Cheers, can you help in with architect stuff?

Parents Forum
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<p>Sorry. Are you saying that star professors only lead the Option Studios?</p>

<p>Think about the ten best designers from your class, the class below and the class ahead. How many have BArchs? How many have BScArchs? How many have BAs? Just curious. I know it's a random survey.</p>

<p>Also, how many of those who are considered the best are women--presuming that 50% of the class is female....(Preliminary glance through 2004 Option Studio selections indicates HGD preference for male work....)</p>

<p>Thanks...very interesting...</p>

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<p>hhmm...</p>

<p>so far i have taken in the advice that:</p>

<p>-maybe i should stay in CPP for landscape architect and try to switch over to arch. </p>

<p>because after all, CalPoly Pomona is a good school right? does it really matter about the name of the school or does it matter after when you're going to grad?</p>

<p>-call facilities to see the acceptance rate of transfers(am i correct?)</p>

<p>-go to grad. after(what is a good grad program/school? SCIARC? i would like to stay in the west coast area.but the east is fine with me i guess)</p>

<p>-how long does it take to get B.arch? what's after? what must one architect do to pursue after b.arch?(such as courses,grad?)</p>

<p>for SCIARC, i don't really have a portfolio. i dont have a professional portfolio, but i do have alot of autocad projects(such as houses, cabins, etc that i designed and built). Im undergoing advance arch. in my highschool right now. that's what got me into architect.</p>

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<p>Right. Consider getting started with Landscape Arch at Ca;Poly and see where that takes you.</p>

<p>Specific transfer info: <a href="http://www.csupomona.edu/%7Earc/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.csupomona.edu/~arc/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It usually takes five years to get a BArch.</p>

<p>I_Wonder posted a good website for assessing portfolios. Check out the published student's work for an idea of what impresses grad school adcoms.</p>

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<p>I_Wonder.....I was wondering....oops, I should not have started out that way, LOL...you were saying that 50% in the MArchI program at Harvard Design school have no prior architecture background. In other words, they did not come out of a five year BArch degree program. However, what about those who got a BA in architecture in a liberal arts setting? I always thought there were three educational paths to becoming an architect (please correct me if I am mistaken)...</p>

<p>One....do a five year BArch program.
Two....major in architecture and get a BA (sort of like pre-architecture) and then go to grad school for a MArch.
Three....have no prior background or major as an undergrad and go to grad school for MArch but for longer than someone who did option TWO above. </p>

<p>I have a daughter contemplating this field. She has opted for option two above. She just finished her freshman year in college which she entered with considering becoming an architect but wanted to do a major in a liberal arts degree, rather than the five year BArch. She is considering majoring in architectural studies. She has already taken some courses with the major in mind. This summer she also will be doing the six week immersion in architecture (Career Discovery) at the Harvard Design School. </p>

<p>Now, upon reading your earlier post, I can't tell if you are lumping students who did a BA with a major in architecture in the category of those without any background in architecture in your statistics of who is the grad school at your school. I realize a BA is nothing like a BArch but I would have thought that someone with a BA in architecture would be ahead of someone with NO architecture in their prior education. If possible, could you comment further about what you meant in that categorization of the make up of the class at HDS? As a point of reference, my D is at Brown and can and will be taking some courses at RISD too. But clearly she would be majoring in architecture, not in a professional degree program in this field. Do you see students like that in your grad program? In any case, she is looking forward to coming to your school this summer. The program seems tailor made to where she is at in her "discovery" or exploration of her career path. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Here is a description of MI and MII programs.<a href="http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/academic/arch/degrees.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/academic/arch/degrees.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And the requirements for MI--differentiating between BScArch/BAArch and BAs. <a href="http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/academic/arch/MArch%20I.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/academic/arch/MArch%20I.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Interesting comments from I_Wonder.</p>

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<p>for soozievt.
I was saying that 50% of the people in the M.Arch1 program (for people WITHOUT B.Archs) have no Architecture experience. The M.Arch1 program in 3.5 years long, unless you get AP standing and you only have to do 2.5 years. Only like 8 people out of a class of 60 get AP standing, and they usually went to one of 2 schools (Michigan or UF).Anyone who doesn't have a B.Arch degree would be entering the M.Arch1 program.
Your daughter (because she wouldn't have a B.Arch)would be in the M.Arch1 program.
All M.Arch2s have a B.Arch, and our program is 1.5 years long. We don't do the 'core', and we dont have a set curriculum. </p>

<p>The M.Arch1 program has like 220 people/ 53% women
The M.Arch1 AP 20 people/ 26% women
The M.Arch2 60 people/ 20% women</p>

