change of heart, change of major?

<p>This is a topic that I don't recall seeing discussed here, but maybe that's because those who would be discussing it don't read this board anymore, or at least don't post here. </p>

<p>Virtually everyone who does post here is either a student who, the parent of a student who, or an educator/coach who works with students who are absolutely certain in their deepest heart of hearts that they want an MT degree, followed by--if all goes well--a career in MT.</p>

<p>But how often do they change their minds? And what happens when they do? I'm asking this, as you might guess, because my D is starting to tilt in that direction. Does she still get tremendous joy from MT? Absolutely. In her case, singing in particular will always, always be one of her greatest passions and sources of satisfaction--of that I have absolutely no doubt. But some non-MT classes she's had (she's not in a conservatory program), plus a job and other experiences, have turned her head ? or should I say opened her eyes? I guess that?s really the question: Is she losing focus, or finding possible new avenues of focus? She?s really jazzed about learning and doing things in some non-MT areas, and isn?t the opportunity to explore new areas one of the best things about college? We hear time and again about that ?if you can imagine yourself doing something else, don?t do MT? (or theatre in general). Well, as she dreamed about and prepared for college, my D was certain about MT. But she?s changed. She?s grown and matured. And now, as a college sophomore, she?s looking toward other possible horizons. She?s wiser and more self-knowing now than she was as a high schooler, and I think she?ll do a good job of figuring out what?s right for her. Whatever she decides is fine with my H and me. It?s just kind of surprising!</p>

<p>I?m expecting someone to suggest that these MT programs, as selective and tough as they are, wind up being self-weeding ? students have to not only want MT with all their hearts, but also throw themselves utterly and completely into the program, because that?s what you have to do to excel. That may be part of what?s at work with my D. But even if it is, what came first ? a lesser commitment to MT, or a growing interest in other things?</p>

<p>I?m wondering if anyone else out there has had this experience ? and if so, what was the outcome?</p>

<p>Artsymom, </p>

<p>While I can't say I have had that experience with my kid personally, I definitely understand the experiences you are relating with regard to your daughter. </p>

<p>First, stepping back BEFORE one applies to college, for a moment.....I think kids who love MT really need to think long and hard about the differences between a BFA and a BA path. I think too many kids are too quick to pick the BFA one when it may very well not be the right one for them, no matter how wonderfully talented they may be in that field. In fact, a lot of the guidance I attempt to give the students with whom I work really reviews this issue at the outset. A BFA is NOT for everyone. A person can be very passionate about MT and want to pursue or study it but a BFA is not the appropriate choice. A person who simply loves MT and wants to keep doing it, might be better off in a BA. A person who doesn't just love MT but IS MT HAS to do a BFA as no other route would feel right for them. One thing that I hear with many students is "I want options" or "I want fall backs" and so on and so forth. Already, my mind goes to "do a BA" which is where you can have options. Only seek a BFA if you are so certain of no other path. The slightest bit of uncertainty leads me to think that a BA path is more suitable for some kids. It doesn't mean giving up MT, but simply it allows them to change their mind, explore various options, have their desired "fallbacks", etc. A BFA is a HUGE commitment at a young age that truly requires knowing without a doubt that you can't exist without pursuing MT. A person who wants to study MT, can still do a BA, but the commitment for that more narrow path is not as set in stone. So, step one is figuring out which path fits the student best. </p>

<p>One thing is that it is very hard for a 17 year old to KNOW for CERTAIN what they want to do. In fact, that is what college can and is often about....exploring many things to figure out what you want to do. In fact, some subjects aren't even studied until college. I have a daughter who was NOT ready to commit at age 17 to a narrow path. She was interested in architecture but could not know for certain that she wanted to do that the rest of her life which is what she had to do if she picked a professional degree program for college (a five year BArch degree.....kinda like choosing a BFA in MT). It is not like she had been learning about architecture her entire life. Also, she wanted a broader education as she is interested in other subjects. She didn't want a huge chunk of her education to be in one area and to be all set with little choices. Thus she chose a BA path, a liberal arts degree in architecture, which will require a graduate professional degree (MArch) in order to become an architect (vs. the 5 year BArch degree she didn't do). As it turns out, she has decided to become an architect but she had the freedom to explore and change her mind. She also has been able to study other things and get a broad education like she wanted. I think college can and often should be, the place to explore and figure out what you want to do. </p>

