<p>I understand - but even in the ritziest areas of Seattle's east side, I can't find a high school in our data set with rates that high.</p>
<p>At any rate, it being Marin County, as far as a strategy, so much the better! :)</p>
<p>It might not be that high. It was what my son said. :)</p>
<p>Many of the top academic kids, that go on to top schools, are some of the biggest pot smokers, and their parents know.</p>
<p>That's exactly why the strategy "might" work. (Might not either, but at least would express some seriousness on the part of Middlebar.)</p>
<p>I think the issue is drinking responsibly. Some teenager/college students can do this/ others can not. Some can with help/education, others unfortunately learn the hard way.</p>
<p>I do think that students are less likely to binge drink in a bar where they're paying high drink prices than at a party.</p>
<p>Yup. That's exactly what the University of Oklahoma has found thus far in banning all alcohol on campus, even in student apartments where students are over 21. Students who want to drink DO go to town (and the town is partially happy - higher taxes - and partially not - more drunks), but both the number of binge drinkers, and the the overall number of drinkers has been cut in half.</p>
<p>I know very, very few low-income students who can afford significant quantities of hard liquor four times in a two-week period.</p>
<p>"We also had one of the leading authorities about drugs and how it affects the brain come and talk to students at a couple of Marin schools. I don't see any change in behavior."</p>
<p>Oh, that NEVER works (for high school students). (Lecturing kids on the brain effects of drugs is NOT an evidence-based practice - it has been tried, in multiple settings, with control groups, and doesn't cut it.)</p>
<p>(But hit 'em in their college admissions, and who knows?)</p>
<p>I doubt it will work. </p>
<p>I have never smoked, taken an illicit drug, have probably had 4 drinks maximum in my life (after adding the sips), and my kids did not follow.</p>
<p>We also had one of the leading authorities about drugs and how it affects the brain come and talk to students at a couple of Marin schools. I don't
see any change in behavior.</p>
<p>Many successful adults partake in the above activities and the kids look and say, "It didn't affect the adults, it won't affect us."</p>
<p>Plus, it feels good.</p>
<p>Haverford's solution--- in Sunday's Phila Inquirer</p>
<p>Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)
February 18, 2007
Section: LOCAL NEWS PHILADELPHIA & THE REGION
Edition: CITY-D
Page: B01</p>
<p>'Quaker bouncers' keep parties in line
Students at Haverford watch out for others with gentle firmness.
Susan Snyder INQUIRER STAFF WRITER</p>
<p>It's after midnight, and the crowd at this Haverford College '80s-theme dance has reached critical mass: Several hundred students fill the on-campus hall, moving to the music and chatting with friends.</p>
<p>A male student approaches Justin Meyerowitz, 20, who is stationed at the front door: "You've got a girl throwing up on the steps." Meyerowitz rushes to the student, who has her head down and a garbage bag in hand - the result of too much rum earlier in the evening. He radios security officers, who arrive in two minutes and call for an ambulance.
It is another emergency handled by Meyerowitz and his crew, all students at the Main Line institution.</p>
<p>They call themselves the "Quaker bouncers," Haverford having Quaker roots.</p>
<p>Their job? Monitoring on-campus parties. Their mission? Students looking out for students.</p>
<p>The Quaker bouncers check for identification at the entrance, prohibit students from bringing alcohol in, patrol the halls and restrooms, and serve as a link between the party attendees and college security.</p>
<p>Although alcohol was not permitted at the '80s party, many students arrived under the influence.</p>
<p>Then-sophomore Jeff Millman, 22, of Mamaroneck, N.Y., started the group in late 2004 after he watched students frantically search for a freshman who had been drinking and taking prescription drugs. She was found slumped in bushes on campus and rushed to a hospital.</p>
<p>"I thought, 'Why don't we do that every night - have a group of people who will give up an evening and be sober and look out for other people?' " he says.</p>
<p>He shared the idea with Haverford officials, who liked it.</p>
<p>"It is student based, student generated," says Tom King, director of safety and security.</p>
<p>Last school year, Haverford had 18 alcohol incidents, which can range from a citation for underage drinking to hospitalization; two-thirds involved hospital visits. This year, there have been 14 incidents.</p>
<p>The idea drew praise from the national Security on Campus, a nonprofit group in King of Prussia. About 1,700 college students die annually from alcohol-related harm, such as car-crash injuries and alcohol poisoning.</p>
