<p>Hi everyone,
This is my first post. Sorry I bet this is a repetitive post but I appreciate whatever help you guys can provide.</p>
<p>I'm applying for a M.S. in Civil Engineering at UCI, UCLA, USC, and Stanford.</p>
<p>I will be graduating from UCLA this year with a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering. I currently have about a 3.2 GPA.</p>
<p>My GRE was 770math/710verbal.</p>
<p>I have no research experience. I've completed 2 consecutive summer internships at a Fortune 500 company. I also have a few other extracurriculars but I won't bother listing them here. I have 2 good letters of recommendation, and the third one is probably going to be a bit bland I'm guessing...</p>
<p>What do you guys think? Thanks for all your help.</p>
<p>Your GPA is very low. Some schools have cutoffs and won't even consider your application below a certain level. (Sometimes it's as high as 3.5) Stanford is a huge reach for you.</p>
<p>On the other hand, your GRE is excellent. This combined with such a low GPA may give the admissions committees the impression that you are very intelligent but just downright lazy. You should anticipate this and address it in your personal statement.</p>
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how do you suggest that i address my low gpa/high GRE in my personal statement though?
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<p>What would you say if someone at one of the schools flat out asked you, "Your GRE score tells me you are well above average in intelligence and should have no problem coming out at the top of your class. Why then, is your GPA so low?"</p>
<p>Trust me, they will be asking this to themselves! Did you party too much, or what? If there was another, better, reason, then obviously just give that. I'm not saying to literally come out and say that your grades were bad and then defend it, but rather just paint the picture that would make them understand by inference.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, you simply partied too much or slacked off, don't bluntly say that in your essay (of course!). But rather give something like you had an epiphany during senior year that made you want to pursue graduate studies.... And now you are so excited to work hard and put your talents to good use. Clearly, you can say all of this in a cheesy way or do it subtly and effectively. All that will depend on you and your writing abilities.</p>
<p>Engineering programs are known for their grade deflation and a 3.2 in Engineering is considered a hard earned grade. I cannot imagine getting straight A's in thermodynamics, mechanics and any of the upper level physics courses required. </p>
<p>My cousin has a 3.1 and he has already received early decision acceptance into UMASS Lowell.</p>
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Engineering programs are known for their grade deflation and a 3.2 in Engineering is considered a hard earned grade. I cannot imagine getting straight A's in thermodynamics, mechanics and any of the upper level physics courses required.
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<p>This is what they say, but I just don't buy it. Georgia tech, for example, has a 3.5 cutoff for their phd program and 3.25 for MS. I haven't even checked MIT. Also, I'm at a top 15 university, electrical engineering, and I feel slightly embarrassed with myself that my graduating GPA is 3.67. I know I could have gotten a 3.8 or 3.9 if I worked harder. I'm not a natural math whiz either... It was mostly hard work. Every B or B+ I got, I can pinpoint where laziness was the cause of my grade. If grdschoolhopeful had a 770/710 GRE, he/she clearly could have had a MUCH higher GPA. If his/her GRE score was closer to average, and it was paired with that 3.2 gpa, than I would say the grades might have been hard earned. But with that GRE I can only conclude that laziness or excessive partying was involved. </p>
<p>But nonetheless, I still think grdschoolhopeful will get into a handful of those schools. Just not Stanford. :) Unless a great story is involved.</p>
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Engineering programs are known for their grade deflation and a 3.2 in Engineering is considered a hard earned grade.
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<p>I'm not sure about "deflation", but you're right many engineering schools do not inflate grades as is common in other disciplines. For the most part, the B/C line is still "average". A 3.2 is certainly respectable considering most companies ask for a 3.0, but I suppose the argument is that grad students are supposed to be the more academic-minded people in their classes. It's impossible to tell how hard-earned a 3.2 is when the OP didn't mention where he goes to school. A 3.2 at Florida where I went to undergrad is below average, whereas at a place like Texas it might be well above average.</p>
<p>Realize that cutoffs are not generally the point where they seriously look at your application. Cutoffs are set low to allow programs to offer students with low GRE scores or GPAs but other amazing qualifications (i.e., publications, presentations, son of the dean -- err...., etc.) to still be allowed in despite their low GRE or low GPA. Just barely being above the cutoff simply gets you a quick glance over the application to see if there is anything outstanding that might merit a second glance before they file your application away in the little round file next to the desk.