<p>Her sister, however, who had done MT her whole life, however, KNEW what she wanted to do. It wasn't like a big decision to do it. It just WAS. It was not even discussed. She was certain of her path and only applied to BFA programs. However, as certain as she is of MT and loves doing a BFA, she did want a BFA school where there was some liberal arts because as she has stated "I love learning". She loves learning about other things too and in fact, that learning makes her a better actor, I'm sure. She is commited 100% to MT, but she likes other things. She didn't go into it wanting a back up but simply enjoys other subjects and skills. Her classes started yesterday and she was extremely excited to be taking Political Sociology of War and Playwriting, both of which interest her a lot. She is not doing these things as back up but simply because she enjoys them. She recently wrote a mini musical that is going to be put on, and loves the creative process. She enjoys musically directing, accompanying, choreographing, writing, arranging, along with performing. Her BFA has allowed her to do all these things. However, she still loves the BFA. Doing MT is just part of who she is and so it has been the right path.</p>

<p>However, I have seen at all of these BFA programs, many students who do not stay in the program. Many stay at their colleges but leave the BFA or some transfer all together. I think it is pretty common. What I observe is that once some have engaged in the BFA, they have come to realize that that is not the path for them, even if they still love MT and want to do MT. For some, it might be due to the intensity, hours, total commitment, etc. For some, they realize they are also interested in studying other things, maybe even more than MT. Again, that is what college is supposed to be about....figuring those things out. The problem (which isn't really a problem) is that the BFA path doesn't really allow one to do that. A BFA path is a commitment from the start (unless you leave the BFA). The college experience of exploring different subjects and determing your path doesn't come with the BFA "tag" but is really what a BA path allows. My daughter has seen several kids leave the BFA at NYU and switch into BA programs. She has a friend from home who started in the BFA at Emerson but opted out of the BFA to pursue the path she wants now which is still in performing arts but not as narrow as MT. What I see happening is that some students who chose a BFA are basically doing what college students do all the time, changing their major or focus. It is just that the BA path is more suited to that kind of exploration and changing and options. A BFA truly is not for everyone and it is a commitment from the outset to one narrow path (though I do believe a person who earns a BFA in MT is prepared to do many things). When I say "narrow path", I mean more a narrow path of study, not career. Some BFAs do allow for some liberal arts and so for those who still want to learn about other subjects even if they are certain of the BFA in MT, they should pick a BFA program that allows for some liberal arts (my kid cared about that). </p>

<p>So, I think what your daughter is experiencing is very common for COLLEGE students. A majority change their intended major once in college. She is having a typical experience for someone her age. It is just that the BFA is meant for those who are 100% certain (which is hard for many 17 year olds to be). I think your daughter would be fine to switch from her BFA to a BA and still pursue her love of MT, but be able to explore many things and even other careers. A BFA is not worth doing unless your heart and soul are deeply tied to doing it. It just involves a total commitment and is intense. I can't imagine doing all that unless you are so certain you could not dream of not doing it. A person in a BA can be very passionate about MT but enjoy other passions and not feel like it HAS to be MT or else. Switching to a BA doesn't mean giving up MT in one's life! I hope your daughter goes with wherever her heart leads her and I don't think she is giving up MT but simply giving up the BFA path because it likely isn't the right fit for where she is at at the present time. I think she is getting a lot out of college and in fact, due to her exploration, is figuring out what she wants to do which is what college really is about. The BFA thing is for those who didn't even have to figure it out but just KNOW without a doubt. Even some of those kids might have to switch out once they experience a BFA and realize it is not for them. They still can do MT. It is not like they are giving up MT itself.</p>

