Choose the brand name or what you love? (Full time job edition)

Parents Forum
1

<p>Sorry this is so long, but...
I'm a college senior at a top university in NY and I'll be graduating in the spring. Although my major is something completely different, I want to go into IT (particularly information management) and have two job offers in the field. I want to say that I'm ridiculously happy to have these and the ability to choose between jobs, but I still don't know what to do. In short, I think that Company A will provide better technical experience and a culture that I would love to work in, but Company B provides a pedigree and likely better future opportunities.</p>

<p>Company A (healthcare software company) would be a job that is a combination of things I already have experience with and would love to pursue (technical support, customer interaction, and application development). They also have a culture where they hire smart, motivated, and dedicated people, which is an environment I would truly love to work in. A number of people from my school have done well and love it there, including one person I worked with and know well. </p>

<p>However, their work-life balance seems to be poor at times (45-50+ hour work weeks), which doesn't matter as much to me if I really like what I'm doing. Also, their flat corporate structure means there's limited upward mobility, and I'm not sure how applicable my experience might be to other jobs if I decide to move forward elsewhere. Oh, there's also their 1 year non-compete agreement for employment with other health IT competitors. </p>

<p>Company B (well-known defense & IT contractor) is where I interned last summer, and overall the experience wasn't that great. I did a lot of somewhat menial tasks (compiling and manipulating Excel data) that was very helpful for my managers, but that I didn't like. The full-time job with them would be on an enterprise PM team supporting PMs through training, policy, governance, etc., and implementing a web tool I proposed last summer. There do seem to be opportunities to move between teams, move into management, find other projects to focus on, and especially possibility to participate in the company's leadership development program (I'm highly interested in LDPs). </p>

<p>However, I'm not sure that I would like the work and working there. I'm worried it could turn into helpful-for-them-but-not-for-me work like the summer, and that kind of experience isn't helpful for advancing my career there or elsewhere--even with the company's name. Also, I have no experience in implementing an application of the magnitude they would need. I created a functional demo for them last summer, but it was nowhere near complete or up to their (probable) enterprise standards. Their corporate structure/culture is very traditional, slow-moving, and more than a little frustrating. </p>

<p>The locations for each are a wash for me (the Midwest vs. DC metro area), and salaries should be as well. B hasn't given me a definite number, but it should be at least the same as A's, possibly up to a couple thousand higher. I really don't know what's more important. Should I take the job I'm more interested in and that I would like, but possibly get stuck with nowhere to advance, or stick it out at the brand name company in a job I might hate, but that could give me better future opportunities?</p>

2

<p>Great you have a choice. As an old person looking back, I vote for doing something you might enjoy for a bit, and if there is a time for poor work life balance, this might be it.</p>

3

<p>Agree. Follow your heart.</p>

4

<p>Me too. When you’re doing something you love, doors open, doors you have no way of knowing even exist right now.</p>

5

<p>You already know you don’t like company B’s working environment, why go back there. It won’t get better once you become a full time employee. 45-50 hours a week is considered very good, try 70+ hours. </p>

<p>My daughter’s friend interned at GS last summer, he didn’t really like it that much, but due to the prestige he accepted their job offer. Now 6 months later, he hates it so much that he wants to quit without a job.</p>

<p>You are lucky that you interned at Company B last summer, that’s what internship is suppose to be fore - to find out if you will like the company and the job.</p>

6

<p>Agreed to those postings. Got with your heart. You can change a job later after you had gained experiences and moving up at a different company. You got to get yourself started somewhere.</p>

7

<p>First off, you have not compared benefits. I am curious about that.</p>

<p>Secondly, I can not believe that company b would work you less than 45-50 hours per week. Do either companies pay overtime?</p>

<p>Of course you might think these questions silly, but if/when dissatisfaction with work hits they may seem more important.</p>

8

<p>I agree with all the others on follow your heart but in case you’re looking for some other reasons… Healthcare is expanding and given what’s happening, there is only going to be more demand for software. Defense goes through booms and busts and I can’t help but think it’s about to go down again. </p>

<p>Also, reputation isn’t always what it’s cracked up to be. I know a very talented accountant, choose Arther Anderson and then Enron happened. She was so good, several of her clients followed her to her next job. She had the choice between one of the remaining “big” firms or a more regional one. Again, she went with the more prestigious and moved (with clients) based on a promise of making partner. It didn’t happen and now she’s with someone else. During this entire time, she wasn’t happy with hours she put in but was very well paid. She is still paid well, but not as much as before but with a company that is a better fit in many ways.</p>

