<p>My Chem lab TA's really are bad. I told my parents on the phone today that having all these kids taking chem lab with little to no competant teaching skills on the TA's part and lacking leadership is like a mass killing of people (students). One poor girl in my chemistry lab today broke down sobbing because she got a little bit lost and froze. No one could comfort her because we had to do our own labwork, and maybe assistance could be viewed as an Honor Code violation. It was pitiful. Why does UVA play this game?? Is it to deliberately weed people out of the pre-med world?? </p>
<p>This semester there are spots for about something like 950 students, next semester on the COD there are only spots for 650 students. 300 for Gerrans, and 350 for Metcalf. Harman is not teaching. Where are the roughly other 300 students to go???---Weeded out???</p>
<p>What can I do to help my chances in Chem lab??? I'm a dedicated student who works very diligently. I don't really feel like I need a tutor, because I understand exactly what I need to do--science wise, but if there is one mistake here or there in Chem lab, zero credit is given. Where is the teaching, why am I paying for this? </p>
<p>I have not checked any of the spelling or math in this posting--so anyone who wants to go there, please don't.</p>
<p>Please post or PM me with any advice on how to get a better handle on Chem lab expectations. Again, I'm bright, and study real hard--I feel like I just need some guidance and "head's up" advice. Thanks. Oh, and if anyone does advise a tutor I'd be more than happy to entertain this concept, name and #? I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place though in that I understand everything just fine, it's the nuts and bolts in the lab and lack of quality guidance there.</p>
<p>If it makes you feel better, we never finish our physics labs and thus automatically lose 10 points. I really don't know what to tell you, other than labs REALLY suck, and that applies anywhere. My best suggestion is contact the lab coordinator (you should have their name/email or something either in your lab manuel or in an email somewhere...if not, go talk to a head in the chem dept, they'll point you in the right direction) and try to meet with him to discuss what you should do better. But that's the key: the TA isn't wrong here, you're just not performing (it sounds harsh, and that isn't my view, but that's how labs work unfortunately) to their expectations. Talk to him to see if he can help you and see how your next lab goes. If he/it isn't helpful, go to a head person in the department. I know it's a long shot, but the only way to get better scores is to find out what they want for a perfect score.</p>
<p>I dont know if you'd like to share, but what are your scores? Are they that bad?</p>
<p>Also, they'll add more spots into classes most likely. This may only be a guess because some people may end their chem requirements after the first class.</p>
<p>My initial grades are pretty good. In Chem lecture I have an A-, and have been doing well in chem lab too up until today. Well, I don't know if I did badly. We had to identify a compound, so I have submitted my answer and am in limbo right now until I get my results. Like I've said previously, I know exactly what to do scientifically, but in the lab and with lack of hands-on experience in this world, and no quality guidance, I feel a bit lost.
Your physics lab sounds just as cruddy as my chemistry lab. So, what to do--take it in the summer?? Is that better, less students, more laid back, more attention?? Take at another institution--that kind of blows, since I actually wanted to go to UVA and looked forward to this education?
I guess I could find Burnett, the head of the lab coordination, I hate to say this, but I feel like a number--not a person. I'm skeptical that I'd get personal help and a pep talk.
Hey maybe I'll transfer to VT!!! What -do-you-say!! The grass is greener........!</p>
<p>Oh man, I'm gonna get clobbered with the VT remark! Oh heck, my Mom went there (lived in Eggleston), and she loved the chemistry department there, both General and Organic--that was a long time ago. We're going together to the UVA vs. VT game after Thanksgiving. WahooWa! Hokie-High!</p>
<p>Why do you think it would be better at VT? Lol their endowment is 1/10 of UVAs and their student body is a solid notch below. I don't think you should consider transferring because your premed labs blow. You know what? They blow everywhere. Just suck it up and get through them. The quality of education at UVA is excellent, but labs for intro classes generally receive low priority. Whether you like it or not, those classes are about learning basic material, not about having some sort of grand intellectual experience. sv3a has gotten As in just about all the premed courses and he never complains.</p>
<p>Ah! Thanks for replying Cav302--of course I'd never seriously consider transferring to VT. It's a great school, but I've got my own great school here on TJ's grounds.
