools. But, it is a trade-off that you might want to think about before jumping into all of those AP classes.</p>
<p>Are you planning to apply as a composition major who will audition on Flute?</p>
<p>Or are you planning to apply as a flutist, who wants to also learn composition?</p>
<p>This makes a big difference in the process…</p>
<p>I think you may really be overdoing it with Interlochen and 5 AP classes and thinking you can audition for both flute and composition at 10+ schools. Most colleges have auditions beginning in late December and they run through late January/early February. It is very difficult to prepare and attend more than one a week and still get your high school class work done. I think almost everyone here has had significant weather or other delays getting to and from an audition. My son had to reschedule one due to snow and ended up doing a regional instead of an at-school audition and had to do it the day before another one. That was very tough. Many schools have only one audition day for composition, so you will need to research those before mapping out where you want to apply. </p>
<p>My son also explored both instrumental and composition programs and applied to some of each, but not both at the same school. The impression we got was that most schools frown on that. There are also some programs that have everyone audition on their instrument and enter as a perfomance major, and then you submit a composition portfolio in your first or second year for the composition major. </p>
<p>Preparing a composition portfolio is very demanding. If you really want to study composition at a top conservatory like NEC you will need to have a composition teacher, have your works performed and recorded by real musicians, and have scores that are professionally printed. This can be expensive in addition to the time it takes to write the music and find the musicians to play them. While many programs will tell you they will accept scores done with computer programs and digital recordings of your work, I think the top schools still want to hear and see real music. I know NYU requires you to play one of your compositions in your audition, so you will need to write something for flute if you haven’t already. I think it would be really difficult to do this and still put in the hours of practice needed for a flute major audition, but your mileage may vary. </p>
<p>We also found that many composition programs expect you to play piano fairly well. Traditionally most composers compose on piano. We are pretty sure our son did not get into one comp. program because he doesn’t compose on piano and plays it only a little. This school said nothing about piano in any of its materials or websites or audition prep stuff. Auditions for composition may also include pretty advanced theory tests and quizzes about composers and music.</p>
<p>^Actually, the OP seems to have the right background and will be in the right environment to manage a robust audition schedule by the sounds of it. But the fact that you’ll be coming from Interlochen likely makes the AP classes less necessary even at the schools with rigorous admits. Eg. you’d fall right in range at UMich based on your GPA (they now accept weighted) and SAT (you’d be in the mid 50th percentile). That would be strong enough to carry you if your performance/composition portfolio is highly competitive. I believe in all there’s only 8 students in composition.</p>
<p>It goes without saying that since you’ll BE in Michigan next fall, it would be worth taking a relatively short trip east to meet with the flute and comp faculty and sit in on a few classes in Ann Arbor to get a feel for that one (lots of people love the two key faculty from each discipline). Jacobs at Indianna (didn’t see that on your list but would be in league for flute and comp) isn’t a terrible drive from northwestern Michigan, nor is Oberlin. Another “area” school you may wish to check out (might be almost a reach academically – but you’re pretty solid) would be Northwestern. NU gets excited about a slightly higher SAT, but hey, it’s a talent-based admit and I feel you’d be still in range.</p>
<p>That’s a tour you could possibly make en route to Interlochen this fall, or during a break.</p>
<p>You asked for our experiences – our family is a bit of an odd case in that we’re in-state in Michigan, so UMich was a fiscal no-brainer, and at the same time my son’s first choice in his discipline, which is the rough equivalent of music technology (with some extra filmmaking involved and electronic composition). He does take classes from the comp faculty as well and is a fan. So our priorities involved a different emphasis than exclusively performance. In our case, the Clive Davis at Ticsh/NYU and Jacobs/Indianna were top choices…followed by Frost and Thornton, the latter two for which he did not audition/portfolio because he had early acceptance at UMich. McGill would also have been a strong selection in our case (and possibly in yours). </p>
<p>McSon absolutely loves his department, program, and school, but you will likely hear the same from most “invested” families 
There are many great programs and it really comes down to fit!</p>
<p>Best wishes in your search. I would expect good guidance at Interlochen.</p>
<p>(PS Re doing a tour en route to Interlochen, for example, you could start in Oberlin, then 2.5 hours to Ann Arbor, then 4.15 hrs. to Interlochen. Or if you started at IU Jacobs, then 6 hrs to Oberlin, etc.)</p>
<p>I agree about the work and stress involved in applying for composition, and even more so if combined with auditioning for flute (plus a lot of AP classes!).</p>
<p>Just to clarify: compositions do not have to be handwritten, and scores can be printed from Finale or other program. Oberlin does ask for one handwritten piece. Submissions can usually be Finale or other software/MP3’s, but it is encouraged (sometimes required, for at least one) to submit compositions played by real musicians, and to highlight your composing, they should be excellent, which means paying money, or participating in a program that involves excellent musicians in composers’ concerts. Interlochen should offer this.</p>
