Chances of getting into UCSD, JHU, Columbia Neuroscience Programs

Graduate School
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<p>Hello Everyone. I'm a student from India, and I'm currently in the third and final year of BSc studies. I am interested in pursuing a career in Neuroscience. I contacted people at some schools and only a few ones, fortunately or unfortunately, the top ones said they'd accept a 3-year BS - UCSD, Yale, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, MIT and Cornell. </p>

<p>By the time I got the confirmation of the 3-year BSc, I had only two weeks to go for the deadline, and one week before I could start applications, so effectively I had only a week to prepare for the GRE. I landed up with Q-700 and V-550. I haven't gotten my analytical scores yet. I know 1250 is low, but did have only a week of preparation time before deadlines ended.</p>

<p>We dont' get GPAs at my university. We score marks out of 100 in examinations and we're awarded aggregate percentages. Passing percentage is 40% and above 60% is regarded as First Class. I average around 77% in the first 5 semesters of my BSc (that'd be a GPA of around 4.7 on 5 if my registrar is to be believed). In terms of grades, I've been straight As and A+ throughout. </p>

<p>I did my summer internship at a big lab, Defence Institute of Psychological Research. I've been involved with their research teams for 8 months now. I'm pursuing an original research project that looks into the neural correlates of deceptive ability in human beings. I've designed a few paradigms for use in fMRI and the experiments are underway. We will be conducting a few fPET experiments too. A publication as shared first author is under preparation. My meta-analytical review paper is ready but I haven't yet submitted it for publication; I'm holding it off till I get all the experimental results. </p>

<p>I also formulated a research project in neurobiology and it has been accepted at NIMHANS, India's biggest Neuroscience lab.</p>

<p>I have LOADS of prizes and certificates in extra-curriculars, including national level child scientist awards etc. My extra-curricular prizes have been in diverse fields. I have quite some community service experience too. </p>

<p>My letters of recommendation are great, one coming from my guide in the deception project who's the director of the institute, an emeritus professor at an IIT and an Advisor to the President. He is on the panels of some cognitive science committees in the USA. </p>

<p>Sadly, research opportunities for undergrads in India are very very meager. Most labs prefer people who're doing an MSc degree (in India, an MSc is an absolute requirement to get into a PhD program). We dont' have awards for summer training or research internships etc. Undergraduate colleges are far removed from the University campuses and no research happens at undergrad colleges.</p>

<p>The UCSD grad counsellor told me my SoP was very engaging and enjoyable to read and that he was able to get a clear picture of me as a person and my aims.</p>

<p>With all this, what are my chances? Any idea? I wish I could upload my CV and SoP somwhere.</p>

<p>Oh, and I was a Rhodes hopeful form my country this year. Lost out at the interviews, since only 5 are selected from the whole of India. Does that count?</p>

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<p>I am surprised to hear that there are schools that will accept a 3 year BS. I know a lot of them don't like that. Your profile in a nutshell- 8 months of research experience, the equivalent of a 3.7 GPA through 5 semesters, GRE scores of 700q and 550v. Surely you have an interesting background and all of the awards that are relevant to neuroscience are great. I don't know exactly how the competition works among internationals but if you had these stats as a domestic student, it would be a tossup.</p>

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<p>This post may not be very helpful but I admire how you have been very proactive about research considering that few opportunities are available to undergrads in India. You basically have to create opportunities for yourself which you have done. It is always difficult to predict admission results though, so hope for the best.
In the worst case scenario, you will have to reapply which you can do after another year of research in India, which seems to be quite an engaging and involved experience in your case so it is actually quite a great option. Have you considered Indian MSc programs? How long are the MSc programs in NCBS and NBRC ? Since you are eager to start a PhD soon,I might suggest looking at one-year MS neuroscience programs in the US like Brandeis and Northwestern. Deadlines might not have passed since faculty usually look at PHD applications before getting to MS applications in these programs from what I have heard in the past. You might want to contact them and see what they say. Funding issues will arise though.Another way to strengthen your application might be to get research experience in the US although that might prove to be expensive too, in terms of living costs.Many medical students manage to find relatives to stay with for doing an observership, perhaps you have contacts you can stay with. All these are options IN CASE you dont get in right now. I hope you do! best luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks, belevitt and theory for your responses :-).</p>

<p>@ belevitt - </p>

<p>I was quite surprised too. They said that I'd have to take a few extra courses in the first semester to cover up for the want of a 4-year BS. They usually take people from England and EU countries which have converted to the Bologna system, but they don't usually accept a 3-year BS from India or Pakistan. I gave them details of my BS; for instance, in my college, we do around 1800 hours of coursework through the 3 years. I don't think a 4-year US BS covers that much!!! And this is just lecture and lab hours, not even counting the hours for fieldwork and assignments and the undergraduate thesis (which has been introduced only at my college).
Thanks for the encouragement :-). Btw, I didn't quite get what you meant by a 'tossup'. Sorry, not used to US Slangs :D</p>