<p>Thank you for posting the question, artsymom and for your thoughtful answer, soozievt. I think that this thread will not only benefit those who are experiencing what artsymom wrote about (and, as soozievt pointed out, what is happening with artsymom's D apparently happens to quite a few kids) but also for those of us with MTers who are still in high school and are looking ahead to college. Many (would you say most, soozievt?) are very, very narrowly focused, and more than a few students get into their first year or slightly beyond and just feel too constricted. (For instance, another parent recently told me that her D's friend, who is attending a very prestigious university program in theater design, decided by the end of her first semester that she needed a program that allowed her to explore and study other subjects. Unfortunately, the one she attended proscribed almost every course!) My own D recently had a chance to discuss the BA vs. BFA question with a group of Equity actors appearing locally in a musical, and all opined that the only people who should consider pursuing a BFA degree are those who cannot imagine studying and doing anything else. Several also said that they thought, in fact, that getting a BA/BS degree in another subject area while training hard in acting, dance and voice might, in fact, be a better choice in the long run for many currently pursuing BFAs. As Soozievt said about her own D's studies in political science, etc.: the more you know about, the better an actor you can be. Artsymom, I think it's fabulous that your D is open to new things and is willing to change and grow as her life and interests change. That is what college is supposed to be all about!</p>

<p>NMR...right....there is the situation before even picking where to apply.....the kids who say they want options, aren't certain, or who even have a need to discuss all that...likely are better suited to a BA path. I have had many of these discussions with applicants. Some have indeed opted to apply to BA schools, not BFA ones now. Some chose to apply to some of each. Some who are conflicted, spell in my mind....do a BA! </p>

<p>But then there is the part AFTER they are in a BFA. For some, not until they truly experience the intensity, committment, hours, etc. do they realize that that kind of degree program is not for them. And then for others, it is more that they are exploring many things and changing and growing, like college students are supposed to do, and want some other options or even like other things as much if not more. This is not so far fetched. And a BA student can still pursue MT or Theater. I also know some highly talented MT kids who have the "goods" to get into top BFA programs and/or even did, but WANTED a BA school like Brown, Yale, Northwestern, etc. I'm talking kids who have won NFAA in MT, been leads in very competitive environments, etc. And we all know that there are many paths that can still lead to a life in the MT world. So, one needs to pick the right path that fits what they want in a college experience and even if they pick the wrong one that they realize once they try it out or once they have explored and want to study something else, it is OK to change. I think a lot of the graduating classes in these BFA programs are smaller than the entering freshmen classes for a variety of reasons.</p>

<p>I just realized that I omitted a few words in my post above, changing the meaning. </p>

<p>I wrote: Many (would you say most, soozievt?) are very, very narrowly focused, and more than a few students get into their first year or slightly beyond and just feel too constricted" when I meant to write "Many (would you say most, soozievt?) BFA PORGRAMS are very, very narrowly focused ..." </p>

<p>I meant to point out that some BFA MT programs are very proscribed, and as a result don't give students much time to explore classes in various other subjects, etc. </p>

<p>NMR apologizes for the error. :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
I meant to point out that some BFA MT programs are very proscribed, and as a result don't give students much time to explore classes in various other subjects, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is true. There are a lot of differences and variations from one BFA program to the next. That is why examining each one and finding the best fit is important. On the other hand, admissions is so competitive and unpredictable, that one can't be as picky and has to see just where he/she can even be admitted. That is why in creating a BFA list of schools, you have to balance fit with also being open minded and exploring various BFA options that exist (even if they are not ideal in terms of location, size, or some other facet). I think my kid could have had a great education and experience at any school on her list. Some just fit her better than others and I am very grateful that she had a choice and actually got into her first choice because it really IS a good fit for what she wants to do. It isn't better than other BFAs but simply fits more of her college selection criteria. </p>

<p>For instance, my D got into BOCO, a fine, fine BFA program. I wondered in some ways why she applied as she didn't want strictly conservatory but she said she made an exception for BOCO because she liked BOCO and the liberal arts courses that they require are ones that interested her. However, BOCO has barely any choices of liberal arts courses. The ones they offer sound interesting and fit her interests but she'd have not been able to choose courses from a large array at all. I also think she craves a challenging academic setting when it comes to coursework and so I'm not sure that was the best fit, despite it being a terrific program, etc. Then, for instance, she got into PSU and PSU has liberal arts requirements but some are very specifically defined....such as taking math, foreign language, etc. I think my D much prefers the wide open choices she has at NYU in very broadly defined requirement areas. Then there's Ithaca where she got in and the location wasn't that appealing but also in terms of dance, I don't think there are as many levels as she has at Tisch and in fact, very few levels of tap and she is a very experienced tap dancer. She'd have been fine if she went there but given a choice, her school was a better fit for her needs and interests. Each school has pros and cons too. For instance, it likely would be "easier" (not easy) to be cast in productions at a smaller program like PSU, Otterbein, Ithaca, OU, etc. than at Tisch due to numbers, but then again they do have many performance opportunities at Tisch. While my D was waitlisted at CMU and we all know what a fine program that is, she'd not have been able to do as much with liberal arts there as she can at Tisch. </p>

