choice of major--effect on acceptance

Parents Forum
1

<p>(I moved this from another thread where I put it in error)
My rising jr D has the 'usual' profile of most CCrs--top 10%, gifted w/AP-honors courses, PLAN projected 29-32 on ACT, good ECs, etc. As a child she wanted to be a physician but is now leaning toward clinical psychologist or attorney. Her passion is art(s): all visual arts (has won 2 contests and has commission to decorate a local hotel lobby!) and music (budding drummer w/non-school band, EM/Indie music devotee). She is tentatively (at this age isn't everything tentative?) planning to major in psychology or psych/soc and 2nd major/minor in art. </p>

<p>Personally, I wonder if majoring in such 'soft' and commonly picked subjects (mho) will adversely affect her acceptance chances--psych esp seems such a common major and defintiely requires grad work (one survey showed a Psych BA had the lowest entry level salary of the 20 most common majors)--at recent college visit, most females present preferred hard sciences like chemistry or biomedical engineering or 'premed' etc., which leads me to worry that psych/art may be too 'common' or unambitious, and such a combo is probably not an academic 'hook' for admin officers esp at the selective LACs she is pursuing. </p>

<p>Is there anything to be gained, acceptance-wise, by selecting 'undecided' or 'pre-law' over pscyh as a major when applying? If she applies at schools strong in psych would declaring as a psych major offer a better acceptance opportunity.</p>

<p>Finally, can anyone supply info on which LACs offer the strongest psych and/or art depts? D's safety is instate U of ILL which has a very good psych dept but also has about 22,000 more students than she wants in her college choice. She is much more interested in Grinnell, Ursinus, Oberlin, Earlham, Bryn Mawr and other WI/OH/PA LACs--with a liberal, non-preppy/non-Greek/activist bent, which eliminates some good schools. At this point, she still thinks everything will just fall into place, and I am overwhelmed trying to put all the info together for her review.</p>

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<p>Most admission offices put little weight in the majors identified on applications as they know majors are likely to change. therefore it will not impact your daughter's chances to put down psychology or another major on her application. since she is interested in art/music she may have to submit a portfolio or audition to some schools in order to major in those areas. If it is not too far east for you your daughter might want to consider Skidmore. It seems to fit well with her liberal, activist, non-Greek bent, but even more importantly has a first rate arts/music program and a very strong psychology department. Many students double major in art or music and another academic discipline at Skidmore. If she is interested in grad school the psychology department has a good track record in preparing students for advanced study in psychology.</p>

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<p>Rising junior? Things will change again, believe me. The most important part right now is to make sure that her classes this next year are the most challenging she can take, and that she works hard to do the very best she can. I don't think that the choice of major will make any difference to admission to a LAC.</p>

<p>I think every high school/freshman girl considers psychology as a major at some part. IMO, it is a dead end. To do clinical psychology seriously, one needs a graduate degree and a biology major would serve her much better. But I'd give 100 to one odds that she won't stay interested in psych.</p>

<p>If her passion is art, and she is talented, go for it! You know, money isn't everything, and there are always ways to incorporate art into other endeavors.</p>

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<p>My daughter had a strong interest in psychology, and put that as her prospective major on her college aps. This interest dovetailed with several of her ec's (volunteering with autistic children, big brothers/big sisters, etc.) She did very well with college admissions, including acceptance at her first choice highly selective school. So, I don't think its the major itself that the schools care about, but rather how that interest is reflected in what the student pursued in high school.<br>
Post script: my d. will be starting her doctorate program in psych in the fall.</p>

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<p>wow--great insights. Skidmore will be on our checklist. My dtr does know she would have to commit to a PhD for clin psych--she is also considering psych as a background for JD. She has experience with eating disorder and OC behaviors (she is OK now) but wants to help other teens with body image issues and 'gifted child' labes as a counselor or physician; also wants to 'make a difference' and is active in her mock trial/BSA law post and talks about becoming a procecutor or a 'women's issues' attorney. I know she still has lots of time to decide on a course in college and life but I suppose all parents want their children to have happy as well as materially successful lives--psych and art majors worry me on the last issue more than the first.</p>