<p>@ theory - </p>

<p>Thanks for the kind words :-). I've always been very passionate about research since my father's a highly-cited cancer biologist; he's been my inspiration throughout.
NCBS and NBRC don't award a stand-alone MSc. They have the integrated MSc-PhD options and NCBS is purely biological and biomedical sciences. I didn't write their entrance exam because of that. They do great work though. NBRC's MSc-PhD program is 5 years and I am really not keen on doing a PhD in India. Having seen how even a top lab like my dad's struggles with funds and lack of work ethics (dad and his students are the only ones who stay on till late night and work!), and the lack of a strong lab in cognitive science, I would prefer a US or a UK PhD. Moreover, I've always idolized Dr V S Ramachandran at UCSD, and I would love to study under him. </p>

<p>Thanks for the information about the 1-year MS programs!! I will certainly apply. But I cannot afford spend a penny out of mine or my family's pocket for my education outside. I don't know how tough it is to secure funding for a 1-year MS program with those GRE scores. But I'll certainly contact them. I do have relatives in the US but they're all either in New England area or around Indianapolis. Nowhere near UCSD.</p>

<p>Thanks for the wishes :-).</p>

<p>Is there a way I can upload my CV, SoP, Grades sheet, and sample of my scientific work here so that someone can evaluate it better?</p>

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<p>Oh and I am also considering two other options.</p>

<p>1) Get into a smaller school and then apply for transfer to a bigger grad school, one of my choice. I'm applying to Uni of Pittsburgh as a fall-back. Could you suggest another one?</p>

<p>2) I could do a 1.5 years MSc in Germany and a 3-year PhD in one of their Max Planck Institutes. I've heard that the MPI of Human Brain and Cognitive Sciences at Leipzig is excellent. They're comprehensive and cover the entire gamut of neuroscience research. Even the MPI of Biological Cybernetics at Tuebingen and MPI of Brain Research at Frankfurt is supposed to be excellent. I could then come to the US for a post-doctoral fellowship at UCSD or Columbia or one of the places of my choice. Is a German PhD from a Max Planck Institute respected in the US? I'm quite partial to this excellent MSc in Experimental and Clinical Sciences at the University of Regensburg. They have collaborations with places like Emory and UCSD and lots of Max Planck Institutes and they're a part of the FENS.</p>

<p>°°°°International</a> Master 's Programme in Experimental & Clinical Neurosciences °°°°</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Is there a way I can upload my CV, SoP, Grades sheet, and sample of my scientific work here so that someone can evaluate it better?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't think it's a good idea to upload anything that can be plagiarized by someone else such as a SoP. I don't have anything else to add, except to respond to this comment:</p>

<p>
[quote]
But I cannot afford spend a penny out of mine or my family's pocket for my education outside. I don't know how tough it is to secure funding for a 1-year MS program with those GRE scores.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's definitely NOT guaranteed to get funding for an MS, but I think you're competitive enough that you don't need to risk applying to the (easier to get into) MS programs and can go for a PhD. Your GRE scores are slightly below average for the schools you listed, but honestly your ability to write English is very good for a non-native speaker so I think your SoP will suggest what the scores do not.</p>

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<p>Tossup refers to something being neither sure nor unsure. 1800 hours in 3 years works out to 300 hours per semester. A semester is 15 weeks. 20 hours per week between lab, lecture and section. That sounds pretty familiar.</p>

<p>If it were me, I would sooner sacrifice the prestige and quality of my grad school than to do a masters followed by a Phd. I say this because a masters costs money, doesn't pay stipend and carries few benefits. Besides, even people who can't cut it in a Phd get a masters degree out of the deal. It's science's booby prize.</p>

<p>If last year was any indication, there will certainly be less desirable grad schools sending out mass emails this spring trying to recruit students. It's an "oops, we didn't get enough good applicants" email and we will likely all receive them. If your first round doesn't go well, that is something to keep in mind. And besides, when youre coming from the borderlands of India and Pakistan, the crime of Detroit or the humidity of Little Rock or the overt racism of Birmingham probably won't seem quite so bad.</p>

<p>So I disagree with gthopeful about plagiarism being a big deal among Phd aspirants in the sciences. There are communities on live journal that cater to this. Places where you can upload your personal statement and have other people review and comment.</p>

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<p>@ gthopeful</p>

<p>Thanks :-). I've been learning English since i was a little kid. In my SoP, I've added a paragraph on why I couldn't get a good GRE score...the one week deadline and late confirmation of the acceptance of a 3-year BS and all that. I hope they look at it in that light and not think I'm just giving excuses for incompetence or some such.</p>