<p>"I love it when the spotlight is shined on students who are not getting sucked into the out-of-control drinking," says Catherine Bath, executive director.</p>
<p>Other colleges have students who monitor parties on campus. At Swarthmore, they are "party associates." The University of Pennsylvania has "alcohol monitors." Bryn Mawr employs "party advocates." Each program works a bit differently. All require training and pay monitors; Haverford's crew earns $10.25 an hour.</p>
<p>The Penn program, which started eight years ago, employs only graduate or professional students (those in law, medicine or dental programs).</p>
<p>"We find that the distance between graduate and professional students not being direct peers of undergraduates allows for more consistent upholding of university policies," says Stephanie Ives, director of strategic initiatives.</p>
<p>At Bryn Mawr, training is also required of the hosts and bouncers, in addition to the "advocates," who make sure rules are being enforced but don't necessarily stay throughout a party. The number of hosts and bouncers required for a party depends on its size, college spokesman Matt Gray says.</p>
<p>At Haverford, the effort has become so successful that Millman, who graduated in December and now works in financial services in New York City, is trying to get other colleges to do it. He pitched 29 alcohol companies to sponsor a Web site on training bouncers. He also will address 3,000 college deans at a conference in Florida.</p>
<p>How to handle alcohol on campus is a controversial issue.</p>
<p>Some crack down on underage drinking. Others, including Haverford, ban alcohol for those younger than 21, but take a more liberal approach, says King, Haverford's safety director. A crackdown could force students off campus to drink and discourage them from calling for help if they need it, he says. Virtually all of Haverford's 1,100 students live on campus.</p>
<p>"We're trying to find this balance between respect for and adherence to the law with the realization that obviously neither we, nor the police, can be everywhere 24/7 and that students are going to drink," he says.</p>
<p>The Quaker bouncers work at some parties that serve alcohol - those in student residences - but the host must be 21. The bouncers don't consider it their job to card the partygoers for age.</p>
<p>Shortly before 10 p.m. on a Saturday in late January, Meyerowitz stands on the porch of Founders Hall, addressing his crew of five bouncers. He equips them with radios, assigns them to posts, and explains that the party is open only to students from Haverford, Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore and their guests.</p>
<p>"People will try to scoot around you," warns Meyerowitz, a sophomore from Los Angeles majoring in biochemistry.</p>
<p>He shows them the green dinosaur stamp to give attendees.</p>
<p>About 100 bouncers have been trained in settling conflicts and other issues.</p>
<p>The bouncers don't give first aid, but have kits on hand for students to use. They won't initiate physical contact, but they will engage in self-defense.</p>
<p>A busload of women from Bryn Mawr arrives about 10:30 p.m. dressed in '80s attire, some wearing red, white and blue headbands, "Miami Vice" suits, and oversize sunglasses.</p>
<p>Students must vouch for guests and take responsibility for their behavior. Three people without ID or a friend to vouch for them are turned away early on.</p>
<p>"I don't have my ID," another student says, smiling coyly at a male bouncer. "Wait, it's in my bra," she says, pulling out the card.</p>
<p>Some students appear to have had alcohol already. Others may have slipped it in. One young woman is drinking from a clear tonic-water bottle, and the liquid is brown. Bouncers don't allow beer or liquor bottles inside, but let students bring in other containers. They don't insist on smelling or sampling the liquid.</p>
<p>"We don't want to be intrusive," Meyerowitz explains.</p>
<p>Partygoers say they like having the bouncers on hand. "There's somebody with a more trained eye watching for everybody else," says sophomore Laura Care, 19, of Long Island.</p>
<p>When the group started, some students felt threatened.</p>
<p>"As they understand more that we're not an offshoot of some sort of law-enforcing branch on campus, that we're really there to help them, they like us," says Susanna Tolkin, 20, a sophomore psychology major from Los Angeles.</p>
<p>As the party nears its close, Meyerowitz stays outside with the intoxicated woman as emergency workers prepare to take her to Bryn Mawr Hospital.</p>
<p>The bouncers write a report after each party and submit it to campus officers the next morning. Besides the sick student, there wasn't much to report.</p>
<p>Sometimes, there are unusual infractions.</p>
<p>A 6-foot-2 male swiped a light-strung, potted tree at a formal event and began to run away with it. Tolkin pursued him.</p>
<p>"I was chasing him across campus," she says, "yelling 'Drop the tree. Drop the tree.' "</p>
