Chinese-national students exempted from the freaking SAT - unfair!

Student Lounge International Students
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Oh, I forgot to mention that the vacancy of SAT testing center definitely has nothing to do with politics.

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<p>America and China are capable of making underwear a political issue (I kid you not). I can conceive of a scenario where it's motivated by politics: China lets the best and brightest, those who stand out without SAT scores, make it abroad. Middle class children who aren't that good are not given the option of taking the SAT, meaning they are less tempted to leave China. (I just made this up, but I'd be surprised if it weren't at least part of the reason). </p>

<p>The fact that there are GRE, TOEFL, GMAT and even LSAT centres in China is a pretty good indication that it's more than business that prevents SAT centres from opening. The fact that international students are allowed to take the SAT in mainland China simply cries out political intervention. There is no logic to it otherwise.</p>

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<p>tenniscraze: maybe you're a little brainlackcraze</p>

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FACT: asians have the highest average SAT scores.

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<p>if anything, it puts us at a disadvantage. asians in ivies/prestigous schools score 50-100, and 10 years ago as high as 200, points higher on their SAT as whites, so let's not even mention how much higher than average blacks in ivies. </p>

<p>china doesnt want their brightest to go abroad for school; why would they want THAT? they spent 12 years educating these people, the time, the money, the effort, they want these people to serve in china. </p>

<p>politically, china has always taken a, sort of isolationism, policy. recently, its getting better and better. they never wanted western interventions in their affairs. it was the stupid open door policy that forced them into contact. i think they have GRE centers, its because, 18 year old fresh out of highshool kids don't have enough chinese pride yet. they dont feel "connected" or love their country as much as they could. if these people were allowed to go abroad, they wont come back. but by grad school, the government feels slightly more comfortable with sending these people abroad, knowing that at least 50% of them will return. these people might have already had a family/kids/things that will keep them rooted in china. statistically, this is true. so these people can now get a good american education and take that knowledge back to china where they will serve their country.</p>

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<p>exactly. if SAT is a must, i am sure the chinese students will have no problem in it. When they say they fear getting a low score in SAT... that may mean getting 600 or below. (most from those local secondary school in china have every ability to get 800 in maths section). Again, if you know how the local secondary school system works, u'll know SAT is completey nothing. even the SAT IIs.</p>

<p>Regarding China might not want their students to go overseas for college. Well, i doubt if any country want their students to go overseas and then consequently stay in that country and serve others? Of course no country wants that. However, politics intervention is definitely not a major reason why there's no SAT in China.</p>

<p>I think SAT will be available in China in the very near future. (just my opinion) this is because China has been open to the world only for less than 2 decades. I remember business ppl or even tourist or even my family do not dare to enter China in the 70s or even late 80s due to the politics and the late cultural revolution. Then how could there be SAT then?</p>

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<p>Yep, in the foreseen future, SAT testing service will be definitely available due to increasing demand for it. As China is on its successful transformation from a central-regulated economy to a market-based economy, I am pretty optimistic that the law of supply and demand will play a part in propping up the opening of test centers.</p>

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<p>Why don't you go to Beijing University ("Bei Da")? Isn't it also like a really good uni, and it will be a good opportunity for you to serve your country. My sister went there to study Chinese. So like, why do you even need to come to the US?</p>

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<p>because its impossibly hard to go to Beijing University given the amount of people in china... that's y people go abroad.. same in india, i think its probably easier to go to columbia for indians than to go to their top universities</p>

<p>and i was using the serving country thing as a explaination for why the GOVERNMENT wants to keep their people in, not ME personally. so ur argument made no sense.</p>

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<p>"because its impossibly hard to go to Beijing University given the amount of people in china... that's y people go abroad.. same in india, i think its probably easier to go to columbia for indians than to go to their top universities"</p>

<p>xokandykyssesox, you really have to put this statement into the right context. its NOT really easier to get into the American universities than Indian ones FROM india. </p>

<p>Firstly, If you are good enough to get into an American top univ, you most definitely are good enough to get into the Indian one. The amount of sh!t you have to go through to make it to a U.S. univ from india is no joke! No university in India will require you to take like 5 standardized test (all the SATs I and IIs) write a bizzillion essays, get 50 reccomendations etc. You just write a friggin hard entrance exam. and thats the end of it. The american way not necessarily easier/more difficult. The process is just a different kind of difficulty. Neither is a piece of cake! anyone who thinks so, is either stupid or just waaaay tooo patriotic!</p>

