Chicago's 2007-2008 Essays: a banner year?

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<p>It seems to me that one of the worst developments in college admissions is the insane focus on prestige and extreme level of competition, to the extent that top ranked universities accept less than one out of ten applicants, and applicants and their advisors are at a loss to assess likelihood of admissions. Part of the madness comes from colleges that make little effort to deter candidates whom realistically have almost no chance of admission or are a poor fit for their college - and blanket marketing that suggests to everyone with a halfway decent SAT score that they ought to apply. Harvard can afford to do this even though it probably dramatically increases the number of patently unqualified students who apply, because they have no qualms about sending rejection letters to 90% of their applicants and they are pretty sure that most of those who get in will come. </p>

<p>So Chicago doesn't play the game-- and rather than celebrate them for engaging in strategic marketing and deliberately making their application process difficult enough to deter those for whom Chicago is a top choice.... you want Chicago to give up it's distinctiveness and join the crowd of colleges which on paper are virtually indistinguishable from one another.</p>

<p>Chicago knows its market. It knows that it's "Life of the Mind" brochures are going to appeal to those whose primary criteria in choosing a college is the perception of academic rigour or intellectual discourse; no one ever chose U. of Chicago because they liked its football team or were attracted to the stimulating social life. Yes - Chicago has athletics and club activities, but they de-emphasize them. They want brainy kids or kids that perceive themselves as brainy. </p>

<p>Which is why Chicago could have a 40% or greater admit rate and still be perceived as one of the most academically rigorous colleges in the country. </p>

<p>Colleges that focus on their niche are doing their applicants and themselves a big favor: they have clearly designed their mission, and they don't waste their own time weeding through applications from kids who are not good fits or have little desire to attend, and they don't waste the time of applicants by enticing poor-fit kids to submit application fee dollars. </p>

<p>Any kid who wants Chicago badly enough to deserve admissions is going to be willing to write the essay, even if they are put off by the 4 specified prompts and choose options #5. And if the perceived pretentiousness is enough to deter some prospective students... then I think that's great. It guarantees that the ones who do care enough to put in extra effort to apply will get a fair evaluation.</p>

<p>Many qualified kids get turned away from Chicago, but Chicago remains a "match" for kids who have the academic qualifications and abilities, rather than a reach -- and I think that's a good thing. </p>

<p>Everyone has always said that Chicago has a self-selecting applicant pool. The essay questions are one way that Chicago encourages the students to make the self-selection.</p>

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<p>I have never said in this thread that thinking people should not make "judgments." Your statement, celloguy, was a nonsequitor to my previous post. Judgments are not always generalities -- which is what I was warning against. Generalities such as well, you know, everybody kind of knows -- it's just common knowledge, etc.,that Ivy students are "careerist" and "practical" (not theoretical)-- is just plain insupportable as a generality. I was showing, by contrast, that individual motivations, self-perceptions, & perceptions by others vary -- as regards any particular student applying or attending any particular college. And that was the reason for my examples: they are in fact the opposite of stereotypes: it was particular information about particular students, not post-facto presumptions based on the colleges applied to -- which is what I object to on this thread, and in general in many of the "Us vs. Them" discussions about U of Chicago. The records & known orientations of the students in question oppose both the stereotype of the "nerdy" Chicagoan and the stereotype of the presumably shallow prestige-seeking "careerist" Ivy-Leaguer. Neither "box" is helpful, nor, I maintain, do labels promote the kind of efficient marketing calmom seems to support.</p>

<p>No, I don't want any college to "give up its distinctiveness." Well-expressed identity and image, on the part of an institution, can aid the applicant in making decisions. But the choice of words, the comparisons made, & the degree of hyperbole can make a difference between grabbing those students with indeed the right attributes for that institution -- and watching them slip away. I again refer to colleges & U's beyond Chicago; ones that set a particular "political" message with my D were similarly ones from which my apolitical D turned away. That was perfect if their intent was to attract only those high-academic students who were also politically active. But in the cases of a couple of them, I'm not convinced that that was their intent. Tone speaks volumes, as also what is <em>not</em> said.</p>

