China and Taiwan

<p>u know before china got a permanent seat in the security council in UN, Taiwan had been there... its all power struggle, and china for being a big populous country has a power that will make the west hesistant of taking steps toward Taiwain cuz they got teh biggest market in the world... and certainly the west doesnt wanna lose that market...
idk, thats my perspective why the u.s. and the rest of the world, although majority of them think Taiwan should be independent, dont say so explicitly....</p>

<p>china will try to take over taiwain and also legitimize their occupation of tibet... quite scary...</p>

<p>no no no...
In ancient China, the government "assumed" that Taiwan was their's, but they didn't really do anything benefited it and didn't care about it. They gave Taiwan to Japan since they didn't see the value of it. It was just a peice of poor island for Chinese government. However, Japanese went to Taiwan and built modern constructions there such as rail roads and factories. After WWII Japane gave Taiwan back to ROC and then the civil war started. Most Taiwanese were in Taiwan before ROC moved to Taiwan, and the costums of Taiwan is very very different from China. Today, most Taiwanese even refuse to buy products that are made in China because it will help China grow. There's a huge huge gape between Taiwan and China and I doubt any Taiwanese will ever say that they are Chinese or things like that. Taiwanese are just looking for freedoms and a democracy and why do others or even China have rights to say Taiwan should be taken by China or anything? Wasn't America belonged to England and became indepandent because Americans were looking for their own freedom? So why can't Taiwanese look for their freedom too and refuse to becom communists since everyone here agrees that communism just doesn't work??</p>

<p>America did belong to England just as Taiwan does currently belong to China. But America became independent because they fought a war with England and won. Objectively, Taiwan would not dare to declare independence currently because of the power that China has. Furthermore, China's "communism" is no longer what it used to be. Personally, I believe that China has become very capitalistic so the argument that communism-just-doesn't-work does not apply.</p>

<p>Kyt: well said about China/Taiwan.</p>

<p>I just have a moderate disagreement with your statement that arguments that communism-just-doesn't-work does not apply.</p>

<p>I honestly feel that communism does not work, which is exactly why China has become capitalistic.</p>

<p>Another thing, but this is more general and doesn't apply to Kyt's argument. No country ever achieved communism. Communist systems have no government. Instead, the workers decide everything.</p>

<p>China hasn't become very capitalistic. They still beilive that only communism will save China. BTW, I think the worst thing about the so-called communism is that it sounds like the country should be controlled by most poeple, but the truth is that they don't even have rights to vote or choose their religions. </p>

<p>I do agree that American won the war with England and it was one of the reasons why US became independent, but I think the most significant thing, and the thing that most history books'd like to mention, was the vary idea that Americans were looking for freedom. The winning of the war didn't mean that American was right nor English was wrong. </p>

<p>Does everyone on this board beleive in freedom and respect for individuals? I am always bemused about why poeple agree that there should be freedom and respect for individuals in a country like America but never think this way when they are talking about the international society. Do you agree that an individual in the soceity has right to decide what name he/she wants to use and how he/she wants to live? And then why don't you agree that Taiwanese also have rights to use the name they recognise and live the way they want. Why shouldn't Taiwanese have their freedom and other's repects of their decisions?</p>

<p>A. I'm not going to downplay what is official. Officially, The People's Republic of China has a Communist government.</p>

<p>B. But, have you guys been to the mainland lately? There are street vendors and shops selling items WITH PRICES SET BY THEM. Huh...that doesn't sound too communist to me. Maybe, it's because, <em>gasp</em>, China isn't really communist anymore?!?!?!?!?!?!?!</p>

<p>C. I think The United States of America has no right to intervene. This is a private issue between The PRoC and The RoC. Even then, I doubt we would have enough forces to go in.</p>

<p>and the fact is majority of taiwainese dont want china in taiwain...</p>

<p>Well, what matters in the end is that Taiwan will not be able to resist China if indeed they decide to invade. It does not matter that Taiwan wants to be independent or not because Taiwan would never officially declare independence unless they wanted to draw China's wrath.</p>