<p>He did.</p>
<p>The Quaker bouncers saved the day again.</p>
<p>Contact staff writer Susan Snyder at 215-854-4693 or <a href="mailto:ssnyder@phillynews.com">ssnyder@phillynews.com</a>.</p>
<p>philly.com</p>
<p>For all the latest education news in the region, go to <a href="http://go.philly.com/education%5B/url%5D">http://go.philly.com/education</a></p>
<p>Illustration:PHOTO</p>
<p>JONATHAN WILSON / Inquirer Staff Photographer</p>
<p>Leonor Keller (facing camera) patrols the dance floor during an '80s party at Haverford College. One of the "Quaker bouncers," she watches out for fellow students by monitoring parties and checking for trouble. Justin Meyerowitz (left) and Tim Ouellette test radios before a party. They serve as a link to campus security.</p>
<p>Hundreds of students from Haverford, Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore Colleges attended the '80s party. The bouncers kept vigilant watch.</p>
<p>JONATHAN WILSON / Inquirer Staff Photographer</p>
<p>Senior Mike Crawford marks the hand of a party attendee at Haverford College. The bouncers check the identity of guests and try to keep alcohol from being taken in. The University of Pennsylvania, Swarthmore College and Bryn Mawr College have similar programs.</p>
<p>Not accepting drinkers? Wow, I just can't imagine how I would be able to tell who those are. Asking a question - don't think that will help. Plus, we all know that there are many kids who don't drink in high school but go on to drink at college - even heavily.<br>
One thing I read on this board that makes sense is that the word gets out when schools crack down on drinking. So students who want a crazy party scene may begin to avoid these schools (a good thing). Curious to see if that will happen at a place like Lehigh. I understand that they are getting VERY strict - yet the school has a HUGE drinking culture. Fast forward 10 years - will it normalize?
Some have mentioned that schools should make their binge drinking rates public - and it should be part of the ranking/measurement system. I would question the validity of these statistics - it's not quite as scientific as measuring SAT scores. Plus it might just end up attracting more of the wrong type of student to a school that is already having problems.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I doubt it will work.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Really? You think that at schools where parents are spending $15,000 on private counselors to get little Jason and Jennifer into elite colleges, nobody would notice if colleges said they aren't accepting students because the high school has been sending too many drunks?</p>
<p>IMO, you'd see a change in attitude at the binge drinking feeder high schools so fast it would make your head spin.</p>
<p>I doubt it will work.</p>
<p>The biggest drinkers and drug users are the richer kids.</p>
<p>We both know the elite schools are made up of the richer kids.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Not accepting drinkers? Wow, I just can't imagine how I would be able to tell who those are.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You don't rely on identifying individual drunks. You use profiling, just like the admissions offices do today: type of high school, type of activities, parental income levels, etc. </p>
<p>The only difference is that you use the profiling to reduce the number of drunks on campus, rather than increase the number.</p>
<p>I don't think you even have to go that far. Just ask the question....</p>
<p>
[quote]
The biggest drinkers and drug users are the richer kids. We both know the elite schools are made up of the richer kids.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Which is precisely why colleges are not willing to use readily available admissions office tools to reduce the number of drunks on campus.</p>
<p>What do you think I meant when I said earlier that colleges might find that reducing binge drinking runs counter to other admissions priorities?</p>
<hr>
<p>Mini:</p>
<p>I agree that you don't have to go that far. Although blacklisting an affluent feeder school every once in a while would sure put the fear of god into students, parents, and feeder high schools. The feeder schools would be scrambling like cockroaches when you flip the light on at night to address the issue.</p>
<p>If you want to stop our kids from drinking and drug use, you have to stop the adults from drinking and drug use.</p>
<p>You also have to make it less fun and it can't feel as good.</p>
<p>I don't see a negative correlation between drinking and drug use and being a good student. Is there one?</p>
<p>Yeah, there is. We've even run the data in our state. You can see it in my own report (pages 48-49):</p>
<p>Lots and lots of exceptions of course. </p>
<p>There is not only an association between drinking and drug use and grades for individual students, but also between students whose peers drink or drug and those whose peers don't.</p>
