<p>"its how america works, the rich elite, the republicans, even bush went to harvard with c averages"</p>
<p>Haha... I believe Bush went to Yale.</p>
<p>He went to both =) Yale for undergrad and Harvard for a MBA.</p>
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You don't know what their financial situation is. Just because they are 'business-owning people' -- that doesn't mean that they have a higher family income than 'middle class families who work salary paying jobs'.</p>
<p>In fact, many small businesses operate pretty close to the edge, and some operate at a loss some years. The business they own may appear to be flourishing, but their expenses may exceed their income from the business.</p>
<p>On the asset side, converting liquid assets to real estate investments can be a good investment strategy, as well as a smart (and legal and ethical) college financial aid strategy.</p>
<p>You may be right-- they may be defrauding the system. But you can't always tell a families financial situation by outward appearances.
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</p>
<p>You're so full of ****. How can families who can afford BMWs for their son's or daughter's be in a bad financial situation? I don't have a car simply because we truly can't afford to be paying for even a used $3-5k one. If you can afford to buy BMWs you are not in a bad financial situation to pay some college expenses.</p>
<p>I ride 2 trains and a bus to school. You think I wouldn't like to drive a car instead? My family truly can't afford to buy me a car or pay for insurance. This is being in financial need for college. Riding around in BMWs and buying $1 mil homes doesn't count as a bad financial situation.</p>
<p>
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How can families who can afford BMWs for their son's or daughter's be in a bad financial situation? I don't have a car simply because we truly can't afford to be paying for even a used $3-5k one.
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<p>Because you can have anything you want for monthly payments. Just because a person is driving a BMW doesn't mean that they own the car. I knew someone who was driving a BMW and living in the project with no furniture. They could be leasing and writing the expense of the lease off as the cost of doing business especially if their job requires travel.</p>
<p>sblake7 is right - you can't always tell a families financial situation by outward appearances.</p>
<p>IF your friend decides to go to law school it is stil going to be a long time before his parents income/assets are not looked at. If they really are cheating, eventually it will all hit the fan and it's going to be a hell of a mess to get out of.</p>
<p>Don't stress about it because things always come full circle. The school could demand the parents repay the money long after the student has graduated and rescind the degree because of fraud. </p>
<p>Think about it, is this really how you want to live your life constantly looking over your shoulder? Your friend will have to</p>
<p>OP: you are right, your friend should not commit fraud, one thought: some people present their situation with a positive spin that does not reflect the undrlying situation on paper. I knew plenty of contractors who appeared successful yet whose kids would qualify for free/reduced lunches in school. Also people who are self-employed may have fluctuating income, they may buy cars in the good years, for cash, yet struggle to pay the insurance in the lean years. If a lean year hits during the college process that works well for them, but most people like that who I know would prefer to be making twice the money and pay more of the expenses them selves.</p>
<p>People who have income that varies- contractors, realtors, etc., frequently put on the happy/successful face, they cannot have their potential clients know anything but good about them, they learn to buy for cash in good times and survive the bad times, they may have bought their million dollar home 20 years ago for $150,000 and depending on the state (CA?) be better off to keep it and keep their low property tax basis than to sell it and try to pocket the difference when buying a cheaper homes, as there are not homes which are that much cheaper.</p>
<p>Remember, too, if they are self-employed they likley have high deductible minimal health coverage and have to self-fund any retirement. </p>
<p>It is still odd that your friend is tlaking about committing fraud, if their situation is one of the ones I have mentioned she would not need to fake the tax returns!</p>
<p>Today's History Lesson: Congress changed the rules for the Federal Methodology used Fafsa in 1992, which was several president's ago, and when the Democrats controlled Congress.</p>
<p>It sounds like OP's friend's family did some "tuition planning" and hid financial assets to qualify for finanical aid. That may meet the letter of the law but certainly violates the spirit of financial aid programs, which ask families to contribute their fair share to the cost of education. I suppose it is also possible that the "fraud" is an elaborate cover story to explain why one daughter is getting a full ride at Brown. Though I suspect more families would claim a child got a full merit scholarship to an Ivy to hide the fact they quailified for needs-based aid than would brag about bilking the system! Maybe I'm just olfdfashioned, but I believe there is a big difference between using aid programs for which you fairly qualify and cheating. Because that is what hiding assets is.</p>
<p>Stop being angry at the people who beat the system through loopholes. If they have the capacity to do that, power to them, and too bad if they get caught. You are only frustrated because you were too naive to see the tricks of the trade, no matter how illegal. How many of you emptied your savings accounts last year so it wouldn't count againt financial aid? </p>
<p>In short: You're all just jealous</p>
<p>"How can families who can afford BMWs for their son's or daughter's be in a bad financial situation?"</p>
<p>Here's a list of BMW's, none more than 5 years old, that can be had for under 10K:</p>
<p>Just cuz someone drives a BMW doesn't mean they're well off.</p>
<p>And as sybbie said-- many people lease new cars now to keep payments low. So the car is owned by the lease company.</p>
<p>Outward appearances are often deceiving. Lots of toys doesn't mean lots of income. Lots of folks are living beyond their means. Some using home equity to supplement income and make ends meet. Some in huge debt.</p>
<p>How do you know that your friend's sister receives a full-ride to Brown? I don't believe it for a minute. Brown has a significant self-help aid amount, loans, work-study, and FA staff are trained to look for fraud and discrepencies in the financial info submitted.. Unless you have seen the financial aid award letter, I'm guessing it's all BS.</p>
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I ride 2 trains and a bus to school.