<p>I don’t agree that piano skills are a priority for auditions. OUr daughter did not run into this at all during her audiitons for composition. Theory classes involve piano skills, of course, but composition does not necessarily involve piano. My daughter got into great programs with minimal piano skills, and is surviving some tough theory classes. She does not use any instrument at all to compose. Everyone is different.</p>
<p>Composition scores can be printed with your printer from Finale or Sibelius, and a copy place can bind them for you. Make everything look nice, with covers for the pieces, nice labels on the CD cases etc, but the process does not require professional help.</p>
<p>Don’t worry too much about exams at auditions. They are generally for placement purposes. There are exceptions: the final interview at Juilliard, for instance, involves some grueling questions on music history and so on, and Oberlin really likes a lot of information on the application about your knowledge of music. </p>
<p>Anyone attending a year at Interlochen will be fine with the exams, I would think, but just so other people reading this don’t stress unnecessarily.</p>
<p>We all run into different circumstances so the info from others may be what they experienced. I don’t mean to contradict, only to reassure!</p>
<p>p.s. sorry about the double post: the second one was intended</p>
<p>mtpaper: From what I’ve researched, each school differs in what they allow…some allow an applicant to audition on both flute and composition, but I will have to decide which one I choose to major in (assuming I get in to both programs). NEC allows for a Major in Composition, but each Composition major must choose an instrument of study (flute, perfect for me). Other schools only allow one audition, so I must choose. Truthfully, I don’t mind which area I major in for my BM. And I can always take lessons on the side.</p>
<p>honestmom: I will definitely be mapping out audition dates, etc., thank you! May I ask why you came to the impression that schools frown on applying for both instrumental and compositional programs within the same school? Also, do you remember which program likes to have students enter as performance majors before switching to composition? Also, referring to NYU, I got the impression from their audition requirements that a composition major must submit 3 pieces (scores and recordings) and play 2 pieces on a major instrument…however, I don’t see that it has to be an original piece.
One last question: I compose on piano (I’ve never used a computer program), but I am no virtuoso. May I ask what school you think turned down your son for the piano issue? </p>
<p>Thank you for your wonderful advice!!! And best of luck to your son in his music.</p>
<p>I have never heard of any schools who prefer students to enter as performance majors then switch to composition. As for auditions on an instrument, it is never for an original composition - always the standard repertoire. You will not be expected to perform your own work. You may be including in your submission a recording of one of your compositions on which you are actually the performer - but that part is irrelevant to admission.
Are you studying composition privately right now at the same level as your flute study? Do you feel your strength is more as a flautist, or a composer? If I were you - I would apply either in my strength, or my passion. If you major in flute performance, you can always take composition courses, and may even be required to.</p>
<p>compmom: Thank you for your clarifications about submitting compositions. I have always hand-written my music. Hopefully, at Interlochen, I can upload them to Finale, Sibelius, etc. if necessary (or, pay someone to, haha…I have no clue what I’m doing on there). Also, I will gather some musicians, either at Brevard this summer, or at Interlochen next year, to play/record the music.
Thankfully my brother is a virtuoso violinist and can play my violin sonata when it is complete 
Interesting that your daughter did not run into piano problems during her auditions-may I ask where she applied/auditioned? Good for her!!!
Good to know about the Juilliard/Oberlin expectations on music theory/history-thankfully I have spent much time on those subjects, so I’m not too worried.
Thanks so much for taking the time to type up such involved responses, I truly appreciate it so much.
And congrats to all of you and your successful children!!</p>
<p>SpiritManager: Based on my own research of schools and their admission requirements, I too have never heard of schools requiring entering as a performer/switching to composition-but maybe someone else had a different experience! That also includes the expectation to perform an original work for your instrument-I have never written a work for solo flute, and don’t quite plan on it for some time.
I studied with a private composition teacher for some time, but didn’t see much success in our relationship. He would play/analyze my work (silently), and proceed to talk off on a tangent-we had some great discussions, but I didn’t gain much compositionally. I will hopefully take private lessons at Brevard this summer, and Interlochen next year. But really, I am self-taught and self-motivated. I have had very good feedback from wonderful musicians though (I wouldn’t name names on here, however). I am somewhat of an introverted composer though-meaning I rarely show people my music unless I feel it is complete to my liking, and since my musical language is always changing, I am either starting a new piece or chipping away at an old one. So, I hope to really complete at least 3 pieces before the fall, something I can confidently send to colleges. That was all sort of irrelevant though-to answer your question, I can’t really say if I feel stronger about my flute playing or composition. I have played flute in major competitions, summer festivals, and such. My passion is music-flute, composition, conducting, etc…I think it will be right for me to apply in both areas. And yes, I can definitely major in flute and take composition courses! My ultimate goal is to get a Masters in composition and conducting…so whether I major in composition for my BM or just take lessons, is fine with me. Thank you for helping me to clear up a few things in my head! Just wondering, are you a composer yourself?</p>