Chicago vs. Cornell

<p>The University of Chicago is consistently ranked higher than Cornell, however, an ivy..is an ivy</p>

<p>Im looking to get recruited by an investment banking firm, and ideally pursue a jd + mba afterwards.</p>

<p>Right now, im not sure what school would provide the better opportunity</p>

<p>-If i go to Chicago i would pursue an Econ + Poli Sci major, but if im going to Cornell i might be swayed to do AEM because i live within NY (cheaper costs)</p>

<ul>
<li>AEM - Applied Economics and Management - Cornell's accredited undergrad business program (#10 according to newsweek) - half the tuition for NY residents (18k vs 30k)</li>
</ul>

<p>even though money isnt a dire issue, it is still something that needs to be weighed. im just looking for additional perspectives on my situation - UChicago Econ or Cornell AEM?</p>

<p>See my response on the Cornell forum.</p>

<p>But if studying a subject exclusively and getting a job that relates to that subject appeals to you (as would be the case with an AEM degree), I don't think you'd like Chicago's core curriculum, where every student, regardless of major, reads some Homer, Kant, Marx, etc.</p>

<p>O.K., Charlie, I will take the bait :-)</p>

<p>What do you mean by "however, an ivy..is an ivy"?</p>

<p>i hope i didnt offend anyone by saying "an ivy.. is an ivy", it was not my intention to stir any anger </p>

<p>yes the eight ivy schools may be regarded as elite schools, but they were originally associated together as football conference... i know that, but to this day an ivy league school carries a certain degree of prestige, whether it is in or out of the academic circle...</p>

<p>not to say that a school like chicago, mit, georgetown, or stanford is "weaker" because they dont have the ivy title... its just that some of the negatives about a school can be overlooked because of the prestige or strong alumni network associated with it</p>

<p>its not that i advocate looking at a school because of its name or superficial advantages, its just a reality that certain schools can are viewed in high regard even when its not completely deserved, and apparently being apart of the "ivy league" is a plus, if we made no distinction between an ivy and a non-ivy why are the categorized seperately, like on cc?</p>

<p>There are two types of prestige.</p>

<p>Want prestige among academic-minded people? PA Ranking by USNWR gives a good idea of it (I believe that Chicago consistently ranks higher than Cornell in this). Want prestige among non-academic-minded people? Go Ivy or MIT.</p>

<p>If you're looking for job opportunities or grad school admission, the former is more important than the latter. I therefore don't know why you'd pick Cornell over Chicago because of its prestige as an Ivy, unless you're just an attention whore.</p>

<p>(For the record, I don't advocate using prestige when picking a college.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
its not that i advocate looking at a school because of its name or superficial advantages, its just a reality that certain schools can are viewed in high regard even when its not completely deserved

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Isn't that a contradiction? If I get what you're saying, you're saying:</p>

<p>1) Looking at school because of its name is superficial and you do not advocate it
2) However, the reality is that some schools are thougt of in higher regard compared to other universities, and thus you need to take this into account when you apply to college</p>

<p>In defense of Charlie-- if you live on the east coast it's tough as a really good HS student to avoid ivy league pressure. People look at you like you've got two heads when you have ivy stats and look elsewhere. It takes time to decide where your heart and brain lie with respect to schools and personal priorities.
The academic treasures of the U of C life of the mind are not for all ( as we may wish) but each student has to figure it out.
He was posting for advice........</p>

<p>Look, both Cornell and Chicago are fabulous, world-class universities, with great faculties, student bodies, alumni networks, etc. People on CC obsess about relatively small differences -- I do, too -- but if you take a step back they don't matter much. If you are lucky enough to be choosing between Chicago and Cornell, you would probably do fine flipping a coin.</p>

<p>That said, there are some differences that matter, and you have to decide what you think about them:</p>

<p>-- a $60,000 tuition difference for four years is a meaningful difference. On an "investment" basis, it would be hard to make a case for spending that much more for Chicago. You have to be willing to spend the extra money for pretty intangible benefits.
-- Cornell has an undergraduate business program. Not only does Chicago not have one, the entire design of the university is hostile to the very notion of one. One of the informal mottos is "That's fine in practice, but how does it work in theory?" If you are really interested in learning about business, everything you do at Chicago will be at a high, high level of abstraction from your main interest. That's not necessarily a bad thing: for some people, it would be a great thing, for others, sheer oppression.
-- On a related topic, Chicago makes you (and everyone else) take a bunch of Core classes -- about a third of your total classes (although that counts some stuff you might take anyway). The main Core classes relate to business only in the sense that both business and philosophy have something to do with the relationship of humanity to the universe, and ontological problems of knowing sometimes pop up in a business setting (and promptly go away, ignored and unacknowledged). Either you hunger for that kind of perspective -- and for sharing it with other students whose interests are very different from yours -- or you don't. At Cornell, however, you would be part of a significant number of students who share your interest in business and who would be taking an entire curriculum a lot like yours. Both schools will try to teach you critical thinking, but in very different ways.
-- Don't forget the differences between Ithaca and Hyde Park. They are both great places, but most people would strongly prefer one to the other. Ithaca is a great college town on a lake about 3-1/2 hours by car from anywhere else you might want to be. Hyde Park is a lovely, not-very-happening neighborhood on a lake in a huge, exciting city. The world revolves around students in Ithaca, not in Chicago. Ithaca is all hills and gorges and breathtaking views; Chicago is flat as a griddle, with a bunch of sensational skyscrapers in the middle. They are both cold during the winter -- Cornell has great winter sports, including one of the world's great sledding hills and nearby skiing; Chicago has walking to class upwind.
-- Cornell itself is a much bigger, much more diverse place (economically, culturally, racially, interests-of-studentsly). It's more than twice the size of Chicago. It's also a lot less Midwestern than Chicago. The city of Chicago is a lot more diverse than Ithaca or Cornell, in every way imaginable. If you are from New York City, Midwestern can be exotic and refreshing (or not).</p>