What you ought to do is mind out what the average accepted student's GPA is. If your GPA is more than .25 or so below that, you probably don't stand a chance and may want to save your application money or apply elsewhere instead. (Unless you have other qualifications you haven't mentioned. Your GRE is excellent but with such low grades, the GRE score looks like more of a mistake or a fluke in the middle of an otherwise quite mediocre application.)</p>
<p>I am glad to hear this grade inflation/deflation topic come up. When I graduated from college, I was under the impression that my 3.3 was pretty good. It was compared favorably to the gpas of most of my classmates and to the department in general. It wasn't until I began looking at grad schools that I found out that this is actually quite low and there are places where half the student population has higher gpas than I did.</p>
<p>Well Belevitt- IMHO- the average GPA of folks on here is higher than usual. This could be due to the fact that subscribers to grad school forums take their academics a little more seriously than most folks. </p>
<p>The US higher ed system is notorious for its lack of regulation. I know of many professors who shower their students with A's, while others in the same field have very structured grading policies.</p>
<p>sigh its kinda depressing what you guys are saying. i didnt know my GPA was so awful and an application-killer. And to BattleFrog -- know that I actually do not party much at all nor am i particularly lazy. i actually try really hard for my classes but these damn ucla engineering classes keep PWNING me every quarter. the reason might actually be because i generally occupy myself with some other extracurriculars that can be time consuming and distracting.....but i assume other ppl are in the same boat? ultimately though, i actually do try my hardest in my classes, but with the curves and everything, it's difficult for me to get good grades. like, in retrospect, theres not much i would change about my study habits for the past 3 years cause i dont think i could have performed any better in my classes lol. to be honest, i only got my "high" GRE score simply because i took a bunch of practice tests beforehand and so i got good at doing the tests. just curious what school do you go to BattleFrog?</p>
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the reason might actually be because i generally occupy myself with some other extracurriculars that can be time consuming and distracting.....but i assume other ppl are in the same boat?
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<p>If you can show how important your ECs were to you, you might mitigate the effect of your lower GPA. </p>
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ultimately though, i actually do try my hardest in my classes, but with the curves and everything, it's difficult for me to get good grades. like, in retrospect, theres not much i would change about my study habits for the past 3 years cause i dont think i could have performed any better in my classes lol.
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<p>Well, that's good to hear. If you did your best, I can't fault you for that! If your statement of purpose reflects that you always try hard and that you will have more time to focus on your studies without the undergrad ECs, that will reflect positively on you. If you really seem like someone who would really enjoy graduate studies, then your chances go way up.</p>
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to be honest, i only got my "high" GRE score simply because i took a bunch of practice tests beforehand and so i got good at doing the tests.
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<p>Everyone does this. To get the scores you did, you have to be well above average in intelligence. I know people who struggle studying for months only to break 1100.</p>
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just curious what school do you go to BattleFrog?
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<p>I went to Northwestern. I'm finished now. The grading might be harder at UCLA, who knows. BTW, I didn't mean to be hard on you or anything. I was just giving you the impression I got from seeing your numbers. Just goes to show that the numbers don't say everything and the personal statement is very important. Also, definitely don't apologize for your GPA if you think it was well earned. Just go with what rings true.</p>
<p>I'm at stanford civil engineering now. My peers (for the most part) are not as amazing as outsiders might think (except for the smartest ones). Stanford usually admits a bunch to the masters program as a cash cow and funds only a handful (the brightest students) with the expection that they will do meaningful research and maybe go on to a Ph.D.. There is a misconception out there that stanford grad students are all brilliant. While your chances aren't high, they might not be as low as you think.</p>
<p>battlefrog, its interesting since the sample american engineering essay they have on there is for the structures program at stanford even though he doesn't explicitly mention it..=). Seems kind of mundane to me though.</p>
<p>Yeah, most of them aren't examples of brilliant prose, but I think what they have in common is that they leave no doubt that the applicants really want to do research/study and are not simply interested in a degree for the sake of having a degree.</p>
<p>Did you see #4.4? Sheesh... Some of these guys are downright geniuses.</p>
<p>I've met one IMO and one IPO gold winner here. They are beyond a doubt brilliant. Not surprising that guy was admitted at harvard,mit,princeton,stanford,berkeley, etc..</p>