Your advice is good, I'm gonna suck it up and get through them. I'm really not looking for a "grand intellectual experience" though--lab wise, I just don't want to eff up my GPA with cruddy grades when I feel like I'm doing all I can do on my part. Superficial reason, yes, I yam what I yam.
My VT remarks were playfully directed at Shoebox, who as you surely know, has transferred from VT. I was never truly serious, but the football game should be a nice one!</p>
<p>FWIW, people complain about labs in intro classes at every university and the situation is not much different at UVA than it is at some of the other highly-endowed, highly-ranked schools I considered in high school. At least your grade in the lecture section is completely under your control. As long as you're getting in the B+ to A- range on everything, I wouldn't really worry.</p>
<p>My grandmother told me about her old chem labs (she went to UPenn before classes were coed, and so on, so she was a super braniac). One lab was entirely what you were talking about - the entire semester, they had to work with whatever obscure sample and identify it, and that was their entire grade.</p>
<p>Guess what happened when she got her first job - she got 20 of those types of samples, and had until the end of the day to do what had taken her a semester in college - identify them all.</p>
<p>And she worked at a hospital after majoring in biology.</p>
<p>So honestly, that's something you just need to be able to do. Competency on the part of the TA's would help, but the assignment is no where near unrealistic.</p>
<p>Good luck with it all, I know Chem is harsh here. Honestly... You sound like you'll do fine. Just do your best and you'll proly end up with whatever grade you need, since I'm sure a lot of people are doing MUCH worse than you are.</p>
<p>I don't know much about these chem labs, since I took 181L where our 'experiments' were sitting in a computer lab messing around with molecules on a screen. From what I gather, though, these labs aren't as bad as orgo lab is, but much better than biology and physics labs. The labs' primary purpose is to definitely weed out everyone, because 99.9% of them are premeds (majors typically do the 80s series). It's that way for several reasons. Tons of people come in thinking they want to be doctors without realizing really what that entails, so classes like chem lab are there to separate the smartest and most committed from the rest, as well as to give a small taste as to what the 8 year long process to become an intern/resident is like. And if someone can't handle the pressure of a basic chemistry lab that involves high school AP material, how are they going to handle the pressures of the MCAT and being in charge of people's lives as a student/resident/doctor? </p>
<p>I don't know what the grading scheme for 141L is, but generally there is a curve for premed courses. It probably feels equally tough or more for the vast majority of the other students in the class, so you just need to do better than them. You aren't really there to learn- that's for the lecture course- you're really there just to survive. It's not like high school where great grades were easy to come by. Considering that most people get B-s or lower, pulling off a B+ in one of the most competitive (I wouldn't call it 'hard' necessarily, but it definitely is competitive) courses you will take in college can be seen as a major victory. Even if you get a B or B-, you will be taking plenty of courses in college that will easily make up for that. A C or lower will probably be a problem, though it doesn't seem like you're that deep into the situation. </p>
<p>Premed req labs and lectures are always expanded or added to accommodate everyone who wants to take them. The COD probably only looks like that now because they haven't decided who will be teaching the third section. If you could talk to Burnett, you should, because he's a really nice guy. I had him for organic chemistry, but I don't think he's teaching that anymore. He really did try hard so everyone could succeed in orgo despite the subject's bad reputation.</p>
<p>Basically, not ALL premed courses are like chem lab. I would say the big time weeders are chem lab, orgo (if you take it with anyone other than Burnett), orgo lab, and the biology major classes if you decide to major in biology (you shouldn't if you want to do premed). The other labs you have to take aren't even half as bad. Biology lab is a refreshing course to take after you've been bogged down with chem and orgo. It's very relaxed, noncompetitive (most people get As/A-s), and the new rooms we just moved into are very nice. You also work in groups. Physics lab is a bit annoying because it's a bunch of busy work and they make you do a ton of stuff in a limited amount of time, but the curve is pretty generous, there aren't any exams, and it's also groupwork</p>
<p>jimmyjam: i know plenty of people in the chem dept at VT and they say the same thing, and i agree: chem labs blow. all labs do. oh and i lived in eggleston main too! best dorm on campus probably. but seriously if you have a B or better, you're fine. Chem labs are hit or miss, and since you understand the lecture, so it seems, you'll do fine later on in courses. From my guess, it's a 1-credit lab anyways so it won't sink your gpa, but if it's attached to the lecture grade, if you have an A- in there, you're fine.