<p>Although I do not support the thinking that applies labels to a "type" of student applying to an Ivy vs. a Chicago "type," I'll indulge that thinking for a moment. Sorry, but I don't view Chicago as necessarily an appropiate competitor to the Ivies as a whole. And that is absolutely not a criticism of any Chicago applicant, student, parent! It's just that I see Chicago as a research university -- mainly. It seems to me that the same student who might want to work his or her heart out at Berkeley (for example), but with more intimacy & more flexibility (due to size & Private status at Chicago) would/could be very attracted to Chicago, but not for reasons of appeal to ego ("special," "unique," "different"). Some of you seem to believe that Chicago has in fact attracted such students & continues to do so. Sure, it's attracted many, but I think it's missed a lot, too. Unfortunately, of the hundreds of students I've known who are attracted to Berkeley, almost no one is (about) equally attracted to Chicago. People who just really want to dig their hands into research will not be persuaded by a "more elite than thou" tag line -- or any message that is primarily comparative rather than declarative. It seems to me that Chicago has many of the advantages of a research university as well as the flavor of an LAC. And the "real" intellectuals who in fact do exist at Ivies often (not invariably, but often) are also attracted to research universities & LAC's for the intellectualism & for the intimacy that each offers. My D, her peer students at h.s., & current college students she hangs out with, all have shown a strong interest in research universities & LAC's - previously in their college lists, but only in 2 or 3 Ivies of particular academic "specialty" interest to them.</p>

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<p>I am surprised that some posters think that the only way Chicago can promote its own image is by continue to use what some of us--and many would-be applicants--think are pretentious writing prompts. Surely it is possible to produce writing prompts that can attract the right kind of students without the off-putting verbiage?
The fact that, every year, Chicago comes up with different writing prompts means that there are alternatives to every single one that is used in any given year. Chicago is to be commended for putting some thought into the selection of its writing prompts rather than recylcing the same bland ones as in the Common App. Some of us wished that this thoughtfulness was carried a bit further.
On another front, I would suspect that many Chicago applicants also apply to HYP--all of which use the Common App. And if these applicants are admitted to H, Y, or P, chances are they will go there. So the idea that Chicago's app is designed to appeal to certain kinds of students is not really apt. But, as some of us have argued, some students choose to apply to Chicago despite the writing prompts, not because of them.</p>

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<p>If you want to apply to Chicago, then you have to play by Chicago's rules. When my daughter chose to write a decidedly different and unpretentious essay, using option 5 to come up with something poking fun at Chicago and its reputation rather than follow their suggestions, I didn't know what to expect -- I thought, "they will either love this essay or hate it"... and I also thought, "if Chicago doesn't like the essay, then my d. probably wouldn't want to attend anyway."... I'm sure that Chicago ad coms think the same thing in reverse: that they probably don't want the kind of students who are upset by their essays.</p>

<p>Here are some pages with some other essay prompts you might find interesting:
<a href="http://samcurt.livejournal.com/145285.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://samcurt.livejournal.com/145285.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>These are the essay prompts that students in China must complete as part of their national examination which determines their eligibility to apply to any university. You will see that most of the prompts are no less "pretentious" and no easier to fathom than Chicago's. Students in China are asked to write on such topics as "In the fifth version of The Dictionary of Modern Chinese, there is a new word yuanjing, or "vision." It is explained as "the future to be desired." Hence, write an essay on this word... -- or to write on the topic Godot has come - and those are just the short topics -- the long ones set out fables or poems or lay a context every bit as convoluted as the most esoteric of the Chicago prompts. But for the Chinese students, there is is no option 5.</p>

<p>Chicago wants to see how students write, and they want to see how students think. The typical common app essay questions give room for students to write well and tell the college something about themselves, but without a complex topic to wrestle with, few essays will give that glimpse into the workings of the student's mind. Chicago simply wants to nudge its applicants in a different direction and then see what happens. </p>

<p>I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would be upset about Chicago's essay prompts. If a kid doesn't like it, they shouldn't apply to Chicago. (Or do what my daughter did and write about something else.) But don't expect Chicago to try to make changes to please people who would prefer something less quirky... it's not going to happen. The Chicago ad coms know what they are doing... year after year they get exactly the class that they want.</p>

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<p>calmom:</p>

<p>I did not find the Chinese prompts pretentious. The expository stuff was long, to be sure, but it was not self-consciously showing off the way some of the Chicago prompts do; and the prompts are not presented as being inspired by admitted students' essays--which suggest the particular kind of students Chicago is looking for. The particular one about vision is perfectly fine to me (and the dictionary definition useful--I would not want the applicants to think they all have to write about optometry).
We obviously have different ideas about good and not so good writing prompts. I could be quite happy if Chicago used some of the Chinese writing prompts--including the ones inspired by the Beatles song though not credited as such.</p>