<p>For Cheers, I AM saying that the big name stars usually only teach options. The core curriculum and design problems are 'set', and it wouldn't allow these guest professors to create their own design problems for exploration. In fact, whenever they have starchitects teach core it is always a problem because they stray from the curriculum and the students feel like they didn't learn the skills that their other classmates did. The complaint is that they want to learn the "harvard methodology" in core and explore in options.
Plus, leading core studios for people who don't have previous arch experience requires more one on one interaction than a visiting faculty can provide. These people usually have thriving practices elsewhere and they can't fly in every single week to check on their students. Some of them who are from overseas only come in 2 a month (I think that is how many times the GSD pays for them to come). Some pay out of their pocket to come more often. </p>

<p>A typical options studio has about 12 people, and I would say that in MY opinion, the best 2 projects have always been people who had a B.Arch. For the M.Arch1s, the best projects that I have seen have always been from people who had a B.S arch or some previous undergrad design experience. </p>

<p>It does seem that studioworks preferences men. I've seen the reviews of a lot of those studios and they don't always put the 'best' projects into to it. Im not going to lie, a lot of these teachers are male and they tend to preference nominating their "buddies", guys in the studio who kiss up to them constantly and hang out in their office and such. I must say, the guys at this school are more aggressive than the women in getting to know professors and getting this to work in their favor. Its not fair, but it works.</p>

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<p>Thanks for those succinct and frank posts. It didn't sound believeable coming from an older-than-dirt architect (namely moi) ;).</p>

<p>From my point of view, architecture is a tough, uber-competitive, male-dominated field, doubly tough for BA/MArch candidates and double that for women--at the top levels; (big name offices, bigger work).</p>

<p>On the other hand, it's sad how little has changed since the 1970's-80's. It probably won't change until construction changes to 50% women.</p>

<p>haha.</p>

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<p>shameless bump--mostly because the observations from I_Wonder are keen and unusually frank.</p>

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<p>ill see if i can come up with more questions. i know there's more. i just can't think of any.</p>

<p>i keep on thinking, maybe i should go to CC for 2 years and go to a better schook, you know what i mean?</p>

<p>is it better for the long run? do jobs really care whhere you come from or what you got?</p>

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<p>what employers want to see is experience. what do you bring to the table? internships? a portfolio of projects? a college transcript is just a piece of paper. that's what makes the polytechnics valuable as well as many of the design schools like cooper union.</p>

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<p>Drj is right about the experience. You have can't just graduate with a degree and a smile! I had a couple of friends who graduated from architecture school with absolutely NO internship experience and so/so portfolios. It took well over a year for them to find jobs.</p>

<p>Also an interesting note for Cheers...there was a small uproar today at the GSD over a little study that some DDes (doctor of design) students did about the ratio of men to women representation in the studioworks publications. Officially its a 50/50 ratio, but when you take out the landscape department (which is about 85% female) it shoots up to 68% men. Hmm...</p>

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<p>As an architect with a 20 year old practice, I'd say experience counts but it is a particular kind of experience. A couple of years detailing big box retail will not make a grad a better prospect. A couple of years detailing high-end buidlings will make a grad a better prospect. That is why top offices make better job experiences. Top offices design and build high end work. Interns learn how to detail stone and copper instead of vinyl and 2 x 4 lay-in ceilings.</p>

<p>Initially, superb drafting skills and speedy drafting skills got the job. Now it is speedy, amazing, CAD skills, CAD rendering etc. If you look at the GSD studio publication, note how sophisticated the drawings are. Those are top drawer CAD skills. Thus it ever was. (This is part of the reason BA students can't can't play at the top levels in grad schools. BArchs arrive with superior CAD skills. Hint for BAs: Go to grad school with amazing CAD skills if you want respect.)</p>

<p>(vyan, if your CAD skills are good, you might consider getting a drafting job before you go to school. A CAD Gap Year. I saw Frank Gehry listing jobs on craigslist. Work for Gehry for a year and go anywhere you like, haha).</p>

<p>Employers also look for talent. Believe it or not, talent sticks out of a portfolio like a sore thumb. Talented architects can spot talented grads quite easily. A talented employee with unbelieveable CAD skills would be golden in the job market. </p>

<p>A grad can lift their talent by working in a top architect's office, by learning the design 'systems' of a top architect. </p>