<p>It does beg the question, though, of whether low self-esteem that results from poor grades (or poor home life) results in alcohol/drug use, or the other way around. I do have some studies on that question, but they are relatively inconclusive. </p>
<p>"Although blacklisting an affluent feeder school every once in a while would sure put the fear of god into students, parents, and feeder high schools. The feeder schools would be scrambling like cockroaches when you flip the light on at night to address the issue."</p>
<p>Yup , GCs would be shivering in their boots if a Middlebar came asking about the answer a student gave on "the question". You'd end up dealing with the upper class and the tavern at the same time. ;)</p>
<p>Yeah, let's follow the lead at U of OK. Let's ban all alcohol on campus and send kids off campus to drink at local taverns and off campus parties. That way they can die in wrecks on the way home (and hey, maybe they'll kill a few random peds or other drivers in the process). </p>
<p>McCardell is no longer president of Middlebury College and is taking a year off to work on his new project. The current administration has not endorsed his views, so stop making this into a thread about "Middlebar" as you call it. How many students went to the ER at Williams in 2002-2003? At Dartmouth? At Harvard?</p>
<p>The central theme is teaching young adults (who can die in Iraq and vote for president) to drink responsibly, as they do in most other countries. College students are going to drink. Give them the knowledge and means to do so responsibly.</p>
<p>At Williams, roughly 80 (as I remember, it was actually 82, but I didn't look it up; I'm not sure whether that was the year, or the year before Williams closed its health center at night because no physician could be found willing to take on the liability of treating the drunks over night. Now they have to transport them seven miles away in the snow and ice.) I don't have Dartmouth or Harvard #s; I suspect numbers at Dartmouth are equally high, and at Harvard substantially lower. </p>
<p>"College students are going to drink. Give them the knowledge and means to do so responsibly."</p>
<p>The vast majority of college students already do. Just not at Middlebar (or my alma mater, which has just revamped its entire housing and social system - at a cost of over $5.5 million - to try to get a handle). McCardell had his chance and failed miserably in this regard; let's hope the following Pres. comes up with something better. </p>
<p>"Yeah, let's follow the lead at U of OK. Let's ban all alcohol on campus and send kids off campus to drink at local taverns and off campus parties. That way they can die in wrecks on the way home (and hey, maybe they'll kill a few random peds or other drivers in the process)."</p>
<p>Works for me, and seems to be working for them too. It isn't my preferred approach (as noted, there are plenty of others shown to work.)</p>
<p>"Have you ever drunk alcohol or used illicit drugs with your chronological peers? If so, please explain."
OK. So this is "the question". I will go back and put myself in the place of a student applying to college. Of course, I would be honest, and thus, i would have to say - "yes". And then go on to talk about a few situations where I went out drinking with friends in bars (legal age was 18 at that point). And I would then get thrown in with the crazies who binge drink every weekend. And the kids who lie would get in to these schools (how on EARTH could you check other than if they had a violation on record)? God, this doesn't seem fair. So I end up going to a school that doesn't ask "the question" and I'm thrown in with hoards of binge drinkers. Great.<br>
I really think it's crazy to think that admissions officers can select out the drinkers in high school. And the idea of profiling (as opposed to asking "the question" ) actually makes me sick to my stomach. So, if I go to a high school that's known to have a lot of drinkers - I'm done. Hey, let's round up the terrorists while we're at it. That'll make things better...<br>
Admissions is stressful enough these days - we don't need to add yet another component that can be easily gamed and is essentially unfair.
Bottom line, there are no fast and easy rules here. Let's not make the problem worse by assuming there are.</p>
<p>"So I end up going to a school that doesn't ask "the question" and I'm thrown in with hoards of binge drinkers. Great."</p>
<p>You make your bed; you sleep in it. Again, no one would force the college to use the information (just as many don't necessarily use the arrest info.) But the impact on communities even if they didn't use it would be almost immediate.</p>
<p>It's just one approach, among many.</p>
<p>I agree with toneranger.</p>
<p>Mini, maybe your report would change my mid, but can you give me a link that cuts to the chase. </p>
<p>I'm not ready to read hundreds of pages.</p>