Chances? Plus: A General Question on Economics

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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<p>Hi, I'm a junior in Philadelphia, PA, and if everything being said about U of C is true (or mostly true), then it seems like the perfect college. The only trouble now is (lol) getting in. I would appreciate any feedback from anyone, as I hear (or read, rather) that admissions chances can be quite difficult to describe at times. At any rate, here are my stats:</p>

<p>Gender: Male
Ethnicity: White
Location: PA
High Shool: magnet, best public in the city of Philadelphia, competitiveness rating of 8.5 to 9 (on a scale of 1-10), 99% go on to college
Intended Major: Economics? (more on this later) **
Hooks: none come to mind
Tidbits: I would apply EA</p>

<p>GPA: 4.05 (weighted, cumulative 9th-11th grades)
Rank: 40/540 (~7%)
SAT Reasoning: Math = 760, Critical Reading = 700, Writing = 760, Total = 1460 or 2220
SAT Subjects: Math I = 760, Math II = 750, Physics = 700
ACT: will be taken on April 4th, most likely a score of 32 to 34
Course Load: several honors, only 3 AP's (this will be explained at the bottom)*</p>

<p>School E.C.'s / Awards: none worth mentioning beyond the Peer Mentor program (tutoring), and the National Honor Society</p>

<p>Community Service: 50-60 hours per school year helping in an after-school program for kids ages 5-12 (over 150 hours by the end of this year, ~200 by HS graduation)</p>

<p>Work Experience: Acme employee since June '08 (12-16 hours per week during school, much more in the summer)</p>

<p>Recommendations: none yet, but I am sure they will be great; I am well-liked by teachers</p>

<p>Essays: excellent writing skills, and considering the importance, I think I can do enough here to maybe make up for any lack of subjectivity. (I am, indeed, much more well-rounded an individual than my transcript may suggest).</p>

<ul>
<li>At my high school, even the "standard" classes are weighted. (I do not know how common this is, but it may give you an idea of the academic nature). Getting amazing grades is hard, to say the least. Therefore, students here are more accustomed to take AP's in courses that they excel in, or those that are related to their intended major. For example, the 3 AP's I will have are: Physics B, Statistics, and Calculus AB (sort of tells you what types of classes interest me). However, there are kids who have taken the most rigorous load possible. This may explain why my GPA of more than 4 barely cracked the top 40. Just thought I might add that, before anyone goes and says "You darn kids, always thinkin' you can get into top schools without 10 AP classes."</li>
</ul>

<p>** Anyway, sorry for the length of this post, but this brings me to the second part: my general question. Above, I mentioned my intended major was economics. What I am wondering is if a degree in economics can be a substitute for a business degree. I want to, after a few years of work experience, go to a top grad school to get an MBA (most likely in Finance). In anyone's opinion, would majoring in economics at a school like U of C be more beneficial to me than getting a finance degree at a lesser-known college? Upon applying to a grad school for finance, will the lack of a finance degree damper my chances?</p>

<p>Thank you for taking the time to read this, and any chances/feedback/answers will be greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>bump.. no one?</p>

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<p>Please, sorry to be a pest, but I need something. Anything...</p>

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<p>A couple things:</p>

<p>A business degree is by no means a prerequisite to enter the business world. Every school in the US News top 10, with the exception of Penn does not grant a business degree to undergrads.</p>

<p>An Econ degree from the U of C is apparently a top 5 marketable degree - meaning it would be better for you from a career perspective standpoint than going to Michigan - Ross or NYU - Stern.</p>

<p>It probably helps your chances of getting an MBA.</p>

<p>On another note - dude, your in high school. An MBA is about 10 years away for you, don't worry about it yet.</p>

