Cheating in HS

Parents Forum
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<p>I wonder if high school students are developmentally ready to uphold an honor code that requires witnesses to report cheating. In high school, many students have known each other since pre-school. Almost every high school student struggles daily with issues of identity - where am I, and where is my group, in the all-powerful pecking order? Adolescents feel a powerful loyalty to their peer group, apparently even when members of the peer group are torturing them on a daily basis. Adolescents are also questioning adult assumptions and values. So the requirement that they report cheating is asking quite a bit of them, since they’ll almost certainly face negative behavior from the peer group if they do.</p>

<p>I believe that college is different. At my daughter’s schools, there are procedures and traditions in place to uphold the honor code. There’s an important required ceremony before freshman year begins, at which every student signs the honor code. It’s exhaustively explained, in person and on the school websites. There are student-elected Honor Councils that hear cheating cases. The students who report cheating are supported by the system.</p>

<p>Wondering how many adults report suspected cheating (on taxes, in marriage, in business deals), or decide just to mind their own business? We’re not required to report, so how many of us do? Should we expect more from our adolescents than we do from ourselves?</p>

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<p>Frazzled, I think that’s a good point. I would never insist that my high school child report an honor code violation (that’s up to her), but I would NOT listen to her complain about cheating if she wasn’t willing to do so, and I’m not sure how firmly I could back up a high school administration that came down hard on a student for NOT reporting a violation. College is a different story, especially if the honor code was explained and signed off on. Students have more of a choice as to where they go to college and can choose a school without an honor code if they have a big problem with it. That’s not usually the case in high school.</p>

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<p>“Thanks for all the responses. I’m leaning towards an anonymous response.”</p>

<p>And the lesson for your kid will be? That Daddy will shield me from my Honor Code responsibilities? Believe me - the teachers already know the students are cheating. What they don’t know is if any of the students have been taught any ethics at home.</p>

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<p>Here’s what I don’t get. If the teachers already know the kids are cheating, then why aren’t THEY doing something about it? Why would they expect adolescents to turn in their classmates if the adults already know about the cheating but don’t care enough to do anything about it? My personal belief is that the student SHOULD come forward and report the honor code violation. Like I said above, I wouldn’t force my child to do so, but I’d encourage it. However, if I was a HS kid and thought for a minute that my teacher already knew there was cheating going on, there is no way I would turn in a classmate, because my assumption would be that nothing would be done about it but I’d be forever known as a snitch, and for what? So my teacher thought I’d been taught ethics at home?</p>

<p>ETA: One other thing that I really like about an honor code is that it sends a clear message to the students as to what their responsibility is - but perhaps not if the teachers are aware of the cheating and don’t do anything. Unfortunately, I think kids get mixed messages on this. For instance, when I was in grade school, I had a teacher who kept a tail in her classroom (a big, bushy clip on thing). If a child tattled on another student, they had to wear the tail for the rest of the day, because they were a tattle tale!! After that, do you think a kid is going to turn in a classmate for cheating, even WITH a specific honor code, if the teachers aren’t taking cheating very seriously and taking steps to prevent it? Not every situation is quite that egregious, but I have to think students take cues from the teachers.</p>

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<p>Teachers are not a bunch of yahoos. The incredible hassle of penalizing even one kid for cheating - acquiring the proof, dealing with the kid, dealing with the administration, dealing with the parents, having the case adjudicated, knowing full well that there are 10 more for everyone you take on, makes it just not worth the trouble. Especially when the parents are in the business of protecting “poor little Johnny”.</p>

<p>Most of them will NOT be caught eventually. They’ll end up running major corporations, and shipping profits off-shore.</p>

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<p>I think mini nailed it. Teachers know. But, they’re teaching in a private school. If they make little Johnny’s parents angry either by stopping the cheating so that Johnny does not get an A, or failing Johnny because he cheated, they risk losing their jobs. Since it sounds like this is school-wide, not just in one class, I’m kind of wondering if teachers might actually be relieved if this gets brought to the administration’s attention by parents, and they didn’t have to be the ones to say something?</p>