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Trying to generate a little sympathy there?...</p>
<p>I'd say people really need to get over these things. There's no point in stressing over it because 1) you can't do anything about it, and 2) the effect (if any) things like this have on you if rather miniscule. Besides..any system exists for the sole purpose of being exploited, financial aid is no different.</p>
<p>Anxiousmom is correct as there is no such thing as a full ride at Brown. While there is increased FA so students do not work freshman year and each student is responsible for the student contribution. </p>
<p>Even if you should get outside scholarships, brown does not allow you to use outside scholarships to wipe out all of your self help.</p>
<p>Outside scholarships can be used to reduce some, but not all, of the following:
Student Contribution from Income (SCI)
Work-Study/Student Employment Expectation
Loans </p>
<p>gotta remember when people are talking about money, especially other people's money; life is about the spin and people are only going to tell you what they want you to know.</p>
<p>$5850, $5850, $6200, $6200 - Student loan amounts shown in the sample fA package at the Brown website. $24100 in student loans after 4 years. (DD took one look at the loan component of Brown and Wesleyan and decided not to apply!)</p>
<p>Ok, I found out that my friend's sister pays $5,000 a year tuition, which includes room and board, not a full ride. But still, that is significantly less than the $40,000+ a Brown education costs. However, I am sure that their family is no where near poor. Her mom told my mom and me that she began hiding their business's assets five years before her eldest daughter began high school. I guess it was pretty clever on her behalf, but my point is that this just ruins to point of financial aid--to help families who actually need the money.</p>
<p>lmao, the best to run a business(i run one as a college freshman to be) is to have a debt between 20-200g. so basically, whenever you get rid of something, (ie. sell something out of your warehouse), you want to spend the money somehow. buy a benz, a new house, give it to your mom. do whatever possible to keep your company at debt. you dont pay taxes, you dont pay college tuition. done deal.</p>
<p>The top universities such as Brown do not actually have a 'fund' for financial aid, do they? (Considering the billions of endowment present.) </p>
<p>It seems that they will basically pay for whatever it takes for an admitted student to attend there within reason - as in 100% of the need that the university has determined exists.</p>
<p>If this is the case, look on the bright side. Even as morally dubious as it might be, at least them "cheating the system" so to speak is not directly preventing truly needful students from receiving aid from those schools.</p>
<p>I doubt the same can be said at the smaller colleges which can't meet all students' aid... but then, those colleges also don't have sky-high admissions fees that students must pay.</p>
<p>I have been a lurker for a while, off and on. I've noticed a number of threads where this family or that student is lying or cheating, and benefiting greatly from the fraud. In every endeavor, there is unfortunately those trying to beat the system, particularly when there is money involved. I have absolutely no doubt that there are those who are getting more financial aid than they deserve through dishonest means. There is no surprise there. If you have definitive proof that can be verified, and you feel that this is a moral outrage worth addressing, you can call the financial aid department of the school and let them know what is happening.
Usually, there is no such verifiable proof. There are a number of families who live high on the hog with negative assets--they owe more they than they own. Somehow they are able to spin loan after loan to finance high profile consumer goods. The house can be mortgaged to the hilt, or in grandma's name because the old lady has money. The fancy cars can be leased by the business (perhaps not legitimately considering the use). There are a number of explanations for high living, and that type of information is generally not shared with others, even close friends. Off shore investments, a non traceable tru****nd are certainly more glamorous explanations. As the poster, Sybbie noted, you really don't know how much money someone has, regardless of the spin.<br>
I have heard so many stories of full rides, full scholarships, academic awards that were just plain not true. Some from friends--a woman I know showed me an award letter so I saw her child's award. The story circulating was a full ride, full scholarship. Absolutely not true. And the family pretty much supported the story. </p>
<p>I feel strongly that if something illegal is occurring, and there is substantial evidence, there is some obligation to report the transgression, particularly if it is hurting others. That goes for felonies as well as other provable illegal deeds. Particularly if you are involved in the theft (example working as an accountant for a business illegally hiding assets, and you are assisting in the deal. But without proof, only talk and outward signs, there may well be nothing there. Better you keep your eyes on your own money and situation rather than speculating about what others', unless there is lesson that you can learn and use in your own circumstance. </p>
<p>I don't know why I picked this thread to post. So many excellent posts, so much information on College confidential.</p>
<p>I don't know what school you go to but DS school audited us 4 years running and we didn't apply for FA other than Unsubsidized Stafford and PLUS loans, and maintenance on an institutional grant because of his stats. The Fafsa also corrected a $2.00 error (in the government's favor) in the 1040 which the Fafsa notified us but the IRS did not. </p>
<p>We/he still eventually paid a little over 80% of his COA at CMU. You do the math and find out what the dollar cost is. When he started in '02 the COA was a bit over $36k, when he was accepted it was -$34K. When he finished in '06, the COA was +$43K.</p>
<p>When I first completed the FAFSA, I realized how easily it was to perform the hat trick that the "friend" was able to do. For us, the situation was too late to make financial planning adjustment. </p>
<p>While I may thank GWB for some of his fiscal policies that immediately benefit me, I still think GWB is an Idiot and such policies in the longterm will be detrimental to the Nation.</p>
<p>I'm officially a lurker since son finished in May'06. Now that you got your toe wet in CC, see how comfortable it is by a whole immersion.</p>
<p>CMU is a "merit" school and admits on its website that it practices "enrollment management" in order to husband its <$1bill endowement and to selectively attract and maintain its student body.</p>