<p>I_wonder: Oooooh. I love small uproars! No hmmmmms about it. As you say, it's not fair but it's not going to change. And, in my opinion, it is related to the 99% male construction industry; ie nothing will change. It's nice to see them feeling bad about it for a minute--before they clean up all the top spots in the profession. :)</p>

<p>Another tip: a major portion of architecture education plays into The Fame Game. It is slightly helpful getting those first few jobs with top archtiects but it is a deadly spiral after that point. My advice would be to get a few years of top top experience in New York or LA and then open your own practice and forget the fame thing. Giant waste of time and no fun if you do get a bit of fame. No fun at all. </p>

<p>Anonymous life = wonderful life....</p>

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<p>what's a drafting job? what are good ones?</p>

<p>should i start getting internships when i enter pomona as freshmen landscape architect?</p>

<p>so pomona would be a good choice of school since the area offers alot of internships?</p>

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<p>oh yea, can you also tell me the path of an architect. </p>

<p>like, go to school for this many years to earn this
and after this many years, you earn that
and so on. what would be best path to take? include like internships or whatever.</p>

<p>i still havent talked to pomona about switching majors yet. what happens if i can't switch? am i screwed?</p>

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<p>vyan;
Great info in the posts above. You must do some research and answer the basic questions yourself.</p>

<p>re: draughtsman. Look on : <a href="http://losangeles.craigslist.org/egr/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://losangeles.craigslist.org/egr/&lt;/a> Many of the jobs listed are for CAD draghtsman; ie the person who draws the design on the computer using CAD.</p>

<p>The questions about switching should probably be directed toward Cal Poly staff: <a href="http://www.csupomona.edu/%7Ela/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.csupomona.edu/~la/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Cheers, I_Wonder and any other architecture-gurus,</p>

<p>I've been following this thread and hoped someone would ask the questions that have been lurking around the edge of my consciousness, still unformed. In other words, I don't know enough about the topic to articulate intelligent questions, so please bear with me. :)</p>

<p>My son just finished his second year at Williams and decided to major in art history with a supplemental dose of art studio. He is an excellent "draw-er" (I'm not sure if that's the same as draftsman/draftsperson?) and has had a lifelong love affair with architecture. He is well traveled and extremely knowledgeable on the subject of international architecture, ancient and contemporary. His computer skills are good, but under-developed.</p>

<p>Williams offers a handful of architecture related courses -- architectural drawing plus some world-class art history courses with an architectural bent. Every year there are a fair number of graduates who go on to study architecture.</p>

<p>This summer, like Soozievt's daughter, he's going to take a month long "So you think you're interested in Architecture" course -- his is at Columbia, to try to get a feel of whether this is a field that he would like to devote three plus years of graduate study to.</p>

<p>I deduce from reading through the thread that my son would fall into the category of no prior architecture training and therefore would be looking at an M.Arch1 program for another 3.5 years. (Yikes!)</p>

<p>Here are some of those wobbly questions:
Do all architecture schools have M.Arch1 and M.Arch2?
Which do you consider the top 10 schools in the US?
How do Cooper Union and SCIARC differ from an architecture school at a university say like UMich or Yale?
Are some M.Arch1 programs more friendly to kids with non-architectural BA degrees than others?
What kind of GPA do you need to get into of these schools?
Or is the portfolio the more important element?
What's a typical cost for the M.Arch1 program? Any possibility of grants, scholarships?</p>

<p>Thus far most of his internship experience has been museum related, another strong career contender. The possibility of museum work with an architectural focus is also a possibility. I wonder what kind of degree(s) that would require.</p>

<p>My son is definitely a "people person." (He loves leading the museum tours.) His biggest concern with architecture is that it would be too introverted. I know that sales and customer interface is a BIG part of any firm's focus. So the question is -- I guess -- at what point do they let you near the clients?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Do all architecture schools have M.Arch1 and M.Arch2?

[/quote]

Yes and No. Some schools, like Cooper, only offer BArch. Schools that offer MArch tend to offer the two tracks for the reasons discussed in this thread. It is critical to assess each March program to determine if it is a full vital program or an add-on to a vital BArch program.
With a recent degree from Cornell, I<em>Wonder is an amazing source of grad school assessment--as he/she has seen many top peers matriculate.

[quote]
Which do you consider the top 10 schools in the US?

[/quote]

This depends. Does your son want ot work for top architects and open a practice in LA or New York City? Does he want to move his practice around the world? If so, the top school list matters. A regional degree won't keep him out of New York but a top degree will help. Not in order, my favorites for practising architects would be: Cooper, Cornell, SCIARC, Columbia, Yale, UCB, AA in London, Princeton. Harvard and Princeton for teaching. If he is not heading for the above, he would be fine and probably happy at most regional schools.