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<p>calmom:</p>

<p>Why should you think that those of us who criticize Chicago's prompts are "upset" as you put it? My kids have either graduated or are in college. We are done with the college process. It is of no earthly significance to me and mine what Chicago does with its applications. But should only people who have a personal stake comment on aspects of a college admission process? And are Chicago prompts so perfect that no one can imagine possibilities for improving them? Who here is suggesting that the prompts stop being quirky or different? What some of us are suggesting is that some of the prompts stop being pretentious. But, hey, no skin of my nose or of my kids' noses.</p>

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<p>I don't see how it is the business of anyone outside of Chicago to complain about or criticize their application process. It works for them. They read thousands of essays every year and they obviously are happy with the results and finding it gives them the info they want and need. If Chicago is like every other university, they probably have also invested thousands of dollars in working with marketing consultants and enrollment managers to hone down their p.r. and everything from their post cards to their applicaition to the color of the folder in their admission packet to maximize appeal to their target audience.</p>

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<p>Calmom, I couldn't agree more with you views of Chicago's application process. S LOVED writing his essay for U of C, the prompt he chose inspired his very funny response that showed both his quirkyness, his imagination and his writing skills. That's what Chicago wants- to find kids who think differently! Thank goodness all colleges don't all want the same kind of students. Marmite, as the old commercial once said " where's the beef"?</p>

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<p>lol i love how you called marite "Marmite"</p>

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<p>Whether marmite or marite, I'm not going to respond further. As per Calmom, I have no business commenting.</p>

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<p>lol well if it means anything to anyone on this thread: I am a student thinking of applying to UChi next year...and while I have posted before and still maintain that their essays are pretentious as HELL, they seem like they would actually be pretty fun and much easier than run-of-the-mill essays. At first glance I decided I hated them, but I actually now think that I'll do a good job with them, because I'm going to be rewarded for using my imagination and letting my fun side come out.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't see how it is the business of anyone outside of Chicago to complain about or criticize their application process. It works for them. They read thousands of essays every year and they obviously are happy with the results and finding it gives them the info they want and need. If Chicago is like every other university, they probably have also invested thousands of dollars in working with marketing consultants and enrollment managers to hone down their p.r. and everything from their post cards to their applicaition to the color of the folder in their admission packet to maximize appeal to their target audience.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Calmom, I'm not sure that you have to live in Chicago -or I assume be affiliated with the school- to have an opinion, especially a critical one. Doesn't it help to know the reactions of people who live outside the ivory tower? </p>

<p>As far as opinions, doesn't everyone have one about Harvard? It sure seems that way on College Confidential. For what it is worth, I believe that Chicago DOES expect reactions to its selection of prompts. The beauty of being an iconoclast is that it DOES attarct attention. In this vein, Chicago borrows a page from Reed's playbook. Negative publicity is still better than no publicity seems to be the motto. </p>

<p>As far as "working for them" I'd put up a couple of Jeffersons that they would give their left pinkie to enjoy a doubke digit growth in application. Have you read many press releases that extol the values of a smaller application? I'd like to read any officers declaring, "Penn and Cornell have enjoyed tremendous growth in application. Lord, have mercy on them!" </p>

<p>Please do not tell me that the high priced consultants do not compare Chicago to the Harvard and Columbia of this world, as opposed to strive to maintain admission numbers that satisfy non-coed schools? </p>

<p>Would Chicago NOT enjoy having the same pool of 20,000+ applicants who considers Cambridge a preferred destination? Wishful thinking?</p>

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<p>jimbob1225,
Have fun with your essays. My son had a lot of fun with the teleclone essay a couple of years ago - definitely his best work.</p>

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<p>"Would Chicago NOT enjoy having the same pool of 20,000+ applicants who considers Cambridge a preferred destination? Wishful thinking?" </p>

<p>I have asked admissions folks about this, their answer was pretty simple. "We would love to have 20,000 equally qualified applicants who would love to be at Chicago, we do not want more applicants just to appear more selective."</p>

<p>From a May 19, article in the Chicago Maroon. It shows they are always examining their practices and questioning themselves, so I don't think they mind too much if others do as well:</p>