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<p>bookmom, I answered on the other thread, but will repeat (amended) for the record as a lot of parents don’t understand that many kids change their mind about their majors time and again over the course of their college careers.</p>

<p>I have a niece who sounds very much like your daughter. Unfortunately (and NOT like your daughter) she barely graduated from highschool since she was so beset with psychological issues, including eating disorders, but now, two degrees later and several years of working with low income urban female teenagers, she is on her way to a PhD in social work. I don't know if she'll ever make a ton of money but talk about personal satisfaction!</p>

<p>Psychology IS a fairly popular major these days, but I don’t see any indication that it’s viewed as a negative. If you're concerned about its being too commonplace, your daughter should just indicate "undecided" on her application. This is normal and acceptable. She sounds like she has wide and varied academic interests – both verbal and scientific -- which is viewed as a good thing. Kids go in thinking one thing and end up at another. A combination of science/math and humanities/social studies is common and encouraged. </p>

<p>Your daughter’s art and music interests can be presented as ECs. She should put together an arts package with slides, a resume (including a list of classes/grades/scores, achievements and awards, a statement of her interests, art-related travel), a recommendation from an art teacher and a short essay. (Many colleges ask for an essay describing the EC that means the most to you.) Depending on her level of achievement she could do the same with music.</p>

<p>Some LACs with good studio art departments are: Williams, Wesleyan, Hamilton, Conn College, Skidmore and Kenyon. My son who ended up at Williams (which by the way has many draws for your daughter: strong, psych department, great art deparment including world class museums, excellent law school placemenats and an emphasis on the performing arts) liked all of these. Others that I’ve not visited are Bard, Vassar, Smith, Barnard.</p>

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<p>Has your D taken a psych course? She won't really know if its for her until she studies it in earnest. If she is interested in a woman's college, add Wellesley to your list. We visited it and were extremely impressed and I believe that they have a stronger visual arts dept than Bryn Mawr (which is know for art history, however. )
Good luck.</p>

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<p>My D will take a psych class her sr yr and maybe Psych 101 during summer at the local community college--she is Acing Art 101 there this summer. Thanks for the heads up on Wellesley--we'll look into that too.</p>

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<p>Bookmom
Has your D considered art therapy as a major/career path?
Have her look into it ,it might dovetail her interests and spark some excitement.The only problem, and I might be wrong, is that she may not be able to persue that type of major at the kind of school she seems to favor right now.</p>

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<p>I wonder if she would find art therapy interesting in the long-run...has she considered psychiatry v. psychology? If she likes science and psych its a perfect mix.</p>

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<p>She actually considered med school but peds not psych; but while she is taking Calc this fall she really doesn't like math and is foregoing physics for another science her senior yr so I think she is headed more toward social sciences/psychology than the hard sciences in college. Art therapy is something she has mentioned but we haven't looked for an actual major in it--something else to check out!</p>

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<p>Psychology is a massive discipline ranging from work with pigeons and chimps, to neuroimaging of learned behavior, to adult clinical, to industrial/organizational, to developmental endocrinology, to name a few. It can lead in many directions and "true majors" aren't typically chosen until late in the undergrad experience. </p>

<p>As for whether or not a major area of interest can help, the answer is yes. This past year, one reason one of S's closest friends was admitted with large $$ to a "top Ivy" was because she emphatically expressed a desire to major in an area that has not historically attracted many students for which the University had a separate endowment. (One cannot simply write one is interested, however, one must have demonstrated it as S's friend did through independent summer study and research projects.) </p>

<p>The friend became the subject of a bidding war between the Ivy and another well-known private university that actually has (in the friend's opinion) a more demanding and better department, but also many more majors in the area. Although the friend's heart was at the better program, the Ivy ended up offering more money, so it won. (There was a long period of buyer's remorse, but that has past and the friend is now happier with the choice).</p>