[quote]
How do Cooper Union and SCIARC differ from an architecture school at a university say like UMich or Yale?

[/quote]

Intensity? Their students are obsessed. Their interactions are confined to other architects. Other, amazingly talented architects.
The level of peer talent at Cooper is...unbeatable. Free tuition means they recruit the best talent in the world and bring it together in downtown Manhattan. Pretty heady stuff.
The Cooper policy of acceptance varies. Some years they like older students with degrees, some years they only want 18 year olds.

[quote]
Are some M.Arch1 programs more friendly to kids with non-architectural BA degrees than others?

[/quote]

Honestly, I don't think so. It is a profession based on talent showcased by skill. MArch I students enter a highly competitive arena without competitive skills. Your son needs the competitive environment to graduate with competitive skills and a realistic idea of peer talent. Friendly wouldn't be a help in this circumstance.

[quote]
What kind of GPA do you need to get into of these schools?
Or is the portfolio the more important element?

[/quote]

Portfolio trumps all--but a dull GPA would have to present an amazing portfolio.

[quote]
What's a typical cost for the M.Arch1 program? Any possibility of grants, scholarships?

[/quote]

Cooper tuition is free but that's a BArch--though worth considering if your son has huge creative talent and if Cooper takes older students that year.
The rest are hugely expensive. Typically, universities aren't keen to throw money at architecture students because the majority of them do not earn a fortune. They are unlikely to become top donors.<br>
I</em>Wonder may give you a better read, but that would be a fair generalization. It would be interesting to know if students with BArchs get preference--because they arrive with a quantifiable talent. Gender may also play a part, favoring men.</p>

<p>It is not an introspective field. Successful architects tend to be extroverts or social introverts. He will discover that this summer. It is a highly collaborative field. If he wants client interaction, he will probably have to open his own firm. There are a number of firms that specialize in museum display. He might try to intern at one prior to opening his own practice.</p>

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<p>hey cheers,</p>

<p>i just emailed them about swtiching majors. here is the email</p>

<p>"In order to change majors you will need to be an upper division student, meaning that ALL of your lower division GEs have been completed, you have a minimum GPA of 3.2 and the "Golden Four" have been completed by the end of the FALL Quarter you are applying in. You MUST have received a grade of "C" in the Golden Four and "C-" does NOT count. The Golden Four are: college -level English, Speech, Critical Thinking and Math 106, change of major forms are ONLY accepted in the month of November for the following Fall quarter."</p>

<p>do you still think it's worth it still continuing my education as landscape architect and switching majors at pomona? after reading momrath and how you listed the top ten schools made reconsider if pomona will be the best place to practice architecture. you think i can go to pomona and transfer to SCIARC after my GE courses or any other place rather than going to CC? i'm not sure i'll furnish a portfolio during those years. what are the benefits of working for a TOP architect and for non-top one? more money? what would your take for this situation be? please, HELP ME!! I NEED SOME INPUT! i don't have parents who care about my education. im all independent and it's always grateful that a person like you is helping me.</p>

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<p>vyan! You're a bit of a worry...:D</p>

<p>Let me tell you something about good architects and landscape architects. They have nerves of steel. They build things that last hundreds of years. They have the guts to believe in their decisions. Steely nerves give them the confidence to build long lasting structures. They do not second guess themselves. </p>

<p>vyan, you might try to practice self-confidence. Architects who don't develop a steely self-confidence do not build. They work for other architects.</p>

<p>You made a decision to apply to Pomona. I think it was a good decision. I think you are lucky to have a spot at such a good school. I think you will learn HUGE HUGE amounts during the next year. I think you will be able to answer your questions by the end of the first year. You will. I promise.</p>

<p>I think you can be a very successful architect or landscape architect with a degree from Cal Poly. Very successful. You will probably meet lots of successful Pomona grads next year. Ask for their advice.</p>

<p>I look forward to your posts from next year. I hope you discover that you are a wildly talented landscape architect!</p>

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<p>Interesting dialogue but let me add my $0.02. I attended Yale Architecture more years ago than I care to remember and left the profession early in my career for financial reasons. I just made more money as a real estate developer and was also more creative. The thing about Architecture school is that it can also be used as a vehicle to springboard in Real Estate, planning, law, contracting, woodworking, furniture making, etc. Heck! at one point in my life I was a silent partner in a plumbing supply business and sold it. Those profits are now paying my older son's four years at Yale College. You should keep your options open and see where life takes you would be my suggestion.</p>