<p>In China, high school students can go straight into medical school after passing the national entrance examination. They complete it in four years, ending up with an "MD." Still, many in the United States consider this degree as bachelors instead of professional.</p>
<p>So, why do students in the United States have to go through four years undergrad first? Of course, bachelors in chemistry or biology really help, but some have gone on to med school after studying music or math, which are not related to medicine directly.</p>
<p>PS: I don't mean to insult one system or the other. I'm simply curious about the differences in medical education in different countries.</p>
<p>It's only in North America that medicine is a postgraduate discipline. The rest of the world has it as an undergraduate degree. In Britain, graduates get a double Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery. In China, the degree translates more directly to "Bachelor of Medicine". But in these cases, "Dr" is still used by convention as an honorary title.</p>
<p>This is a basically a function of the American educational system. The British system is more specialized - you do into undergraduate studying nothing but your chosen field of study. I really don't see the point of the American system except to weed out the people who did not belong in the first place.</p>
<p>1.) So that you don't pick a career as an eighteen year old.
2.) So that you don't enter the raw memorization of medicine without a broad liberal arts discipline first, which enhances creative thinking.</p>
<p>You gain a lot of maturity and insight in your four years of college. Consequently, many people wisen up and decide not to do medicine. Quitely frankly, after reading some of the posts in this forum, I'm pretty glad HSers are not allowed to enter medical school directly. <em>shudder</em></p>
<p>"So that you don't enter the raw memorization of medicine without a broad liberal arts discipline first, which enhances creative thinking."</p>
<p>I disagree. The US system needs that "liberal art" education simply because their high school system is too lacking. In europe, all the liberal art/general requirement usually taught at normal colleges (not colleges like Duke, Harvard...) has been taught in high school. That's why students are able to study medecine directly.</p>
<p>For example, I have never touched a scantron before going to the US. I don't see how creativity can be shown in US High school if you are constantly tested through multiple choice scantron.</p>
<p>Norcalguy, empirically, I tend to think that US medical graduate tend to do worse, not better, even with their great maturity, their large liberal art curriculum. I've never seen so many problems with malpractice, insurance premiums etc.. in medecine until I went to the US.</p>
<p>Arguing that medical degrees in other countries as less advanced than medical degrees in the US is not right. A medical graduate from UK or France will have completed similar courses to a medical graduate from the US, even though he/she graduated faster (typically 6 yrs, though most of the time it's more like 7 yrs because many people fail their 1st yr).</p>
<p>In fact, a US medical graduate tend to have "crammed" all his theory of medecine in only the 2 first yrs of medical school. THe european system spreads this knowledge to 3 yrs, I think, which is much much more healthy for the medical students.</p>
<p>Things like malpractice are a product of the US healthcare system. US doctors get away with a lot less than foreign doctors. It doesn't mean they make more/fewer mistakes.</p>
<p>In terms of technical knowledge, I don't think much of what we learn in undergrad has any relevance to when we are doctors. However, I do think college is a good time to develop social and communication skills so critical to being a physician. Keep in mind, a good physician needs to be compassionate and a good communicator, not just a good diagnostician and technical analyst. The US, more so than most foreign countries, emphasizes the softer side of medicine.</p>
<p>"Keep in mind, a good physician needs to be compassionate"</p>
<p>Hey, I disagree on this one. In most severe cases, a doctor actually has to learn how to repress any feelings to adopt the best approach possible, because saving lives is the priority. Of course, he can become compassionate, but that's not a requirement. He has to learn to "go on," because otherwise, he might become mad with so much feelings like guilt, compassion, sadness stored inside.</p>
<p>PS: I try to maintain healthy disagreement, no hostility, to enhance the perspectives of others and my own perspective on medecine on this forum.</p>
<p>Compassion can still be present even if it is not present on the outside. In my opinion, to have no compassion in the field of medicine (be it internal or not), certainly means it's time to seek a new profession.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Keep in mind, a good physician needs to be compassionate"</p>
<p>Hey, I disagree on this one. In most severe cases, a doctor actually has to learn how to repress any feelings to adopt the best approach possible, because saving lives is the priority. Of course, he can become compassionate, but that's not a requirement. He has to learn to "go on," because otherwise, he might become mad with so much feelings like guilt, compassion, sadness stored inside.</p>
<p>PS: I try to maintain healthy disagreement, no hostility, to enhance the perspectives of others and my own perspective on medecine on this forum.
[/quote]
I think whether a doctor needs to be compassionate or not depends on what kind of doctor you're talking about. Being a family physician, for example, would need to have lots of such qualities because it involves much direct contact with patients. Neurosurgeons on the other hand wouldn't need it as much because their main jobs involve less dialogue with patients.</p>
<p>But, my point was that medicine is not only about anatomy and histology. There are many psychosocial, ethical, and moral considerations. I've looked at the curricula of some foreign med schools and for the most part, there is little on these other components of medicine.</p>
<p>lol I just randomly picked neurosurgeon even though I knew almost nothing about it. If it's a bad example, then what's a good one? I'm curious to know.</p>
<p>I think it's also important to differentiate being compassionate with having good bedside manner. Some specialties involve little patient contact but it doesn't mean compassion isn't a driving force for the physician.</p>
<p>If you plan to practice in the U.S., I would strongly recommend going to undergrad/ medical school in the U.S. Go to college here, apply, and if, and only if you are not accepted to med school in the U.S., then apply abroad. There are a lot of issues with accreditation in certain countries. In any event, you will be treated as a foreign grad and will need to take ECFMG, and also have potential difficulties in matching for residencies unless you are at the top of your class. It is a lot easier path professionally to get your education here. I would not do it to save time or money. I agree that getting a broad liberal arts education rather than a "trade" or "professional" degree early is preferable in the long run-you will be better educated. </p>
<p>Exceptions to this are Canadian med schools which are accredited in the U.S. However, some do not even take Americans or foreign students though e.g., Univ. British Columbia just like some U.S. state schools do not take non-residents. The competition to schools like Toronto or McGill for Americans in quite firece. I had a colleague who graduated from the Univ. of Dublin because she married an Irishman who was attending medical school there. I guess compelling personal reasons may also dictate whether one attends a foreign medical school.</p>
<p>He rails against the need for compassion, as well as has a problem with US MedMal issues (which obviously is far more contingent on the US legal landscape rather than the medical care).</p>
<p>Surprising though that most research has shown that being compassionate (talking to patients and their families, keeping them informed, saying they're sorry they had this outcome, etc) is often the easiest thing a physician can do to prevent being sued.</p>
<p>"Surprising though that most research has shown that being compassionate (talking to patients and their families, keeping them informed, saying they're sorry they had this outcome, etc) is often the easiest thing a physician can do to prevent being sued."</p>
<p>THat's being compassionate on the OUTSIDE. That doesn't mean you store the compassion in the INSIDE.</p>
<p>"as well as has a problem with US MedMal issues"
Of course I have issues with this. Regardless of the origin (lack of compassion on the outside or lack of skill), it seems american doctors specifically and american health care in general suck. Plainly and totally. There is a lack of efficiency in the system that is appalling.</p>
<p>"saying they're sorry they had this outcome"</p>
<p>Something that happens so rarely with American doctors that it has become an oddity. For example, I watched on the Health Channel to interns literally breaking the hip joint of a lady while doing the typical work of a chiropractor. Instead of being sorry, they start joking with each other about it, and trying to justify that they couldn't have done any better. My foot! Wow, that's american compassion. And you can pull enormous evidence of such appalling behavior in the US.</p>