<p>@ belevitt</p>

<p>I'm sending a detailed break-down of the course structure here including lab & lecture hours, evaluation schemes etc to the Unis. That is integrated with course names and the grades I obtained in them. I think they look good against a string of As and A+s :D. I hope that does the trick for me.
I am very surprised to hear that that's how the US looks at Master's degrees. In India and most of Europe, an MSc is a necessary requirement before pursuing a PhD. In Indian undergraduate colleges, you can teach with an MSc degree. If you've passed an exam called the NET, with just an MSc degree, you can even teach post-graduate students (i.e. students pursuing an MSc).
I would definitely not waste time and money doing an MS in the US and then go on to do a PhD. Like I said, if I don't get into a university of my choice for a PhD program, I'll go to Germany or England and do an MSc and a PhD at a good place. I was looking at the current research at the MPI for Human Brain and Cognitive Sciences at Leipzig and found them to be at par with what the US Universities do.
How do you sign up to receive that round of emails that you described, from less desirable graduate schools?
Is Pittsburgh ok to keep as a fall-back option or should I choose an even lesser school?</p>

<p>Thanks for all the responses :-)</p>

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<p>I am not sure i would include that paragraph about your GRE score, the fact that you only took a week to study is not an impressive excuse, I think I would not bring attention to it and let your other accomplishments speak for themselves.</p>

<p>Just having read peoples questions on this board I feel like i have heard every excuse in the book for why people's GPA/SAT/GRE/MCAT etc are lower than they should be, I cannot imagine all the stories and admissions committee has heard! You met the 1200 unspoken lower limit, so you are 'okay' there. I would not bother bringing attention to something that is not even a real negative, it is just okay, not amazing. I think they must get tired of hearing every one's excuses ;)</p>

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<p>@ somemom</p>

<p>Thanks for the response! :-)</p>

<p>This is actually how I've put it in the SoP - </p>

<p>I got the confirmation of acceptance of a 3-year BSc degree by UCSD very recently. By that time, there were no slots open in my town, Bangalore, to take the GRE. Soon after that, end-semester college examinations followed, following which I spent ten days in Delhi conducting experiments for the deception work. Luckily, I got a November 25th date in Chennai to take the GRE. I had 7-8 days left for the exam. I pulled all-nighters to prepare myself as best as I could. However, I could not achieve the 1400 target that I had set for myself. I ended up with 1250, which I think was reasonable, given that I had only a week to prepare. I wish I had enough time to practice the mathematical tricks and short-cuts; I’m at ease with the mathematics in the GRE, however I had to solve them the traditional way resulting in precious loss of time. Even though I read extensively, there was no way I could remember the entire 3,500 high-frequency world list recommended by various books. I truly believe in the non-memory based practical approach to learning that the great Dr Richard Feynman had mused upon in his book, ‘Surely you’re joking Mr Feynman’, citing his experience with students in Brazil. I thrive on practical problems that require long contemplation and analyses where time is at hand. Thinking without distractions is essential to scientific working, as Lord Rutherford had once exclaimed to one of his graduate students who proudly told him that he worked all day and night in the lab, “But then, when do you think?”
Balancing the preparations for external examinations like the GRE and the college examinations is tough due to the course load in an autonomous institution like mine and the added research activities that I pursue. Getting a first class score in the examinations, conducting the deception experiments and managing a 1250 score in the GRE in a span of one month reflect my determination to try and make the best out of every situation.</p>

<p>If this isn't ok, I'll take it out and send them a fresh copy</p>

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<p>My recommendation to you, abhi_dkth31, would be to not mention your GRE score at all. Instead use your SOP as an opportunity to showcase your talents and achievements. It's not a place to make excuses. Same goes if you have a bad grade or two on your transcript.</p>

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<p>@ bernardzhu</p>

<p>Thanks, I will edit my SoP and send it today itself. But what will the admissions committee think if they see a 1250 score and then they see a list of achievements and good grades? There must be a way to explain the disparity.</p>

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<p>It is up to them to think about the disparity. If the adcom is not interested in you, your sop will not be read. And remember the adcom's time is precious. Do you think they will pause a long time thinking what had happened to your bad gre score, or reading about your gre preparation in your sop? It will not do any good to your application. It is better in your sop to say that you have strong research intentions, are self-motivated, independent, and committed.</p>

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<p>@ bernardzhu</p>

<p>Thanks. I've cut that part out and put in a better paragraph about independent thinking skills etc in that.</p>

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<p>If I don't get an interview call from any of these places, apart from getting more research experience and a better GRE score, what else can I do to buff up my application and make it look better?</p>

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<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I am a final year electrical engineering student from INDIA. I developed a keen interest in neuroscience in my first year of engineering. I have been working on a computational neuroscience project from my second year onwards at an undergraduate research organisation in my home town Chennai. I have two international papers to my name. I presented these posters at the INCF 2010 at Kobe, Japan. </p>

<p>I know that the idea I am working on is really original, as the feedback from the scientists at the INCF was very positive. The conference was attended by scientists from top Universities such as UCSD, MIT, Karolinska, Harvard. </p>

<p>My GRE scores are 800Q, 590V, 4A. My academic percentage is 77%. 77% in my university is not a university topping rank but it is an academically competitive grade. </p>

<p>My questions are similar to yours. What are my chances and if I dont get anything what should I do and what should I do to improve my profile?</p>

<p>And what are you doing now?</p>

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<p>If I have a 4.1 and got a 1250 0n my sat can i get accepted to UC Sandiego</p>