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<p>If a student has witnessed cheating, the teachers should have been able to witness cheating as well. Teachers would also be in the best position to compare students’ in-class work to their homework. Using notes on an exam? Copying homework? How does a teacher not notice multiple copied homework assignments? How do they overlook copying from notes on an exam? Do they leave the room during tests, depending on the honor system?</p>

<p>It looks to me as if the teachers are using the student Honor Code as an excuse to not crack down on cheating. That’s an administration problem, one which a parent should bring up with the head of the school. </p>

<p>An honor code can be great, when everyone takes it seriously. That means the teachers and administration have to enforce it. Otherwise, it seems students are using it as a license to cheat, and the teachers are using it as a license to avoid unpleasantness. However, if an honor code is enforced, cheating drops dramatically. There are not “10 more for every one you take on,” if the school is consistent.</p>

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<p>The one time in HS I reported cheating, nothing came of it. The teacher liked me and knew me to be a good student, but there was no proof. The student denied it and the teacher had no way to verify what I was saying was true. And if the teacher had pursued it, you can bet the parent would be in there, making a fuss (“My precious snowflake would never cheat! She’s a straight A honors AP genius! I demand you punish the teacher for putting her through this trauma, her future is ruined, etc. etc”)</p>

<p>Eventually, like I mentioned, the problem got so bad that to this day, AP classes administer more than one version of a test-- so a fifty question test needs seventy-five questions, and then the questions are randomly picked and randomly ordered both within a class and across sections. And that still doesn’t help. What sometimes helps is that they typically curve all exams in an AP class-- but they threaten that if the test averages increase by period (as the day goes on), they won’t apply the curve to anybody. And from what I know, that’s discouraged some people, but not many.</p>

<p>I became a pretty vocal advocate against cheating-- I generally made myself a nuisance around anybody I saw cheating and made myself a PIA. Talking over people copying homework, being annoying and telling them they were cheating, etc. Eventually, people stopped doing it around me. But I was kidding myself that it no longer continued, and it did lose me a few friends. And I transferred out my junior year into a smaller, residential program, specifically because I did not want to deal with that competitive atmosphere (despite doing well and finishing second in my class of over a thousand that year) and because my blood pressure was borderline hypotensive.</p>

<p>But in HS, the burden of proof is definitely on the teacher, and the administration will, in my experience, back the parents everytime.</p>

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<p>" But, they’re teaching in a private school. If they make little Johnny’s parents angry either by stopping the cheating so that Johnny does not get an A""</p>

<p>Hey, they paid for those A’s.</p>

<p>The lesson for the student when the parent reports anonymously is that the Honor Code doesn’t matter - not for the student, not for the school, and not for his or her parents.</p>

<p>(A truly mature student would turn him/herself in under the Honor Code for not reporting - s/he still wouldn’t report it, and would tell the truth that the reason s/he doesn’t is that s/he doesn’t trust the school to take it seriously. I don’t expect many students would take that option.)</p>

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<p>Honestly the part about reporting violators is as important as not cheating. If cheating isn’t reported, then basically this school has no honor code. And it does affect kids who aren’t cheating, especially at HS level where GPAs and class ranks can affect college acceptances.</p>

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<p>“Furthermore, this is a private, Cathoilc school with a pretty strict honor code. The president of the school’s son was expelled for a whole year when he was caught cheating.”</p>

<p>Part of those codes often state that you must turn in people who cheat. Wait, your D’s school does. So what’s the problem?</p>

<p>A bunch of kids at my high school were blatant cheaters. One was arrested; a few others are doctors. Doctors who might have grown up, or doctors who never learned that up can’t cheat your way through school. </p>

<p>Spill.</p>

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<p>Why would a doctor return to high school to take classes?</p>

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<p>Are now doctors. (Eye roll)</p>

<p>One of my teachers knew that cheating was rampant, and he had the guts to deal with it. Unfortunately, one of those ways was to give my class a substantially harder final exam than the other two classes (that met earlier in the day; kids in my class would get the test questions and answers from them). He used that as an excuse to kill some students’ grades. </p>

<p>Other teachers knew, too, but had no proof. They all but begged people in the class to turn their peers in; my parents advised against it. It’s a decision I regret, because the cheating was so blatant, so continuous, and such a part of life for those people.</p>

