<p>First off, I was accepted to Cornell ED College of Arts and Science, intended major being Chemistry and Chemical biology. However, I am now vacillating between staying in Chem or transferring to Chemical Engineering if i can. Here is what I need to decide</p>
<p>Chemistry</p>
<br>
<p>Pros
-Something I'm proficient at
-Maybe easier, less workload
Cons
-No money
-Bad job opportunities
-Too research based and too little application</p>
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<p>Chemical Engineering:</p>
<br>
<p>Pros
-Money
-Job opportunities
-Money(I cannot stress its importance, but this does not mean I'm only there for money, but it is a very important consideration)
-Interesting for me
Cons
-I have subpar math and physics
-Will not survive course load
-Little experience w/ computer programming
-Not much experience with engineering</p>
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<p>I need suggestions deciding which major to choose eventually. I know for a fact Chem E will be hard and difficult, especially for me, but I wont be able to make a living with Chemistry. Both are intellectually intriguing to me, although im much more familiar with Chem. Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>You’ll be able to make a living with Chemistry, so don’t worry about that. However, if math (and to a lesser extent physics) gives you trouble, Chemistry is going to be no walk in the park either. If Chemistry is what you like, go for it. Graduate school is always an option. But even without that, Chemistry majors get jobs… I’m almost sure.</p>
<p>Go with chemical engineering and figure out a way to survive the math and physics. I wouldn’t worry about computer program or a lack of engineering experience. (I am a from a small resort town in Montana)</p>
<p>Do you plan on (or rather, even like the idea of) going to graduate school? Work in a lab over a summer and see if you can see yourself doing research. If so, you might stick with chemistry as you can make a fine living working in chemistry R&D. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if you’re planning on graduating with a BS and entering into the workforce, I would go with the engineering degree.</p>
<p>How do you know you can’t handle the course load if you don’t at least try? I’m not an expert by any stretch but it seems that chemistry and chemical engineering might share some freshman year classes. You may be able to decide during that first year what truly interest you.</p>
<p>As far as physics is concerned, I had an difficult experience with it my first go around too. Some of the material was completely over my head at the time. However, I am finding that it is much easier to understand the second time through. I find myself understanding all of the concepts now that I did not understand during my first course. So, I would not worry about the physics part until you give it a second try (maybe you already have, but if you haven’t I would give it a shot)</p>
<p>the first two years of the curriculum are likely the same.
difference: you may not have to take the whole organic chem sequence as a chem E and/or the labs.
on the other hand, you will probably take a sequence on mass/energy balances and engr thermo your second year. plus some introductory programming classes (possibly your first year)</p>
<p>something to keep in mind: chem engr doesnt teach you that much chem. ive worked in research labs and seen several very good chem engrs struggle with based topics that any third year chem major would know.
not to say that they cant learn it, but topics in inorganic, advance organic synthesis (Suzuki rxn?)/arrow pushing out the wazzo, and several of the various analytical tools (NMR, mass spec, ir/uv vis… too many to list…) are things that you will pick up with a chem degree but you dont seem to get as much with a chem e.</p>
<p>the core of the chemical engr curriculum seems to be your senior design project which is likely to be something along the lines of “design a chemical reactor with the following conditions.” these can be reactors that provide power or reactors that make chemicals (how would you make advil on the scale of thousands of tons? how do would you separate/move these chemicals?) [can someone else verify this?]</p>
<p>things to keep in mind:
the chem degree MAY have less math requirements. calculus/multivar/linear alge/diff eq are must have for the chem e. chem degree will need up to multivar and MAY require you to match… even so, the chem engr degree will make MUCH better use of that math. after physical chem (typ junior year) you may never need to do anything beyond basic algebra again!
you will have far less classes to take as a chem major vs. a chem engr for the major requirements. what you choose to do with those classes is up to you. maybe you take a history minor/double major. maybe you use it to specialize (biochemist? lots of bio classes…) or you can do what im doing and take more physics classes (e&m, analytical and instrumentation) or even take some of those chemical engr classes you wanted!
