Change in opinions about colleges

Yes. And I’d add that the lawsuit probably understates the strength of athletic recruiting due to somewhat messy data. The admit rate at all Ivies is probably closer to 99+% for a recruit who has gone through the full recruiting process and receives coach support during the admissions process. In many cases those recruits will have a likely letter in hand prior to Dec.

So when the OP indicates their child could likely be admitted to an Ivy, that is likely the case if this is an academically qualified athlete the coach wants.

This is not the case at MIT, which is more of a coin flip.

I think the quant angle has been well described by @hebegebe.

I’d just add a few other observations, focusing on Ivies (since those were mentioned by OP) vs some of the other very fine schools such as Utah, etc., that OP might see as alternatives:

-the pathway to quant roles is definitely more established at a handful of schools. However, the competition for these roles is still pretty fierce. One of the things that distinguishes certain schools from others is the quality of the next best and even least best option. An average student with an interest in quantitative finance at, say, Harvard, might not end up in a quant trading role. But they will have a lot of other options.

-if plans change, some schools have far better options across all disciplines. So yes, for an average CS student one might be able to make the case that Utah, Cal Poly SLO, and Princeton will yield roughly similar career starts. But for a student who drifts more toward Econ or international affairs or math or physics, one of those is not at all like the others.

-something to keep in mind for an athlete is that being a competitive athlete does come with opportunity costs. Some of the academic, social, career opportunities at all these schools will be unavailable to an athlete spending 20+ hours a week training, traveling, and competing. So you really do have to focus not on what a hypothetical student could accomplish at these different schools and consider what your athletic student will be able to accomplish. If being a competitive job candidate at a state flagship requires extensive extracurricular participation to stand out, that might not be something an athlete can do. At the same time, if Harvard is attractive because of all the talks and lectures, make sure it’d actually be feasible for your athlete to make it to a few of those.

-+1 on considering peer group when comparing schools. There are great and smart students everywhere, and most students will find a suitable peer group wherever they end up. But at some schools, the typical conversations over lunch, etc., will just be at a different level. This difference can be even more pronounced with athletic teams.

If career prospects are a concern, I’d have your kid ask about this during the recruiting process. Ask what alums are doing, whether current athletes have trouble getting internships, etc.

9 Likes

Yes, it can be a long and fascinating discussion, and might not be all that much of a tangent after all, in the OPs context. But I, too, will try to limit myself to one last comment :slight_smile:

The tension between olympiads and research (and other real world applications for that matter) is oft-mentioned, but those who do well in these contests don’t typically do it for quant jobs or as a stepping stone for some other next stage. They do it because they love it. Quant jobs, schmant jobs, real world be damned.

That they then tend to be very successful as a group in both research and industry is a mere a posteriori observation. And while Harvard&Co. may look relatively pale in those lower spots on the Putnam podium, they certainly have their fair share of high-level math (and programming) competition kids coming in. But the culture may be notably different once they get there. Evan Chen touched on that as well.

I will conclude with another one of his remarks:

https://web.evanchen.cc/faq-raqs.html#R-3

What’s the most important thing that math contests taught you?

I have a whole post on lessons I learned from math contests, but here’s one that mattered to me a lot back in high school.

In my opinion, one of the most damaging messages I got during high school is that hard work pays off. This is not true, and one of the most important life skills that math contests taught me were how to work hard even being fully aware that I might never “succeed”. Most notably, this requires enjoying the work itself rather than just as a means to an end."

1 Like

just a great post. thank you

5 Likes

This topic was automatically closed 180 days after the last reply. If you’d like to reply, please flag the thread for moderator attention.