That appears most likely with frosh English composition and beginner foreign language, where small class sizes are more desired than for many other kinds of courses, which requires numerous class sections which may be too numerous for just the regular faculty in the departments to teach.
Yeah, freshman comp is probably the best known case of that. I had PhD students as instructors of record for calculus and psychology in undergrad, though there were other sections of the same classes taught by profs. Some different intro classes were always taught by profs (e.g., gen chem and physics).
Adjuncts with or without a terminal degree are, of course, another common solution where PhD students aren’t available or desirable for classes that regular faculty aren’t teaching.
I don’t have a problem with these arrangements in general (other than the low pay). Many of them do an amazing job.
Also, I went to a work meeting and apparently missed some sort of drama on this thread – probably for the best 
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There’s a school out there for everyone. You can graduate from a lesser known school and become our great next innovator just as you can graduate from one of the top schools and become a nop (I was looking for a better term buy came up empty, Google is your friend).
Grad students leading discussion sessions? No problem.
Grad students teaching classes? Not desirable, IMO, but could be acceptable under the right conditions.
Lots of schools, lots of employers, lots of opportunity really.
Choose wisely my friend.
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I’ll add that there’s quite a difference between a first year MA/MS student and someone a few months away from finishing their dissertation. It’s not uncommon for a PhD student at Berkeley or Michigan to be more up to date with recent academic literature and doing more cutting-edge research than a professor at a directional state school who’s been saddled with a 4/4 teaching load for the last couple of decades.
Some LACs even offer PhD completion fellowships to entice high-achieving PhD students to come to campus for a year. Examples:
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But none of them are likely to be on sabbatical from NASA or have meaningful industry experience.
There’s certainly no guarantee that a professor is going to be a great teacher. Depending on the school though, there will be instructors who bring different experiences to the table.
But someone on sabbatical from NASA is going to be an adjunct- precisely what the crowd on CC thinks is second rate/not worth considering those universities, let alone taking a class with them.
Which is my point. There are phenomenal instructors at every level of the ladder. Dismissing a college which employs “state of the art” adjuncts because your kid ONLY wants vocational training from a full professor with a PhD is crazy IMHO.
I don’t think it says that anywhere on this thread, certainly not by my hand.
My term was “with terminal degree.” I also nuanced it, completely, saying that there was no guarantee said terminal degree guaranteed competency in teaching, or that someone without couldn’t be an outstanding instructor.
I think I’ve made my point. It’s a good time to bow out when comments are grossly misconstrued.
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I know what a terminal degree is. And your NASA adjunct might well have a Master’s degree-- which would not qualify him or her to join a tenure-track faculty. And yet- well worth taking his/her class, which I think we’d both endorse.
Let’s move the conversation forward please. If you guys want a private chat with each other, take it to PM
I don’t know if I’m directly answering your question, but I will say that I have no doubt there are CS and engineering graduates of Tennessee State who are as good as, or better than, graduates of MIT.
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Most likely. But also true I think is that a distribution graph of “good” graduates from MIT would show much stronger graduates…
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I am not sure it’s all that likely, statistically speaking.
It is also true that most MIT students (25th percentile ACT 35) would not find many academic peers at a school, ABET-accredited or not, where overwhelming majority of students matriculate below what is considered college readiness level (ACT 22).
I mean, sure, there maybe a lone outlier hiding somewhere among those 0.7%, but a lone outlier peer group does not make.
And for those at the top of the class at MIT, there are very few institutions that can offer them anything comparable to the peer group they find there. Fewer than one might think.
I’ve never done a statistical study on it, but I have worked with a lot of people from elite and less-than-elite universities on engineering and software projects. There have been plenty of people from the less-than-elite schools that were more effective than those from elite schools. Certainly more than 0.7%
You seem to be moving the goalposts here. We were comparing two specific (ABET accredited) schools, not just general (vaguely defined) groups of “elite” and “less-than-elite”.
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Isaac Hellerman! Arrived at University of Dallas (no, not UT-Dallas, but rather University of Dallas-- the tiny Catholic school) with a plan to major in liturgical music, but decided to add on a math major too. Putnam competition 17th place! What fun.
ETA: Also a kid from our local high school finished in the 100-200 group! Wow! So great!!!
Thanks for the link!
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I’ve extended the time users need to wait since apparently some thought my earlier post was a suggestion to be ignored.
You were earlier comparing MIT and Tennessee State, so I responded to that.
OP did not mention Engineering at all though.
So, what if OP’s children want to study Political Science? English? Art History ? Hispanic Studies? Physics? Neuroscience?
What about Business or Management?
– IOW, fields where there is not even the basic “floor” that ABET guarantees?
Does attending an Ivy/Ivy+ (I assume Northwesten, UChic, Stanford, Little ivies, 7Sisters, Top HBCUs are included) matters?
- for learning experience
- for internships
- for post graduation outcomes
Or has it really changed in the past couple years?
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Is this helping the OP or even remotely on topic? Seems like a discussion of engineering programs should have its own thread.
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On average, I think that students that go to the top schools in their area of study will have better learning experiences. I think the academics will be more rigorous, the peer group will drive more and better debate, and the facilities will provide more opportunities. That’s my opinion
When it comes to internships and outcomes, I think that’s where things get fuzzy, because it’s about more that academics at that point.
In non-engineering/science fields, a college name may help, but for most engineering/science fields (where I have some experience) perhaps less so. The process for engineering type internships at say Google is, for the majority of students, basically the same - apply, phone screen, code test (x3 or 4), match, interview, so everyone basically has the same shot. But once anyone gets to the interview stage for any internship personality becomes a factor.
Same for post-graduation outcomes - a degree from an elite university, I believe, does open doors, and many of the opportunities and experiences gained at an elite university do differentiate these graduates. But, that does not mean that these graduates have a monopoly on all of the great opportunities out there.
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