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<p>Just a couple of thoughts. As idad's post illustrates - a strong interest in a less-popular field of study can be a good hook. That doesn't mean that being interested in a more common field will hurt ... just that it doesn't add anything special to the application. If the goal is to win admission into a reach school, then the application needs to stand out in some way -- but it definitely does not have to be choice of major. </p>

<p>It is true that many students will change their majors in college. I did. But that doesn't invalidate the process of researching majors and departments. You need some criteria to decide where to go, and at least if the kid heads off to somewhere with a good pysch department AND a good art department, you know she is not going to be frustrated by the lack of same. If when she is at college she ends up pursuing something else - fine. If pre-law or pre-med are also possible interests - not to worry - just about every college has appropriate courses and majors for kids with those interests. </p>

<p>I've chosen to help my daughter by researching the more unusual majors she might be interested in. She also has mentioned biology, poli sci, and pysch as possible majors -- and my basic response is: every college that she is looking at offers those majors. Any college that is a good academic match for her will probably offer plenty to keep her busy in any one of those areas. It is the more esoteric majors where research is needed -- because she doesn't want to arrive on campus and then find herself in a place where she can't even explore an area of interest. There's a difference between changing one's mind over time and being forced to a different choice because of lack of opportunity.</p>

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<p>Getting into a school that will be a delightful fit for your D really does sometimes take the amount of thought and research you are about to undertake..so don't let me discourage you from looking beyond campus charms to serious review of campus curriculums. Not that esoteric majors as hooks didn't cross our minds for our S, but in the end, my counsel is that this is not necessary or of much use to worry about that. And can possibly seem stilted or unnatural if not backed up by courses or internships reflecting real knowledge of said potential major.
If her ECs demonstrate her creativity and her ability to add color and presence to her campus, I feel confident she will have many choices and that dwelling on presenting her as an "unusual major" student is not really necessary. I would take that energy and help her more by visiting schools in person, get her exposed to good college essay examples, and help her with time management and maintaining her enthusiasm as she becomes an upperclassman so that she can exude leadership and zest in her ECs. Her reference letters matter and her grades matter, but I think you can rest a bit on this subject unless she truly has a very specific path you must plan for carefully. Best!</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>Choice of major can have an impact on admission at many colleges. Choose a highly popular major like psychology and you can lower your chances. Many colleges have a projected number of those it intends to admit to particular majors and for a highly popular major the ratio of admits to applicants can be lower than other less popular majors.</p></li>
<li><p>Colleges graduate huge numbers of psychology majors and it is one of the most difficult majors for finding employment.</p></li>
<li><p>Art can be a difficult major to get into depending on how the college runs its program. For studio art you usually have to submit works you have done and interview with professors and a committee decides if you have enough talent to be admitted. Performing music operates similarly.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Drusba's points are valuable, but I still maintain that most colleges expect tons of kids to say they are "pre-law" or "pre-med" and then find their way into different majors. I have several friends employed with Psych degrees teaching at the university level or with PhDs working in mental health careers, and it is a good degree for pre-meds and pre-law students as long as their GPRs are great and they demonstrate talent in math, science or on LSAT exams. So again, unless she wants to study primates and needs a primate center, or she wants a top BME program or Wharton or a school with cutting edge computer science, I think admissions committees leave quite a lot of room for undecideds and seek just plain talented kids who tend to tackle material and contribute to their communities. Unusual major is a good thing but not a necessary thing in our recent experience.</p>

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<p>Choice of major can have a major impact at those universities where a major can fall into a particular "college". These colleges may have their own admissions standards. Choosing to apply as a Communications major at Syracuse, for example, means applying to Newhouse, which is significantly more selective than the College of Arts & Sciences. (Often, universities with this kind of organization either process the app for the "default" undergrad program too, or have a check-box by which the applicant can ask to be considered for that program as well.)</p>

