Chances: Top-tier IR MA program

Graduate School
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<p>I was wondering if someone could give me some insight into my chances for getting into a top-tier IR program (SAIS/SFS/SIPA/etc.). I am thinking of applying this coming fall (to enter in Fall 2012). </p>

<p>Here are my stats:</p>

<p>GPA: 3.97, graduated from Brown
GRE: 590 V/670 Q/4.5 W
Languages: French (fluent), Chinese (fluent), Persian (basic)</p>

<p>Work/International experience:
Studied abroad in France for a semester
Studied abroad in China studying Chinese for a semester
Interned for a summer at US Embassy in Kinshasa, DRC
1 year abroad teaching English in rural China
1 year abroad working for a small NGO in China</p>

<p>Other: Will have completed one-year Hopkins-Nanjing certificate program</p>

<p>I'm aware my GRE scores aren't great but it is unlikely I will retake it before I apply. </p>

<p>Thoughts? I appreciate any insights at all, thanks!</p>

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<p>You have a super chance at all these schools great great scores and great credentials i would be shocked if you came away empty handed but personally as a Hopkins student in china who knows the Nanjing program and it’s students the language demands on it are a joke. You should have spent your money on iup instead would have been more bang for
the buck.</p>

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<p>diantou,</p>

<p>You have a good shot, but your V score is low enough to impact you unless you are a non-native. The W is also a bit low, but assuming non-native, it would be fine.</p>

<p>Otherwise, you have a good shot at each program-- your Chinese will help a great deal, since Chinese is en vogue these days.</p>

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<p>Hi, thanks for the response and I appreciate the candor. Just to clarify, I am a native English speaker, but I struggle with standardized tests, which is part of the reason why I am reticent to take the GRE again to try to improve my score. I think I will just have to accept it as a weak part of my application. </p>

<p>Another unrelated question I have is, do you think doing the SAIS-Nanjing certificate program will improve my chances or give me a leg up in being admitted to SAIS in DC? I’m sure this question has been asked repeatedly, but I can’t seem to find a clear answer. This isn’t my motivation for wanting to do the program, of course, but I’m still wondering if it would be the case. </p>

<p>Thanks a lot!</p>

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<p>Yes if you were a chinese national to a lesser extent yes if not…from what I know and hear the courses are more rigorous for the Chinese nationals cause its standardized for english, either sick or swim. Because the HSK is not a very good tell of someone’s Chinese level there is a huge range in the level of students there which makes it difficult to really ascertain whats really going on. Its still a good certification to have but when Daniels and the head of HNC came to Beijing they were discussing changing admissions standards to a more rigorous level do to this problem AKA HSK level 8 for old HSK or HSK 6 for new HSK. But its smart you are applying for another degree. The people I’ve met here in Beijing that recently graduated from the MA or certificate are having very very hard times finding good jobs. For some bizarre reason HNC has lost a lot of respect and credibility and we don’t know why.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input, BlueJayBJ. I’m aware that the language requirements for HNC are not so rigorous, but my impression of the program is that basically you get out of it what you put into it. To be honest, I’m not so interested in doing the program as a way to improve my Chinese language skills, but rather as a means to obtain a formal academic background in China Studies, something I didn’t have the opportunity to do as an undergrad. </p>

<p>I was just formally notified of my acceptance on Friday but I am still waiting for information about financial aid. I haven’t made a decision yet, but I am leaning toward doing it. Besides your criticisms of its language requirements, what is your honest assessment of the program? </p>

<p>Also, is it common for people to do the certificate program and then apply for MA programs in IR? If so, I would assume they would all want to apply to SAIS. Also, how willing are the Chinese professors at HNC to write grad school recommendations for international students? Is this something they are used to from having international students or not really? I know in a lot of times for Chinese students here Chinese professors refuse to or are incapable of writing recs for students who plan on studying in the US. </p>

<p>Thanks again for the input, I appreciate it!</p>

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<p>Personally if I were you I wouldn’t go to HNC for “China Studies”. The HNC programs are very general because they have to be. If you want formally study China studies and don’t care about getting a masters from a top Chinese university in Chinese (the professors at schools like renda or tsinghua, peking uni, fudan many are internationally well known and know how to write rec letters) apply to a one year program in East Asian studies at the states will be better serving. Its more concentrated, more in depth, and better recommendation chances.</p>

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<p>I generally agree with BlueJay, diantou. On Chinese language stuff, I have to defer to him anyway. </p>

<p>My only other suggestion, if you are really interested in East Asia, is to consider IR/PS. While its Japan program has long since waned, its China programs have become rather strong. Plus, they aren’t overly concerned with the occasional low GRE or low GPA applicant. Splitters, as I’ve heard them called, often find themselves welcome.</p>

<p>My only major criticism of the program is its location, but if my classmates are any indication, it never really mattered.</p>