<p>Secondly, if you're anywhere not near the topmost strata of soceity you neither have the finances nor are you aware of the process. This is the reason mostly only really really really freaking rich Indian kids go to study in the states. And why do they do this? Cuz they have the money! Most of these guys end up working in the U.S. itself OR they come back and join Dad's business. Another reason is that these people seek the American Univ. exposure since they can afford it. IN GENERAL, American Universities build all round people and place an importance on the overall person, while Indian Univ's nurture and value brains, not people. Its not necessarily their fault, the load of applicants is just too much and they are forced to place everything purely on scores. So, the main reason for these guys going to U.S. is definitely not cuz its "easier". Its cuz they can afford it, and they want the experience.</p>

<p>This is how it goes down in India, I dont know if the same is true of China but I'm assuming its similar.</p>

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<p>Do you know how hard it is to get into Beijjing Uni and TsingHua uni? Do you know how great the pressure is? Do you know how those secondary school students studied in order to get to those two university? I read this book written by a teacher in mainland china which talks about how her students, who are all very very intelligent and smart, committed suicide due to stress, only study and have no time for their parents, ignored their family, etc etc. And do you know the studying scene in those two universities? Students are studying like mad. They can sit with their books for more than 10 hours a day amid the very hot temperature with air con in summer. (okay, but i am not saying that they can hence have more contribution to society, nor am i saying that they are greater people than other students in other country.... ermm.. get what i mean? haha) I agree that getting into american colleges is way easier than getting into those two universities, considering their different admission policies and basis.</p>

<p>I think that the US college admission is better personally because they look at all sides of a student, not only the tests and exams results. They look at the PERSON, not purely the numbers. And it is important because when one enter the work force, enter the society, it's not about numbers anymore. it's about how y ou interact with other people, how fast you learn, how well you deal with things. That's why it's important to have a full development, not only in academics, but also in other areas (if y ou ahve the resources to do so...)</p>

<p>However, I think many of those students who come, or intend to come to US for college did not purely apply because it's easier to get into than beijing uni/tsinghua. I think they want the exposure. they want to see what it is like, they want to understand the US culture. Without understanding one another's culture, there can be no advancement. Moreover, we are now in this age when we talk about globalization, internationalism (okay.. is there such a thing? :p there is such a thing in chinese terms). I guess it's the experience that has attracted them to attempt entering US for college. For those who decided to stay... maybe this is because they are given better pay/living condition than going back to China. However, again I would say, more and more students will go back to China in the future when China begins to prosper....</p>

<p>What do you guys think?</p>

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<p>i think that's true too. i mean, i really like living in china, but its next to impossible to get into those top schools. here, theres so many schools and the competition is not that cutthroat. </p>

<p>america has a whole bunch of universities. if u dont get into harvard, there's always columbia... if u dont get into ivies, there's always publics like berkeley and umichigan. if u dont get into ivies but like private schools, there's always LAC... </p>

<p>what happens in china? theres 13 billion people with 2 top schools. they take like 20 people/province... u really think u have a chance? even if u did, what happens if u're not those 20 people but STILL incredibly hardworking and smart?.... </p>

<p>its us, the new generation, that will sort of change things in china. but we can't really do that if we dont get an education. and if we cant go to top chinese university, then going abroad is our other option.</p>

<p>btw, i think it's a funny cycle: its harder to get into beijing than harvard, but its easier to do an exchange at beijing once you go to harvard</p>

<p>what can i say? this is how the world works</p>

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<p>"its harder to get into beijing than harvard"...can you explain why xokandykyssesox? and are you saying this from a domestic applicants perspective, or one of an intl applying to harvard?</p>

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<p>well... for u.s. domestic applicants, it is definitely easier to get into harvard than for a chinese domestic to get into beijing. the whole process of application is different. here, you have your SAT score, your GPA, your essay, and your ECs and extras. There, they only judge you on your entrance exam. It's not something simple like the SAT where you just take it. It's an exam that not only includes a broad range, but an incredibly difficult range of topics. </p>