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<p>“Why would a doctor return to high school to take classes?”</p>

<p>To brush up on cheating.;)</p>

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<p>Funny story actually, I admitted that I cheated.</p>

<p>I still regret what I have done, even though it was a year ago. I am a junior now at a pretty competitive and big high school. Saying I get excellent grades is a bit modest, and I don’t want to brag or anything. I do feel pressure to get the best in everything, etc. because I wanted to be a doctor at the time.</p>

<p>We were doing a titration lab in Honors Chem, and it was worth a HECK of our grades. We had lab partners to work with too. I trusted my lab partner. The week before the day of the lab, I had a crazy week. I had State Science fair, with a 1st place an perfect score. I guess I let that get to my head at the time. My chemistry teacher (who I am really close with) even went with me. </p>

<p>Doing the lab that day, I was totally FLUSTERED. I mean, I was panicking like crazy. Class was almost ending, and we still couldn’t get accurate results. That was when I just asked my other friends for their numbers. </p>

<p>I knew I totally screwed up, and I couldn’t handle getting away with it and hiding it. I knew my teacher was going to find out. Right away, I went to the guidance, and blatantly told them that I cheated. I FELT HORRIBLE. I knew my teacher was very upset with me. When I told my mom (who is pretty tough on me about grades), she was not angry that I cheated, but that I told him. My older brother thought the same thing. Their reason? that everyone would have the same numbers. I was pretty shocked at their reaction, that they would tell it’s better to cheat than to be honest. I told my dad, and he told me that there needs to be more people in the world like me. </p>

<p>The rest of the week was REALLY tense and awkward between my teacher, lab partner and I. I was constantly fearful around him at the time. He didn’t say a word to me. I asked him, and he said he still needs time to figure things out. At the end of the week, he sat my lab partner and I down.</p>

<p>What he told us was that the last thing he wants to do is mark a permanent record that I cheated when I was being honest. He said he knew that I was totally out of it that day. He said the only thing we could do is redo the lab for half credit. Turns out I had to miss the science fair party, and actually redo the lab in front of them while they celebrated the State victory. I felt horrible. </p>

<p>At times I feel like my teacher remembers this the same way I do. I truly regret doing this, but I am glad I was honest. Where am I now? Well, I have won at the State level again for a second year, earned scholarship money, and I still work closely with him. In fact, he made me officer of the Science Fair Club. My guidance conselour has told me that he couldn’t be any more prouder to have a student like me.</p>

<p>You see, it’s honesty that will take you where you need to be.</p>

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<p>Don’t they already do this every day when submitting bills to Medicare?</p>

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<p>I was having trouble parsing your statement because I assumed that the parents were doctors and couldn’t see how that was relevant.</p>

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<p>It seems to me that there are people out there that will find ANY way to get to success.</p>

<p>That goes for some students. There are classmates at my school that cheat ALL the time, and get better grades than me. The way I see it, is that everyone knows people do it usually once (including myself, not anymore, see my last post), but there’s too much to hassle and penalize not only poor little Johnny and his victimized parents, but other students as well - Teachers have to treat students equally, which goes for here as well - in other words, it would be ‘honest’ to penalize a lot more students than one thought (if that were the case) but is it ‘honestly’ really worth it?</p>

<p>I wish that were possible, but it’s ‘honestly’ too crazy to even risk it. Sad, but true. </p>

<p>‘Honestly’, it’s a tough ethic to think about. I apologize for the cheesy puns.</p>

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<p>“I was having trouble parsing your statement because I assumed that the parents were doctors and couldn’t see how that was relevant.”</p>

<p>I can see how it would be confusing, seeing as I never once mentioned their parents.</p>

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<p>Spygirl told me just the other day that several students in one of her classes have been cheating. Several of them are top students. She laughed it off as because she still gets far better grades than they do and she sees this as their karma. The issue is there is no proof.</p>

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<p>This happens in my school too. There are these “top” kids in my school who switch tests, use cellphones while in class and the teacher says nothing since they are the “good” kids. The rest of us get honest scores and if we do bad then our grades/gpa could get lowered as apposed to someone who cheats. The thing is we are most likely going to be competing with cheaters for college which is the worst part since colleges weight GPA so heavily.</p>