the school of arts/science and engr may have different policies at various areas. i dont know anything about cornell, but its something to think about.</p>
<p>also, where did you get that job opps were bad for chem majors? if you pick a good physics background, you should be able to do a lot of the engr jobs. even then, most r&d jobs are good for chem majors…</p>
<p>Chem will have far less math than Chem E. I would suggest enrolling in the Chem E program. Fulfilling the overlapping courses with the Chem major and taking some of your intro engineering and intro chem e classes to see whether or not you like it. You can easily switch from Chem E to Chem, but its far harder to start Chem E after being a Chemistry major.</p>
<p>^ Well, that depends. At my institution the math requirements are the same, at least nominally. Also, the coursework is significantly different at the higher levels, so it would be well not to assume ChemE is a superset of Chem. It would also be well to think about whether liking Chemistry is a necessary or sufficient precondition to enjoying a major in ChemE… there has been some debate about that on these very forums of late.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the responses! Most likely I’ll be continuing my education for graduate school. I understand that ChemE and Chem are very different; would majoring in Chem and minoring in ChemE in undergrad and then continuing in graduate school be a viable option? Would undergrad offer things that I wont be able to have in graduate?</p>
<p>Really? They have the same math requirements. That’s weird. They don’t need that much Calculus. I never said Chem E was a superset of Chem. They are different in many ways and that difference is seen in the upper level courses which really define the majors. All I said is that in my opinion, he should start with Chem E and if he does not like it, he can switch to Chemistry and not lose out on anything since many of the classes in the beginning of both sequences are the same.</p>
<p>@ Vorharhar:</p>
<p>Could you minor in Chem E with a Chem major? I’ve never heard of that being possible. Regardless of what you do, almost any science/technical major will allow you to go to grad school for Chem E. But unless you actually get a undergrad in Chem E, you will have to take a few fundamental Chem E courses when you join Grad school before you can begin taking your Master’s level Chem E courses. That’s alright though. It happens very often.</p>
<p>By the way, I attend the Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering, a new Engineering school in MA. Because we are so new, we do not already have a Chemical Engineering Program here. I am creating a Chemical Engineering program here and I have read a lot about what courses constitute a Chemical Engineering Degree. So if you have any more questions, especially about what some of the courses you would be taking are, feel free to ask!</p>
<p>^I actually had this argument with AuburnMathTeacher in another thread in science majors forum, and thinking chemistry’s math requirement is greater than or equal to that of chemical engineering is just ridiculous, considering differential equations and partial differential equations are basis of many engineering courses, whereas most chemistry major programs require only up to multivariable calculus. You don’t even need that if you get into organic chemistry or biochemistry later! It’s good to know that Auburn University works that way, but most people won’t even care about that if they don’t go to schools like it…</p>
<p>All I’m saying is that you should check the requirements at YOUR university… because at some places some of the arguments being made don’t apply.</p>
<p>all chem majors need to take physical chem (and maybe a lab) and analytical chem. often times, the high level spectroscopy will call on quantum mechanics (more atomic orbital theory, not particle) and symmetry arguments (a lot of group theory). linear (really more matrix) algebra is super important where. some schools will require the chem majors to have, all schools wont. either way, if you want to do this heavy physical chem route, you will need the math.</p>
<p>additionally, a lot of the various spectroscopy methods and kinetic reaction equations can be properly modeled with Diff eqs. </p>
<p>however, as i noted earlier, you may not have to do that much of this high level physical chem/math. you could just be an organic/bio chemist and just “survive” those classes and do something else. in chemical engr, you wouldnt be allowed to just “survive” those math heavy classes.</p>
<p>outside of a sophomore sequence on mass/energy balance and maybe an intro thermo class (which you will take as a junior in pchem anyway), the first two years are going to be almost exactly the same.</p>
<p>At an open house I attended part of the program included each Dept. Chair giving a brief introduction about their own program. The ChemE Chair made the statement: “Chemical Engineering is: 50% math, 50% physics and 50% chemistry. Though, not in any particular order.”</p>
<p>A lot of people thought that the chemists would have a better career than chemical engineers, or chemical engineers better, that’s wrong, in fact they are a huge circle, let me explain that…
The chemists treat with small quantities at labs, and the chemical engineers with large at the factories, the chemists do their researches to improve chemistry, chemical engineers take the results to develop their products.
The real job of the chemical engineers is solving problems at the factories, and these problems usually chemical problems, and sometimes new problem, so they need the chemists results ,that was the difference between the job title, there are some differences such as safety and mechanical skills which are required for chemical engineers more than chemists, but there working in one circle and the cannot be separated, sometimes chemists must work at the factory with the chemical engineers such as the high petrochemical fields, and chemical engineers may work at labs such as the drugs manufacturing, don’t confuse yourself by who works where, just focus on the real job.
About the money, the chemical engineers make more money than chemists in the whole world, but the chemistry easier than chemical engineering in the whole world</p>
<p>Back when there still dinosaurs foot prints on the campus I got BS in Chemistry and after working for 3 years when back to school for a BS Chemical Engineer. The opportunities, job openings and salary for BS Chemical Engineering are much better than a BS Chemistry.</p>
<ol>
<li> For a BS Chemistry you will need to memorize more things. </li>
<li> For a BS Chemical Engineering you will need better math skills.</li>
<li> A chemist will ask how many kilograms.</li>
<li> A chemical engineer will ask how many kilograms per hour.</li>
<li> All engineering are asked about cost. How much will it cost to build, operate and how much will we save.</li>
</ol>