<p>let's say you're in america. if you wanted to go to harvard since 6th grade, u kind of know how to work toward it; you'll get good highschool grades, which isnt hard to get a 4.0, take bunch of AP classes, and do well on the SAT. then you can find some extracurricular activity that u like doing and do them. maybe you might not get into harvard, but princeton or stanford is not that bad either... at least you have a shot. even if you're not THAT smart, u can still get a 4.0 and do fairly well on the SAT. There's not THAT much stuff on the SAT to study for. So as long as u are dedicated, then u have a fair shot.</p>

<p>In china, u can go home and study 10+ hours each day for 6 years, and still not go to Beijing. its actually a case where almost 1/2 of the people devote to that kind of schedule.. would all of these people end up in a top university? there's just too many people. the chinese college entrance exam is different not only in that it tests from math to chinese to english to science to history... I think the worst part is, you don't get to know what you got right away. It's not like the SAT scores come out 2 weeks after the SAT, u know your score, you have a mental preparation of where you can get into. The chinese test, you basically have to memorize all your answers. The answers then get published in the newspaper, and you have to 


GUESS

what you got on it. With that guessed score, you put down your top college choices in order of preference. that order is extremely important too. and then your scores come out; if you guessed too high and put down a reach for first choice, it might even be difficult for u to get into your match now since priority comes to those who qualify for that match school and put it down as their first choice. if you guessed too low and put down a school lower than your score, you loose your chance of going to that top school. if you think about it, college time in china is a VERY very VERY stressful time. it is sometimes the case where the student gets a really really great score but didn't think he/she did that well and as a result lost the chance of going to the top school.</p>

<p>the chinese test is far from the SAT in that it is incredible incredible hard to get a perfect. it's not something u say, "oh i'm gonna get a perfect score" and can easily accomplish. think about it, millions of people just like you are trying too. preparation doesnt come freshmen year or junior year, it comes from 4th or 6th grade. you start working hard even before middle school.... its stressful for elementary school students to get into a good middle school, so they can then go to a good highschool, where they will even have a shot at getting into a good college. so these kids start studying EVER SINCE 4th or 6th grade and even if they tried really hard, chances are they won't get a perfect score. if a person was to really score perfect, then they get big publicity... especially if you're from a small rural place, then you're town will really respect and be proud of you. to go to beijing, you basically have to get a score that is TOP 20 IN YOUR PROVINCE, and that province is about twice the size of a state in area, and SO MANY TIMES the amount of people in a US state. </p>

<p>the way the test is written, it is so that it's incredibly hard to get them all right. this way, there will be a difference between the scores of individuals. they put harder and harder things on there just so you cant score all perfect, that way, there will be a bigger stretch in scores from those that are geniuses and those that just try hard.</p>

<p>in terms of international chinese applying to harvard, i dont really know the statistics of how many actually apply or get in, but it definitely is another option if they have the chance. internationals can get in with 90+ averages if they package themselves right on the application, so those that might never have stood a chance in beijing still has a chance at harvard.</p>

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<p>I've been to Beijing University before and the place loooks pretty run-down to me for the "most prestigious school" in China.</p>

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<p>Some questions in the entrance exam come out even teachers spend hours solving it! Especially the last one or question in math or science paper, i think more than 95% of the students cannot solve it.</p>

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<p>I couldn't agree more with you! I took the frickin' hard national unified college entrance examination last year and it was nothing more than a mere torture. Those science and math questions are definitely hard... Anyways, that was the past and now I'm in the US... Still being tortured anyway, but in a less ruthless way...</p>

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<p>AP chem tomorrow... haha, havent have chemistry since 10th grade. WHAT a torture... im burning brain cells... hopefully they're getting stronger and not, like, disappearing.</p>

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<p>lol, i know what you are talking about.
i took bio today and had to use a lot of...er, creativity to make up for lost memory cells, for the essay portion especially.
well, anyway, good luck!</p>

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<p>As far as I know, from my experience as a Canadian-born Chinese studying overseas in China, most of the mainland SAT test centers are found at the site of large international schools with American-based curricula (i.e. International School of Beijing, Shanghai American School). These are closed test centers that operate exclusively for the benefit of the students of those particular schools. Not only are they closed to mainland Chinese citizens (non foreign passport holders), but they might even be closed to international students studying at different international schools in the same city! So you can see the dilemma that Chinese nationals might have in securing SAT test-taking opportunities.</p>