<p>My daughter studied politics last semester in a very challenging course and loved it. She is saying she thinks her sociology class about war will be "fantastic". She loves to write and is very psyched about the Playwriting Practicum with a very accomplished writer. There are some schools where she could not have done this. Some students wouldn't care two bits about this. She even knows kids at her own school who don't like academics at all (not sure why they picked Tisch!). She loves it even though she is very very focused on MT. But she is a person with various skills and interests and likes to learn. She isn't looking for "backups" but I do believe she is capable of doing more than performing on stage, if need be. I can see her creating the musicals themselves and musically directing them. She enjoys that process, though she is very passionate about being a MT actress. Tisch is a good fit as she has been able to learn and do many things. She just returned two days ago from an all expense paid trip to Brazil in which she was engaged with those in the arts (both in her group and the Brazilians) which she said was an amazing experience. When she applied to Tisch, I didn't know she'd get to do this but now that she has, it is another example of something that she likely would not have been able to do (nor for free) at some other schools she was admitted to. It has all been part of her education. It has all been a good "fit" for her but again, not better than another school. It is hard to be given a choice with BFA schools, so one needs to have an open mind and look widely, but if given a choice, one really needs to examine their criteria for selection and look for the best fit for what they want to do. As far as what NMR says, it is very true that some BFAs allow for very little exploration of other interests/subjects. If you care about that as a learner, examine each school and apply or enroll accordingly.</p>

<p>I have two D's. The oldest one started out in a BFA (non-conservatory) program. She decided about 2nd semester of her freshman year that she did not want to be an actor. Part of it was looking at all the wonderful opportunities there were in the world and the other part was that she decided she did not want to be looking for a job all the time. She switched from the BFA to a BA and got her degree in THeatre. She did a Disney internship (giving tours at the animation studio), worked as an intern for the Orlando Shakespeare Co. one summer in their development office, took as many classes in arts management as she could get. When she graduated she went to work at Royal Caribbean as Cruise staff and is now after four years a Production Manager for them. So, she managed to keep her love of theatre, get a degree, pursue other interests and get a job. She is very happy. She went to the Univ. of Wyoming which I highly recommend to all of you. They have a very reputable, inexpensive acting program. And they were so patient in helping her through that time of indecision. So, yes I think it happens to quite a few that they change their minds or see other options.</p>

<p>My second D on the other hand is at a conservatory MT program and LOVES IT!! She has commented several times that the classes are so good that she really feels like she is getting a well-rounded education within the conservatory because they do a lot of writing, mega history for research (in fact she said she wished she had taken AP history in high school) and of course talk in many classes about current events both social and political. </p>

<p>I think the difference between the two girls is not because one went to a conservatory and the other did not. I think they are just different from each other. I was happy that my D who changed her mind was able to make her first love a part of her career even after she had decided not to become an actor. It gives her a great understanding when she is managing actors, singers, dancers, ice skaters, and stage staff because she has been on both sides of those jobs. </p>

<p>Best of luck to all of you in your endeavors.</p>

<p>marianne406 - I Loved Your Post! It's great to hear about other options out there and to see a young person who has made the transition from performer to Production Manager and able to maintain her love of theatre. Thanks so much for the post!</p>

<p>While I do and will completely support my S and his theater - VP persuits, I would also support any changes he might want to make. It might take me a little time to adjust, after all of the years of focus in MT, but in some ways I would breathe easier, because it is so hard to get work in this field.</p>

<p>Artsymom, I think your daughter is to be commended for her willingness to consider other paths. Learning to listen to our inner selves is as much a part of the [never-ending] educational process as learning from books and teachers. I don't see it as a loss of focus but rather a sharpening of focus...a fine-tuning of one's ability to listen to oneself. That your daughter is developing that ability and is willing to consider acting on what she is "hearing" is testimony to her maturity.</p>