<p>"The admissions office underwent “major internal changes” this year, including a new computer system and a new method of digitally imaging applications. While the admissions office currently has no plans to switch to the Common Application, “it’s always something we consider,” O’Neill said [Ted O'Neill is Dean of Admissions].</p>

<p>“We know we lose applicants because of [the Uncommon Application], and we’re very concerned about disproportionately losing applicants who are [low income or minorities].”</p>

<p>O’Neill said that the admissions office tried to compensate by making the Uncommon Application more “user-friendly” and the questions “more inviting.” Besides the strings question, essay topics included a personal reflection on a Langston Hughes poem."</p>

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<p>"As far as opinions, doesn't everyone have one about Harvard?"</p>

<p>Yes, xiggi, and at this point I have one about CMC as well. The longer I have been on CC, however, the more I have learned that trashing colleges does little good. I am sorry for those times I have done so in the past.</p>

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<p>The prompts are not pretentious. They are merely descriptive and designed to get one's creative juices flowing.</p>

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<p>""As far as opinions, doesn't everyone have one about Harvard?"</p>

<p>Yes, xiggi, and at this point I have one about CMC as well. The longer I have been on CC, however, the more I have learned that trashing colleges does little good. I am sorry for those times I have done so in the past."</p>

<p>OhioMom, I am perplexed by your comment. Absolutely perplexed.</p>

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<p>Xiggi, I don't have a problem with your opinion. I have a problem with someone who expresses a disproportionate degree of anger, with post after post taking issue with any opposing point of view. It's one thing to be mildly annoyed at the application and toss it away because you don't like the tone of the questions. It's quite another to carry on a strident debate, refusing to acknowledge any validity to attempts to explain what it is that Chicago wants with its applications. </p>

<p>I think that above all, Chicago wants students who are open minded, who can see an issue from many angles and have the capacity to play devil's advocate and explore a concept from many points of view. A little bit of a sense of humor or playfulness doesn't hurt either. They also really, really want students to submit something DIFFERENT. So they write a bunch of prompts that they think are thought-provoking. I guess some people don't like having their thoughts provoked. If you (or anyone else) is that kind of person, then Chicago is not the place for you. That's the whole point.</p>

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<p>Uchicagos essays do have unusual prompts- that would take some thinking about. Maybe why Ds friends who chose UChicago, did so early admit, so they wouldn't have to do a series of essays for another school.
I dont know if Uchicago would appeal to me, D didn't really like the campus when she stayed there for a CityYear function, but I love the essay prompts.
How refreshing!
It has to make it more interesting for the readers as well, although not everyone is a great writer- I think college should help with that.</p>

<p>Im assuming they require several essays? Since students often have info that they cant fit in any other place, essays are the no brainer place to do it.</p>

<p>I don't think they are "pretentious", but they would signal to the applicant, that this is going to be a place where they are challenged, but also where they can find their own way. I think the topics in the prompts, are varied enough that at least one, would really get your juices flowing, and I would hope that would be the purpose. To get a better idea of the potential of a student rather than an essay that just asks "tell me about yourself"</p>

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<p>Calmom, here we go again! </p>

<p>Since you started with "Xiggi, I don't have a problem with your opinion." and ended with "If you (or anyone else) is that kind of person, then Chicago is not the place for you. That's the whole point." I'll assume that the entire post is directed at me. </p>

<p>This is not the first time that I have to invite to READ what I wrote instead of commenting on what you BELIEVE I wrote, because "carry[ing] on a strident debate, refusing to acknowledge any validity to attempts to explain what it is that Chicago wants with its applications." is most definitely not what I have done in this thread. Go back and count the number of my "interventions" as well as the contents and the timing of my posts in this thread. For the record, I offered MY opinion on the essays of THIS YEAR and then moved on to discuss how the perception of people who think like me -or my sister- might impact the overal application pool of Chicago. Regarding Chicago, I also invite you to find a single post of mine that would be remotely negative about the school, except for my comments in this thread that are targeting Thedodore o'Neill's office. </p>

<p>And regarding Chicago want[ing] people who are open minded, who can see an issue from many angles and have the capacity to play devil's advocate and explore a concept from many points of view, I believe that it is something you might consider worthy of trying.</p>

<p>PS If I miscontrued the essence of your post, please accept my apologies!</p>