<p>The "unpopular major" route can be a boost for applicants at selective schools, but as others have noted the interest in that major should be supported by coursework, ECs, etc. to be taken seriously.</p>

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<p>I don't think anyone should go hunting for an unusual major just for the sake of increasing application chances. </p>

<p>I think if there has been demonstrated interest and preparation, then it is valuable to be going for a major that tends to be underenrolled but is still high priority for that college. My d. happens to have a very strong interest in an area where she will have very stand-out credentials. She's not 100% sure (does she really want to continue the field that has been her passion in high school, or does she want to branch out?) -- but if it will give her a leg up on admissions, she should use it. It is likely that at the most selective colleges she will be the only (or one of a small handful) of students to indicate that interest - and it is unlikely that there will be others who have the same experience she now has. That's not the same as picking some esoteric major at random. It's just sticking with what she's got.</p>

<p>I don't think it hurts to indicate a common major at a LAC or a college that is fairly flexible in the way students select majors. They probably do expect kids to change. However, I do think it hurts at schools that expect students to declare majors early, that lack flexibility about changed majors, and schools that have designated some majors as "impacted". I know the UC system has done this, and I'm pretty sure that if my daughter were to pick "psychology" as a proposed major for UC Berkeley, that would doom her application. My son got into Berkeley as an "undecided". Most UC campuses allow students to pick a first & second choice on the app; Berkeley allows only one. I figure they sort by the numbers -- my d. has a choice of picking the major that is a hook - and would radically increase chances of admission - or to forego that advantage. The thing is -- if she goes to Berkeley - she would be wise to go into the unusual major (excellent department, small faculty with small classes - probably a very intimate and special educational experience) - and IMHO she would be nuts to want to go as an undergrad to Berkeley to major in a large, over-enrolled department. When I was in college I shopped around for majors for awhile, and the dynamics of the department made a huge difference. I really wanted to be a poli sci major, but I hated the atmosphere in the poli sci department - so I found a different, smaller department that offered interdepartmental, individualized majors, where I was far more comfortable. </p>

<p>I also think that it would be hurtful to designate a major where an applicant was weak. If the math SAT scores are low & highest level of high school math is trig... probably not a good idea to choose math or engineering as a major at a highly competitive college. Same story if science prep is weak. I mean, the college isn't going to necessarily count the major designation itself against the applicant, but they will weigh the application in light of the major. Either say "undecided" or pick a major where high school prep and grades look strong, at least in closely related subjects.</p>

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<p>Just my guess about the effect on admissions, but here goes:</p>

<p>There is an effect, but it is, for the most part, random and speculative. To be more precise: a college cannot have 1,000 incoming English majors out of 1,200 students. That just doesn't work. But - yours could be the year that there are an abundance of physics majors who got in, or English, or psych, or whatever. It probably changes each year and varies among each college. So it is highly speculative.</p>

<p>Furthermore, from what I've heard, admissions officers don't put too much stock into the exact major. They know that these things change, within certain parameters. For example, if 10 students come in as English majors, 4 of them might stay that way, one might be anthropology, one sociology, two psych, and one foreign language. So putting down psych v. English won't make much of a difference - they know that the student is a humanities/social science type.</p>

<p>Also, these people are fairly aware of the student's academic and extracurricular history. They can probably tell from the teachers chosen for recommendations, the courses taken (dropped history to double up on sciences, which APs taken, CC courses, etc), and the ECs (science team v. French Club) what the student will probably major in. So that little line for "potential major" won't mean much. </p>

<p>That all said, I do think that there are some times when major is important. An example: my friend, who had spent years working at camps and teaching children; whose essay was about why he wanted to be a elementary school teacher; and who put "child studies," a 96% female major, down on his application - in a school which is renowned for its child development major. I think that might have made a (very positive) difference. </p>

<p>Guess I'm just trying to say that parents and children split way more hairs over each detail of the application than the admissions officers do. :p</p>