<p>I'm beginning to see similar signs with my own daughter, and I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am. In her case, her commitment to her music has strengthened, although she still is going to pursue a BA rather than a BM. What is changing is her consideration of a career path; she originally thought she might minor in either arts administration or the production side of broadcasting, with the intent of eventually working in the film industry as a first assistant director. However, her inner voice has been pinging her with her concerns for social justice and global issues, and she is now working on a proposal for a second, individualized BA in Global Cultural Studies. I think, in the long run, she'll be looking for NGO work or possibly some sort of cultural affairs officer-type position. There's no doubt that her inner voice has unsettled her a bit...it's obviously much easier in some ways to stick with the original plan. But I couldn't be prouder that she's willing to open herself to new experiences and new possibilities. It's everything I hoped for as part of her college education.</p>

<p>My older son, not in performing arts but an athlete, changed majors after 3 semesters in college from pre-med to business, graduated in business in 2005, and has been working in his field. He is still trying to decide what he wants to do in life and recently studied and tested to become a certified physical trainer, something he's been doing as a volunteer position with his college and later back with his high school (as a strength training coach, something he is passionate about). He is still searching for the right profession, but he is trying to follow his dreams and has learned that he did not immediately choose a profession that he loves.</p>

<p>My younger son has been performing for much of his life and made a commitment to finding the right musical theatre program in 9th grade. He has never strayed from this focus, although he also likes to study other areas. Elon allows him to do the BFA in MT while still having a choice of challenging liberal arts courses. At least so far in life, he seems the child of mine who has stuck with wanting to do the same thing. It may be a profession where he'll never have a steady paycheck, but I hope it can be something he loves to do.</p>

<p>I think the majority of young people are searching for what they really want to do in life, and a kid who finds it is rare. Mine are different, just as many of you have kids who are different.</p>

<p>What wonderful posts, and what wonderful kids! I would love to see where all these smart, talented, energetic, versatile, caring people are in 5 or 10 years. It's so important to remember that everyone is different, and that even two people with "equal talents" (if there were such a thing) might well choose different paths. Sure, some people just KNOW -- Tiger Woods probably never thought of doing anything but golf, and I'll bet that's equally true for many pro golfers who will never begin to approach Tiger's level of stardom. But some people spend years, or even all their lives, discovering.</p>

<p>That, as it happens, describes me. I'm all for treating life as an ongoing opportunity to try new things, because otherwise I'd have to regard my own life as a waste of time! My outside-the-home occupations have included writer & editor/lawyer/foreign correspondent/fitness instructor & certified personal trainer/community theatre actor/volunteer in many organizations, often with several of those overlapping. This approach isn't better or worse than any other, it's just what's worked for me and for my family's lifestyle. </p>

<p>I'm delighted to report that my D, having just started second semester of sophomore year, is as enthusiastic as can be about the mixed bag of courses she's taking. What more can I ask for??</p>

<p>(btw, sorry my initial post wound up with all those wacky ?'s. Some of them were supposed to be there, but most of them were supposed to be ' or --.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
This approach isn't better or worse than any other

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wholeheartedly agree! I have one kid who has known what she has wanted to do since preschool and another who has discovered it along the way, exploring and solidifying her direction in college. I do not think one way is better than the other at all. </p>

<p>Actually "undecided" is the most popular major for incoming freshmen. This makes sense for an 18 year old. However, there are some who just know what they want to do at a young age and also there are some fields one can explore starting at a young age and there are fields one has very little exposure to until college.</p>

<p>To be honest, I wouldn't have been surprised to find my daughter had a change of heart (although she hasn't!) Having devoted all of her teenage years to performing in some aspect, it was natural for her to continue that pursuit in college. I was anxious to see if the rigorous course work needed for OCU's BM degree would encourage or discourage her. I should add she was also an excellent academic student with strong math/science skills although certainly not a passion for math or science. </p>

<p>She loves her curriculum at OCU including theory, aural skills and piano, something she had limited exposure to in high school. It has helped her gain confidence in all areas. </p>

<p>She did mention to me while she was home for Christmas break that several of her classmates had decided not to return to the MT/VP programs they started in August. Reasons varied but included interest in other areas, difficulty with grades in both MT/VP and academic classes and other opportunities (travel) presenting themselves. </p>