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<p>Ok, well, thank you akx06. Let me just point out that I do not want to be an economist, as my career at least. I want to go into corporate finance as soon as possible, after getting my MBA. Yes, I realize that is a long way off, but I just wanted to know if the specifics (economics) of my undergrad degree will have significant bearing on my graduate (finance) career. I appreciate your comment, because I would not have thought an economics degree from U of C to be more marketable than a business degree from Stern. I guess what I'm most concerned with is: what will I be doing with an econ degree from the time I get out of college to the time I apply for grad school (about 5 years or so)? On another note: can anyone chance me? Because some of this may become irrelevant if I do not get into Chicago.</p>

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<p>No idea how to chance people. Although, my feeling is that someone who is already this focused on getting into finance - U of C might not be the best place for you.</p>

<p>Again, like I said, most top schools don't have business degrees. You can take your Econ degree and become an investment banker, a consultant, a trader, join a hedge fund, work as a marketer, join the Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc etc</p>

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<p>So working with my econ degree for 4-5 years, then going for an MBA in finance and switching to the corporate sector would not be something realistic?</p>

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<p>It's entirely realistic...I don't think you have a very good understanding of what your talking about - in terms of jobs, MBAs and post MBA opportunities.</p>

<p>I suggest you begin doing you homework on this. "Corporate Sector" doesn't make any sense. The jobs MBAs get are typically the same ones UGs from top schools get but 1 level higher on the food chain.</p>

<p>How exactly did you figure this was unrealistic?</p>

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<p>Ok, I'm sorry I ever made this thread. Because clearly I am oblivious to the topic at hand. The point I was trying to emphasize was that I would want to SWITCH FOCUSES from economics as an undergrad and entry-level worker to finance as a graduate student. You seem to suggest that this would be very realistic. You stated that a U of C economics degree would be more marketable than most business degrees, but you then contradicted yourself by saying that Chicago would not be a good place for me. My intent on going into finance should not have had an impact on my fit at U of C, according to the great possibility of me switching focuses. And, the "corporate sector" as I referred to it, simply meant that I want to work for a specific company: examples would include Samsung, Wal-Mart, Ford, Cisco, Microsoft, Google, Starbucks, T-Mobile, etc. (i.e. - not a financial services firm that deals with many different clients). Was I really that unclear? Do I really have no knowledge about the things I post? I better just let this thread sink to the bottom, so I can make a real and constructive chances thread.</p>

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<p>I didn't mean to irk you - I just wanted to make some points.</p>

<p>Again, what you major in as an undergrad does not limit/control your career options. I know a kid who majored in South Asian Lang and Civ, interned at a major Wall Street Bank and joined a top 3 Management Consultant firm full time.</p>

<p>My point about U of C not being a good fit - if you are majoring in Econ so you can join finance, it makes it far more difficult to do well. Many Econ majors struggle with certain classes and lose interest and switch their major late - after it's done damage to their GPA. It is for this reason that if you are solely intent on pursuing finance, you should be looking at finance oriented programs. </p>

<p>You have to like Econ - knowing you want Econ without really taking any Econ is probably a sure fire bet that someone doesn't really know if they like it. Plus, Econ here is more math heavy than any of the peers schools, including MIT.</p>

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<p>I'm pleased to see someone from Masterman :) taking an interest in Chicago; it hasn't been all that popular with Ivy-obsessed public school students around there.</p>

<p>Shane, what you are not quite getting is that Chicago vs. Wharton/Ross/Stern represent two very different theories of education. Undergraduate business programs try to provide their students with a leg up in the business world by giving them a well-rounded education through the lens of business applications, so that everything students learn is grounded in practical business issues. Students graduate with good general skills and a familiarity with how those skills get used in the real world. Chicago wants students to get both a solid background in core topics and depth in a major, but it deliberated eschews real-world applications for a theoretical, analytic intellectual focus. The idea is that if a student has good theoretical and analytical skills, he or she will be able to learn what's necessary in a wide variety of jobs, and fill in the practical gaps him- or herself.</p>

<p>Both approaches work. People coming out of college -- even out of a business program -- aren't capable of doing non-entry-level jobs in an actual business without further training and experience. The trick is convincing employers that you have potential, interest, good work skills, and the ability to learn. You can do that coming out of a business program, but you can do that coming out of a non-business program, too.</p>

