Chances?

Colleges & Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
21

<p>Naviance is a software program purchased by high schools. It is basically a college admissions management software. </p>

<p>For this thread what is important is that naviance provides scattergrams showing the applicants(in his case Northern Virginia applicants) GPA/SAT on a graph. It shows who was accepted, rejected, denied etc.</p>

<p>I simply pulled up scattergrams for the subject colledges from several NOVA high schools. The averages are the information that I provided to you which clearly indicate that it is much easier, at least for a NoVa student to get into Lehigh, Bucknell, and Colgate, than to get into William and Mary. I don’t know know how selectivity ratings are established, but the scattergrams are cold hard facts of admitted students from last year. Please note these are Northern Virginia Students only. Fairfax County to be exact which is arguably the toughest county in Virginia.</p>

<p>In my experience, ppl are much more worried about getting into W&M than Bucknell which is considered a comparitive cake walk. Pretty much like getting into VaTech or James Madison.</p>

22

<p>Oh the Patriot League is athletics?</p>

23

<p>Barrett, you were making good progress in edifying and lending great credibility to your argument of Bucknell, Colgate, Lehigh admissions vs. W&M, even for Fairfax Co. residents. Seems your argument is clear.</p>

<p>You totally lost me though when you tried to suggest that Tech, Jmu are in the same contest. That’s ludicrous for non-residents and Virginians alike. </p>

<p>It sounds like Navigance is a most informative instrument, but if it illustrates the immediate above, it’s bogus and at unreliable, it would seem.</p>

24

<p>Yes, The Patriot League is an athletic league just as the Ivy League is an athletic league.</p>

<p>[The</a> Patriot League - Official Athletic Site](<a href=“http://patriotleague.cstv.com/]The”>http://patriotleague.cstv.com/)</p>

<p>[Ivy</a> League Sports](<a href=“http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/]Ivy”>http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/)</p>

25

<p>Well Whistle, it is all about money. Here’s why. Virginia is a tough state academically. It also has great, and I repeat GREAT state schools. With the cost of college every parent around is really hoping that their kid will attend one of these instate schools. UVA is 18k R&B, W&M around 17K. Tech is about 15-16k Madison about the same. </p>

<p>In order to avoid paying 40-50 k the vast majority of Virginia students apply to some VA schools. The cost of money (tuition, room and board, fees, books, lab fees, computer, movie money etc) combined with the strain of the 2008 baby boomlet on college admissions over the past several years has driven up the admission stats of Virginia schools.</p>

<p>I think the problem is that you are comparing historical superiority with present day superiority. Supply and demand, number of applicants, is driving up the stats at solid state schools like Tech and Madison. Six years ago, Bucknell and Tech were different in terms of admissions numbers. Today, the gap is closing. But just so you know I will post Tech and Madison Stats.</p>

<p>VaTech GPA 3.73 SAT 1996
James Madison GPA 3.68 SAT 1943</p>

<p>It is important to remember that Bucknell draws a lot of PA students. In Pa a 90 is a 4.0 and provides weight for honors and of course AP/IB. In NoVa which are the numbers I am providing a 94 is a 4.0/A and there is no weight for honors, GT or Pre IB. The rigor of FFx County is well known throughout the country.</p>

<p>For example, at a college fair the adcom of Northwestern told me that they consider Fairfax County IB students differently than the rest of the country. It is an uber agressive, highly educated county.
Hope this helps re-establish credibility…</p>

26

<p>good arguments, for sure, and you’re on the $$ that today vs. 20 years past … 80+ are going to the state institutions for one reason alone … $$. 35 years ago, the privates held the advantage. </p>

<p>And yes, VA has some attractive, competitive state u’s, notably W&M and UVA. Your argument for VA Tech, JMU doesn’t fly though.</p>

<p>I know many many students who got into both of those places from VA and outta state, and couldn’t even smell one of the Patriot League schools. </p>