<p>True, Taiwan will not be able to resist China if they do invade, but currently there is no reason for China to do so.</p>

<p>"C. I think The United States of America has no right to intervene. This is a private issue between The PRoC and The RoC. Even then, I doubt we would have enough forces to go in."</p>

<p>Well, didn't the States say that they were going to protect Taiwan if they were invaded or something? The States technically have no right to intervene, but hey, were not the ones making the decisions. >.></p>

<p>But the point is, that China has no right to take back Taiwan. They don't own the land or its government.</p>

<p>Being the way things stand and will remain that way for long long time. there is no way for China to nuke its best customer, the US ! It's bad for business.</p>

<p>To war with US over Taiwan is silly. A remote but possible scenario is China fighting US over oil. Even so it will not be fought with bombs but with financial instruments,take overs and foreigncy control.</p>

<p>"C. I think The United States of America has no right to intervene. This is a private issue between The PRoC and The RoC. Even then, I doubt we would have enough forces to go in."</p>

<p>I think US has the right since that Taiwan has a democracy system and China doesn't. Remenber how US helped European countries after WWII against USSR??</p>

<p>I don't think it's a private issue bacause it's one "country" againsts another!!</p>

<p>I agree with cawaiigirl till her last post.</p>

<p>I think that US really has no "right" to intervene. But obviously they can if they want. Nobody's gonna stop them.</p>

<p>BTW, are you from Taiwan or China cawaiigirl? You sound... like some one from Taiwan or something...</p>

<p>Cawaii, I'm assuming you are Taiwanese, because nobody else would write with such emotion.</p>

<p>However, remember one thing - you're still Chinese.</p>

<p>And...it is a private issue between the PRoC and the RoC.</p>

<p>Cawaii, I have a simple question: Are you saying that the U.S. should spread freedom and democracy internationally?</p>

<p>Another thing Cawaii, it's about your argument that the U.S. helped other countries against USSR after WWII.</p>

<p>The U.S. was panicking about communism at that point, and they were doing everything to get countries to resist communism. Did you know that they even put dictators in power over numerous countries as long as the dictator promised to never turn his country into communism?</p>

<p>lol; the USA WAS afraid of the OLD Communism...</p>

<p>Communism today is poor...(the people).<br>
The European countries are another thing, they enjoy killng each other.</p>

<p>I am half Taiwanese and half Japanese.
I view Chinese culture as my own culture but I don't think there's no difference between Chinese who live in China and me (except that I am not pure-blood however ...)
By the way....:P I always express my ideas with emotion for some reasons that I don't even know. That is my problem. May be I should talk to a doctor or something...</p>

<p>I didn’t mean that the ways America helped and supported other democracies after WWII were all right. What I wanted to say was the idea of supporting other democracies against the communism.</p>

<p>I said the US had the right because the US is supporting what they think is right, which is democracy. Don’t we have the right to support what we think is right? </p>

<p>USA is afraid of communism. The reason why the US is afraid is that the communism always leads to a tragic end after wasting a lot of recourses.</p>

<p>"studiousmexican=oxymoron" = obvious racist</p>

<p>
[quote]

I said the US had the right because the US is supporting what they think is right, which is democracy. Don’t we have the right to support what we think is right?</p>

<p>USA is afraid of communism. The reason why the US is afraid is that the communism always leads to a tragic end after wasting a lot of recourses.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The USA does not have the right to interfere with the business of sovereign nations. </p>

<p>Using your logic, the terrorists in Iraq have the right to blow up American soldiers because they think its right. Maybe Hitler had the right to kill 6 million Jews too?</p>

<p>First let me start of by saying fear does NOT justify anything.</p>

<p>Communism in itself is NOT bad. There is nothing wrong with the idea of everyone sharing everything. However, it obviously goes against human nature. In such an environment, there is no motivation, and eventually things do fall apart. However, what effect does that have on the US? Its not like China is declaring Comintern.</p>