<p>I think the parents of students pursuing performing arts degrees should be commended for giving their kids the opportunity to pursue a sometimes impractical degree/lifestyle. If the student happens to have a change of heart, both the student and the parent know they gave it a shot. </p>

<p>C.</p>

<p>Some of you may find this post that I placed on the music forum interesting. It has a link to a series of articles about talented musicians who had a change of heart.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=288468%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=288468&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>OP:</p>

<p>I've been through this personally. I was extraordinarily lucky to be cast right out of college at a widely respected LORT B+ theater. Since this is a business (and you'll hear that theme repeated again and again with me), the contacts I made there led to further jobs, which led to more jobs. I spent three years as busy as I could be going from one production to the next. I met my wife doing this. She was one of the top costumers in the country.</p>

<p>One day, we were talking and, out of nowhere, we discovered that we could no longer stick with the life. The long separations were part of it. But more than that, we were tired of being mistreated. Once again, it's a business. It happens to be a business in which skilled labor is plentiful, so conditions are often terrible. And if you HAPPEN to be the Equity steward, you end up trying to balance your career with the demands of the contract. I can't tell you how much time I spent just ensuring that the actors got required rehearsal breaks, almost always to a look of pained disgust on the faces of the directors.</p>

<p>It was a hard life for me, and I was one of the lucky ones. So many talented people spend all their time just trying to get cast. And if they get cast, they spend all their time trying to figure out how to get medical benefits by working enough that year.</p>

<p>Every truly professional actor I know has the same thing to say to young people thinking of entering the profession: "If you can be happy doing something else, do THAT!"</p>

<p>My original goal last year was to get into an MT program. However, I got into OCU's theatre performance major, and accepted that, all set on reauditioning again this year. But in the last couple months, I've found that the theatre performance degree is a good fit for me, so I no longer plan to reaudition. Because there are less classes required for the major, it allows me to take classes in other things - I'm going to take every costuming class OCU offers because I really enjoy it and there is always work for costumers. I also am attempting a business and/or history minor, though I may wind up just taking several classes in each field because I want to graduate in four years. But in a way, I'm glad I didn't get into the MT program, because I wouldn't have had the opportunities to develop my interests in other fields.</p>

<p>We are no longer in a culture where people stay with one career or job their entire lives. Most folks will experience some sort of change, through interests or by necessity, through their journey.</p>

<p>As the mom of a son who is in a graduate theater program in London and a daughter who is a freshman MT major (trying to transfer--oh, good, auditions two years in a row!), and as a professional singer myself who is now a court reporter, I have been able to encourage my kids to go for it without hesitation. At age 30 or 40 or whatever, you can always go to law school, med school, or just about anything else--but you can't, at age 40, say, "I think I'll give Broadway a try!"</p>

<p>"but you can't, at age 40, say, "I think I'll give Broadway a try!"</p>

<p>Actually, you can! :) A wonderful actor is in the current Broadway production of Company, Bruce Sabath, who left a very successful (and well-trained - Harvard and Wharton) business career to pursue the stage for the past ten years. Another actor I know had a career as an accountant for many years prior to acting and then went on to national tours and he's been in Rent and Lennon on Broadway. It's not common but then neither is any actor making it to Broadway, regardless of their path!</p>

<p>artsymom, I don't think it's unusual, at all, for some kids studying theatre to change their minds about it once in college. It probably happens at every program across the country, to varying degrees and for varying reasons. Some kids may not be able to 'cut it' but I honestly think that this is a rarity. More often, it is one or a combination of other things. It could be a case of kids realizing that the very difficult world of acting is not for them, and I don't mean difficult as in training, but difficult as in consistently earning a living. High school kids tend to go into it with great hopes and dreams (nothing wrong with this, by any means) of ending up on Broadway like Kristin Chenoweth or Idina Menzel or Katie Clarke or John Lloyd Young or Will Chase or Raul Esparza. When they get to college (or sometimes even on the audition circuit), they see firsthand how large the talent pool is and sometimes the reality of the business enters their thinking for the first time. Expanding horizons and interests often are a factor once kids get to college and are exposed to the many possibilities which are available. I think there are many reasons why kids change direction, while still in college and also after graduation, and they need to have our support, regardless of those reasons.</p>