<p>How does this relate to business school? Business school is advanced graduate training for focused business applications. Most of the people there have had some significant employment or entrepreneurial experience, know what the business world is like on a day-to-day basis, and know how they would like to fit into it. Elite business schools really don't care what you studied as an undergraduate -- if anything, they probably prefer that you not have studied business, but it's not that big a deal. They care about your experience, intelligence, focus, and leadership skills as demonstrated in the real world (and the classroom, too). If you ultimately want to get a finance MBA, your first step really is to hone your analytical and math skills, and put yourself in a position to get an entry-level job in the banking/investment banking/accounting world, from which you would apply to an MBA program. (Or, start your own wildly successful business, and watch it crash and burn sensationally because you don't understand finance. That would be an EXCELLENT ticket into business school.)</p>

<p>Economics is something that almost everyone in business needs to know a little about. But an economics major, especially at Chicago, involves learning a lot about it, including all sorts of things that have no significant real-world business use, beyond what you can glean from reading the Wall St. Journal. Finance occupies one little corner of economics, one that is not terribly respected by economists -- but in the real world law and accounting rules have as much or more to do with finance than economics does. An economics major is excellent preparation for an ultimate career in finance, because it ensures excellent analytic and math skills, but it's not the only way to acquire the analytic and math skills you need.</p>

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<p>I meant to add this:</p>

<p>Your grades and test scores are fine, working at Acme is fine, you don't need to obsess about ECs. But it probably makes sense for you to be more aggressive in signing up to take APs in 12th grade. Right now, I doubt your GC will be willing to check the box that says you have taken the most challenging curriculum, because you haven't quite. But you are not far off, and if you have 4 next year, you probably do get that box checked. My sense is that Chicago really cares about whether you are an academically ambitious student. You don't NEED to have the most challenging curriculum, if you have gone above and beyond in some focused area. But if you haven't done that, you really want to show that you are up for pushing yourself.</p>

<p>And, as you know if you have read anything here, Chicago cares most about your essays. So make certain you think about how to do great ones.</p>

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<p>Thanks, JHS, for all the great info. I am considering taking courses at LaSalle University next year, which I think are better than just AP's. I will have actual college experience (well, at least somewhat) before leaving high school. I think I really can write some great essays as well. I will be happy to just get into U of C, and I feel like I might be able to let my career work itself out as I go along.</p>

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<p>Negative.</p>

<p>College courses at run of the mill colleges do not trump AP courses, and certainly are not worth the cost. Obviously, things like Stanford EPGY, Harvard Extension, Penn General Studies’ high school programs, etc. are a different story. </p>

<p>If anything, they can turn into an administrative nightmare if you are for some reason told you cannot duplicate credit (unlikely at the U of C, but strictly monitored at other schools).</p>

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<p>Sorry if this was not clear, but I was referring to a dual enrollment program - meaning: free. My HS has a partnership with LaSalle and a select group of students are permitted to take a few "allowed" courses at the college (while fulfilling graduation requirements at the high school).</p>

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<p>I would still avoid that if your high school has a good AP program. It’s just not worth trying to deal with the cultural and bureaucratic shift. I mean, if you are taking say six subjects in high school, and then are told one full semester college class can substitute on a 1:! basis for graduation requirements, that is really raw deal. How many college students take six courses a term (Ben Bolger aside)? Almost none. Effectively, you would banking on the fact that LaSalle courses are not that challenging, which could be a false assumption from a simple time management perspective.</p>

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<p>uchicagoalum: The dual enrollment program the OP is talking about is a pretty well-trodden path, the administrative bugs are fully worked out, and the workload of the courses fairly well understood. It's also literally next door to the high school -- for some classes you don't even have to cross a street.</p>

<p>That said, I share your dubiousness about it. Both the teachers and the students in most of the AP classes at the high school are probably better than their counterparts at LaSalle.</p>