<p>None of the above has anything to do with "quality of education" or with your chances for success in your life plan. (Your life plan is subject to change over the next few years anyway.) People succeed in business and in philosophy coming out of both schools. There are plenty of people in the business world who value what either school provides. It really is a question of what is going to work best for you, not what their ranks are. The dumbest thing you could possibly do is to go someplace and hate it -- that's about the only sure route to failure there is.</p>

<p>You're right. Cornell is...an Ivy, and Chicago...isn't. Do you want Ivy or Chicago. You pick!</p>

<p>Charlie, thank you for your response to my question. I hope I didn't sound rude - that was not my intention.</p>

<p>There has been a lot of discussion of Chicago vs those schools in the ivy league. Others have articulated the value of a Chicago education much better than I could. So, I won't go down that path.
I do want to say that prestige is a funny thing. It really is in the eyes of the beholder. For example, in my church out here in the mid west, a person with a degree from Yale Divinity School would have no particular cachet, whereas someone from Moody Bible Institute would.</p>

<p>Um, so, why do you want to go to Chicago?</p>

<p>To answer the question, Why do i want to go to Chicago?</p>

<p>Ideally im looking for a broad education, an experience rather than specific training, particularly in the fields of economics and political science, and additionally mathematics ( i have already recieved 22 math credits throught the university of buffalo during my high school years) </p>

<p>Chicago is the school for those needs, but my dilema is the in state fee to cornell, a school like cornell is a steal for 30k a year, and even though it is applied economics, id be willing to supplement that with courses in government + econ theories within the arts and sciences college...</p>

<p>i appreciate the respones, truly thank you (JHS, glasses, micromom, and unalove) - insightful perspectives often shed much needed light on crucial personal matters, such as this</p>

<p>and let me clarify my view on assesing prestige when choosing a school:</p>

<p>i do believe that prestige isnt something that i should use as a sole deciding factor, but in a world where competition can crush ones ambitions merely because of the school attended.. then i guess i have to give in... its tough to explain, my theories and beliefs of finding your soul school, dont match the realities of recruitment and getting a job</p>

<p>its true that with hard work and dedication you can pursue your ambitions, a school doesnt make one succesful, the person's ethic does, you can make a name for yourself anywhere, but from what i gather making a name for yourself at an institution that also carries a strong name (cornell or chicago) is a plus</p>

<p>First of all, this "ivy job network" is something of a myth. My mom, dad, and brother are all ivy grads (my brother and mom were spectacular students, my dad less so), and all of them struggled in getting a job.</p>

<p>Charlie, your last post is a lot more thoughtful than the first. But you should be assured that competition will NOT crush your ambitions based on the school you attend, no matter what it is. People have careers, not their diplomas. At most, your school may make it easier to get a specific first job, but where you take it from there is up to you, And the difference between Chicago and Cornell will be negligible in any event.</p>

<p>I would also advise you not to get so excited about "being recruited by an investment bank" if you ultimately want to get a JD/MBA. Working for an investment bank right out of college is well-paid and prestigious, but you are cannon fodder, and it may or may not be a good learning experience. You should be thinking of the long run, not focusing on a really temporary intermediate stage.</p>

<p>If it helps, I have a friend who was a physics major at Chicago, then got his PhD in math from Cornell. He now works for an investment firm and he's happy as a clam about it -- the work is interesting enough that he might do it for free, but he doesn't have to. He loved both schools, Cornell more than Chicago, but he came from a small town and really likes things like hiking and rockclimbing that were much easier to do at Cornell.</p>

<p>Finally, I had no idea you were from Buffalo! In some ways, the city of Chicago would be a lot less exotic to someone from Buffalo than to someone from NYC, and Cornell maybe vice versa.</p>

<p>even though each school offers something different and a unique approach at learning, i can benefit from both as long as i take full advantage of what im learing, by diversifying my education, and by leaving my own mark. with that being said, by looking at this as an investment, im gonna apply early action to chicago and early decision to cornell (mainly for the proximity to home, and most importantly because of the $60,000 break)... as long as im accepted into one of them ill be making a good decision -- and if not ill throw up some regular decision apps to similiar schools...</p>

<p>thanks for the advice and insight, so now all i should be worrying about is getting in</p>

<p>You would be crazy to spend 60K more to go to Chicago. If you choose your courses right there will be almost no difference academically, although Ithaca is a downer.</p>

<p>^^ That's completely backwards. For there to be a $60,000 difference, the OP has to go to one of the state-supported schools at Cornell, specifically the Ag School (I believe), where the business program is housed, and take a specific, practical, business-oriented curriculum. Maybe if he chose his courses right there would be almost no difference academically vs. Wharton or Ross undergrad, but there is certain to be a vast difference in style and content between that and Chicago. You couldn't mimic Chicago at Cornell, or Cornell at Chicago, no matter how hard you tried. Where there won't be any difference is in reputation and job prospects, which is what the original question was about.</p>

<p>Also, Ithaca is a downer for some, an upper for others. The friend I described above never felt comfortable in Chicago, and thought Ithaca was a perfect place to live. A colleague of mine who grew up in Ithaca spends every weekend at a house she owns near there, and plans to retire there soon.</p>