sv3a's post pretty much hit it on the nail though.</p>
<p><em>cries self to sleep because he has time to chug lots of cheap beer and will on day make many times more money than ehiunno, unless ehiunno gets a quant job on the street or a gig with DE Shaw, but even then cav might be making more, but i guess ehiunno might also end up at a hedge fund, which would be studly but improbable, and so the self-loathing and shame continue</em></p>
<p>Gosh, you all must think I'm a basket-case! Thanks for the advice, I think I'm doing as well as I can right now, and I'm just trying to stay ahead of the game. sv3a, your posting and summary of the process is much appreciated. I think I will try to talk to Burnett. Do you recommend any summer courses, like Organic in the summer, of course depending on who is teaching it?</p>
<p>cav, thanks for reaffirming my hatred for my major. jerk. i get to give an e-school tour today and i'm having basically an 'i-hate-the-eschool' week...it's going to take a lot of self control to not just burst out the "you dont want to go into engineering! please! save yourself now!". gaaahhhhhhhhhhhh</p>
<p>jimmyjam, taking those courses during the summer presents an entirely different set of difficulties/woes, and I think most medical schools prefer to see you take them during the semester (unless you're a chem/biochem/bio major with many more courses in the department).</p>
<p>lol, you can do TONS of stuff with an engineering degree. If you can do well there, employers are going to realize how valuable you will be to them. One of my friends graduated with a BME degree and immediately started working in consulting in DC making 120K a year, with a bonus soon I think. Everyone else there graduated from Princeton, Harvard, etc. but the engineering degree from UVA outweighs a lot of degrees those people got. He now has several other offers, including a 250K a year job in Iraq. Of course, it's easy to become an engineer and work in a cubicle all your life, but it's just as easy to do that with most other majors.</p>
<p>I've heard organic chem and organic chem lab are easier over the summer. You could try taking that then if you want to. Not only will it be easier, but you'll seriously lift the load of the regular semester so you can have more time to focus on your other classes and do exceptionally well in them. The main problem, though, is that I've heard medical schools don't like to see premed reqs taken over the summer. I haven't verified this fully, but it seems that way despite numerous people I know taking some reqs over the summer. In fact, I took physics I this summer, but I did it mainly because I wanted to have time to do lab research this semester. Maybe if you have a good reason they'll let it slip by, or maybe they don't care at all.</p>
<p>Only problem, sv3a, is that many engineers do want to pursue straight-up engineering jobs, and those are very mundane jobs with mediocre pay. I worked with engineers over the summer at in a fairly competitive environment and wasn't too impressed. The last place I'd want to find myself in 30 years is working in a cubicle doing repetitive, unoriginal work while taking orders from some MBA 20 years younger who's making twice as much.</p>
<p>Remember, engineers can get those consulting jobs, but so can just about any other major.</p>
<p>sv3a: my complaint is not the lack of opporunities post-college. Instead, it's that I probably won't end up in hardcore engineering job, so why the heck am i abusing myself during my last four years of bliss before the real world?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The last place I'd want to find myself in 30 years is working in a cubicle doing repetitive, unoriginal work while taking orders from some MBA 20 years younger who's making twice as much.
[/quote]
amen...it's why i'm getting an MBA and not doing what I did this summer at my crummy internship</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
so why the heck am i abusing myself during my last four years of bliss before the real world?
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Because a Yale Econ, Commerce, etc major who is hiring people is going to be much more impressed with a BME or EE or whatever degree from UVA than a social science degree, something they've already accomplished at a much better institution, from UVA. You're basically on top of the competition, barring some abysmal GPA, with a legitimately hard degree that takes skills far beyond that of a simple social science major (like mine.. politics), and people from Harvard, Princeton, and comparable schools are smart enough to realize that. The average prospect from the E-School isn't that good, but neither is the average prospect from almost any other major.</p>