<p>I’m not promotiing them, just commenting in a nutshell, I don’t believe for a second, no matter where one lives that he or she would gain admission to Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, etc. and not VA Tech, JMU, ODU, Radford, VA Commonwealth, GMU, or wherever. VA Tech and JMU are fine places, neither is a superior public though in terms of perception, stats, or reputation. Your notion about differential of NoVA vs. Pa students is downright silly. I’ve heard that one before and it just doesn’t hold any water when really scrutinized. I like your logic, it’s just not reality. While improving, as a state, VA’s publics have been among the poorest in the nation. Yes, there are many decent publics, some very competitive in NoVA particularly. Sadly they don’t overcome the state’s reality.</p>

<p>This is classic Virginian delusion, imo. I love VA, but let’s get real about this.</p>

27

<p>

</p>

<p>For the record I did not compare ODU, Radford, VCU or GMU to Bucknell. No comparison. LOL, I had to think about what ODU meant!</p>

<p>GMU came up in the stats a little a couple of years ago due to the big basketball win but it is still a commuter school of last resort. Nobody is killing themselves to go there. Having said that their law school is gaining ground. Mostly b/c the profs are displaced gov’t officials who teach while they wait to get back to some Fed Job.</p>

<p>Ultimately the numbers don’t lie. Getting into Bucknell, Colgate and Lehigh is not as tough as you are suggesting. Couldn’t find Holy Cross or Lafayette data for you so dunno. </p>

<p>BTW, I’m a Virginia transplant. Born and raised in suburban Philly. All of my cousins go to HS in Lower Merion and Wallingford (presidential Blue Ribbon schools) and they $hit when they see my IB workload. They can’t believe I have to get a 94 to get an A b/c a 90 is an A in PA. Don’t get me wrong they are strong students in 3.9 range, but I wish I had their academic life. Since I am the only one quoting number I will agree, lets get real.</p>

<p>Lehigh is a tough and highly regarded engineering school (grandfather went there) but Tech is just about as highly regarded. Bucknell is considered solid in engineering. I’m not dissing these schools. But if your instate and intend on going on to grad school my theory is keep your powder dry, in terms of student loans, until undergrad is done unless you have the numbers and resume to go to a school like say Wharton or MIT where ppl line up to hire you.</p>

28

<p>Haha. I think it’s funny to read these arguments in a “Chances” thread. </p>

<p>;)</p>

29

<p>One thing to keep in mind for what it is worth is that the Patriot League Schools are all around 3000 in student enrollment, far smaller than the Virginia state schools.</p>

<p>I think that for those outside of the state of Virginia and geographically close to a Patriot League school, the PL school will be roughly comparable in cost to out of state tuition so not compelling for out of state students except for UVA and possibly W&M although the latter does not have the same name recognition nationwide as UVA even though I know it is a great academic school.</p>

<p>As there are no Patriot League schools in Virginia and most are in remote areas, it is a hard sell for Virginia residents due to huge cost differences and geography.</p>

30

<p>

</p>

<p>UVa takes around 3000 per year William and Mary takes less than that. So do many other Virginia schools. Tech is the exception at about 5k</p>

31

<p>Holy Cross, one of the PL schools, only has 700 in each class which is pretty typical for the Patriot League.</p>

32

<p>But what are Holy Cross stats?</p>

33

<p>They meant Patriot League schools enroll 3000 kids total. Not per class.</p>

34

<p>Best stats I could find for HC is:</p>

<p>According to Peterson’s Best Colleges, for the freshman class of 2006:</p>

<p>Average GPA: Holy Cross (3.75)</p>

<p>USNews online reports HC’s 50% mid-range of 1210-1380.</p>

35

<p>One other thing to note:
Holy Cross fields 12 men’s teams and 13 women’s teams in division 1 and their enrollment is only 2790 so about 25% of the student body are varsity athletes. One could reasonably assume that some of the football and hockey recruits and basketball scholarship athletes weigh down the overall stats.</p>