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<p>If you are really interested in IR/East Asia. SAIS is the best choice and then followed by Georgetown WSFS then by IR/PS. And to top if it off do the one year masters in East Asian studies at Columbia where you can take courses at the Weatherhead Institute in poly sci that will boost your application for Walsh and SAIS and I’m sure make you a golden student for UCSD. I have met the faculty members at UCSD IR/PS and they are top quality but from what I understand is the school does not have the same sweet funding for students that students that georgetown and JHU have due to the lack of generous donors and the crapstorm that the cali budget is. But if you really want to go off the beaten path Waseda University has an IR program taught in English and Japanese Peking University and Tsinghua Uni both offer English Ir masters programs. BUt like I said before I personally think instead of doing the certificate work in the states at an internship with something Asia related…it will help alot more than the certificate.</p>

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<p>BlueJay,</p>

<p>One of the nice things about IR/PS, though, is that you can easily take in-state status second year, which reduces the cost considerably. Plus, they’re generally pretty good about helping students find on-campus employment, such as TAships.</p>

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<p>I didn’t mean financial funding, I meant conferences, language training, travel fees etc, things to help buck up peoples academia records and presentations for future academic work and jobs.</p>

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<p>BlueJay,</p>

<p>Well, to be fair, most people going to IR/PS are not generally looking for academic work. It’s a very professionally-minded program, and anyone interested in academic work should definitely consider a different program. Out of my entire cohort, only a small handful went on to do academic things, and of them, most went on to PhDs.</p>

<p>But for academic work, I’m of the opinion that the MA is an expensive pit stop, and most people should just do the PhD. It’s usually free, and is going to provide much greater opportunities. Most MAs are just too darn expensive.</p>

<p>I’m very sorry ahead of time if anything I say runs counter to your opinions, by the way. I don’t mean any harm.</p>

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<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Again, thanks for the insight. BlueJay, I actually visited HNC and listened into some classes and definitely saw want you meant about the academics being watered down, which was a bit disappointing. However, I decided to attend the program anyway because I got decent funding and feel I could still get a lot out of the environment. </p>

<p>I am looking again at MA programs, and I wanted to ask both of you more about IR/PS. It seems like a great program, but how does it compare to SAIS or SFS in terms of China studies? Employment after graduation? Funding opportunities?</p>

<p>From what I can tell, and as UCLAri mentioned, the location is a huge downside. But how much does that really matter? Aren’t internships completed during the summer anyway?</p>

<p>Also, IR/PS is obviously both cheaper than SAIS and SFS. Are the names of SAIS or SFS really worth the huge expense? I know there is never a clear-cut answer to this question, but I’m still curious about your opinions. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>The head of sais china department is the leading western scholar in Chinese foreign policy and politics need I say more…</p>

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<p>Good luck at hnc I would have really suggested an eas master degree but $ is $</p>

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<p>diantou,</p>

<p>IR/PS is a great program with a lot of strengths, but location is not one of them.</p>

<p>That is not to say that graduates don’t do well. They do. But it’s a bit of an uphill battle compared to the East Coast programs when it comes to getting jobs out here on the East Coast. </p>

<p>Internships are in the summer, but networking is year-round. You never stop networking if you’re really doing it right. It’s very hard to attend dinners and events out in DC if you’re not in DC. IR/PS tries its best to make up for that by having special compressed networking trips in DC with groups, but it isn’t quite the same.</p>

<p>However, there is a big advantage to IR/PS, which you mentioned: cost. Cost is a huge factor for these degrees, especially given the kinds of jobs most IR grads pursue. Do you want to work for an NGO or NPO? Then cost should be your primary concern.</p>

<p>Let me demonstrate the importance of cost with a little exercise:</p>

<p>The average private school IR grad will graduate with around $100K in debt. That comes out to $1150 per month for 10 years. At $50,000 a year (which is what you might expect out of an NGO/NPO job), you’ll take home about $3000 a month. After loans (assuming no undergraduate loans), you’ll have only $1850 in cash to pay your bills, save, and maybe have a little fun.</p>

<p>That’s assuming out of pocket, and average NPO salary. I’m basing average salaries on a composite of school graduate data. </p>

<p>Everyone I know who went to IR/PS and was willing to do the work following graduation is now gainfully employed. It was never a problem finding a job. The question was whether or not they ended up in DC/NY or not. Most who wanted to be in DC/NY ended up out here, however. They also did it with about a third of the average debt. </p>

<p>I’m all for going to the best program, but the fact is that with your salary likely to be low as it is, you have to be pragmatic. I chose pragmatic, and I do not regret it.</p>

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<p>Hi I’m not sure if anyone will still read this thread, but I’ve been recently accepted into the MAIS program in Nanjing, and am also weighing the considerable costs of the degree. It is much more expensive than the one year certificate. Diantou how do you like it there? </p>

<p>BlueJay you are one of the first people I’ve heard criticize the program, but that’s also because I have had a hard time finding independent information about it. I would like to know more of your criticisms. My professor recommended it, but he might be going off of old information, he said a former student came back with absolutely elegant Chinese (that’s a lot from him). So I’m surprised you said it to be so watered down. What do you think about the difference between the MA and the Certificate? You recommend schools in China, which I know I can get into for free, but my experience with them is they basically just pass the foreigners along and they are not well regarded outside of China. In fact, I’ve seen some pretty crazy academic situations here. I am really in a rut trying to decide…</p>

<p>However, I’ve been to Nanjing before and thought it was the best city I’ve been to in China.</p>