<p>Of course, you can find someone who went through a similar process and ended up fine. It’s just that you already have reasons to lean towards one company, and pedigree doesn’t always deliver.</p>

9

<p>I agree: go with the more interesting company. 40+ workweeks are pretty standard at software developers in my experience. To me, the absolute BEST thing about working for a software developer is the corporate culture of smart, involved people who are all into learning. Just like grad school, but with money! ;)</p>

<p>If the technical experience is good, you are unlikely to find it difficult to move to another company after a few years if Company A doesn’t provide advancement when you are ready. This is the time of your life to throw yourself into work and take chances.</p>

10

<p>Agree with everyone above. I also disagree with you that doing IT work in the healthcare industry would not be as positive for future employment is probably off by a lot. The healthcare industry has probably the biggest future growth of any other industry. If you’re able to streamline any aspect of it through technology, your in a very good position for future employment.</p>

<p>Finally, the defense industry is at the whim of the government and who knows what kind of contracts will be going out in the next 30 years? Healthcare is not quite so government controlled (even with the new laws).</p>

11

<p>I think you should go with the one your like.</p>

<p>And I’m not concerned about work-life balance. 50 hours a week is not that much for a young person without family responsibilities. </p>

<p>In terms of money, I suspect you would need a little more to live comfortably in the DC Metro area than in the Midwest, but yours is an industry that typically pays young people enough to live on, so I think you’re probably OK.</p>

12

<p>Just another note - working in the project management group, you will not be doing any programming. If IT is what you love, then PM is not what you want to do.</p>

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<p>There is a large healthcare EMR company (electronic medical records) that takes a lot of young folks right out of school and pays them pretty well. They are in the midwest and have a very “google-esque” environment (bus them to/from the work campus, have lots of team building games, pool tables, ping pong etc in the facility, a big cafeteria that is like college all over again) and is not far from a large well known state flagship U. One of my s’s looked at it, though it was not the direction he wanted to go in (it was programming, he is in engineering). They offered him a job (he declined) and said the offer would be on file and open anytime. Very flattering. What he heard from the employees at the time is that there is a nice incentive (long paid sabattical) at the end of like 5 yrs of service, but few if any make it to that point. Sounds like there is a high burnout and many don’t find the job to be a good fit, so there is a lot of turnover. That said, there are others who are very happy. </p>

<p>This same s turned down several very lucrative offers from big corporations in oil and gas because that is not what he wanted. He chose a smaller “green” alternative energy/ R&D company where he felt he could make a difference. It was a good fit and he really enjoyed it but the company became a victim of the economy a few years back. So he ended up at a big corporation, where he did well and would have stayed, even though he prefers a small company, but amour and a neat job opportunity are taking him across country today (literally). We shall see how the new life and opportunity works out, but in both the personal and vocational arena, he is following his heart, and it has felt right all the way along. Stay tuned…</p>

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<p>You are very lucky to have two offers in this economy.</p>

<p>I agree with the others on this thread to take the job that you are more interested in. For your first job out of school, upward mobility isn’t so important - you just want to go somewhere where you will have the opportunity to learn. It is also really important to have co-workers whom you like and enjoy working with.</p>

<p>As an aside, I suggest that you have an attorney review the non-compete agreement. It will cost some money, but you may be able to get the restrictions limited a bit.</p>

15

<p>OOh, good point, sacchi. I didnt see the non-compete part. Agree that getting that removed or modified would be a good idea. This healthcare IT company sounds very much like the one my s interviewed with. Do they happen to be in Wisconsin, OP?</p>

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<p>OP-congratualtions on your job offers…I know the midwest company you speak of (if it is in KC?) and you will have opportunities galore after working there…I personally work with 2 past employees(who are no longer with that company but now work with private hospital networks)… EMRs and healthcare IT/IS are hugely growing fields…I wouldn’t worry about future job possibilities (governemnt defense is another matter, and with the current state of our govt I would be concerned…but I have no personal knowledge of that area!)
BTW, there is huge turnover at that company and the hours expected are way over 55/weeks…just so you have a heads up going in!! On the other hand I hear their benefits are great and everyone is young/fun/often right out of college…</p>

17

<p>I don’t know if I would waste my money hiring a lawyer to negiotiate the non compete clause…this is a huge EMR company and they are not going to be willing to hire someone right out of college, provide the training and knowledge that only one or two companies in the world can offer (There are really only a handful of top EMR companies worldwide) and drop the non compete clause! I think they would pass you over and offer the job to the next new grad in line! From what I have seen the clause is not going to keep you out of work for that year after you leave them!</p>

18

<p>A note about non-compete, I don’t believe it would hold up most of the time, especially for an entry level position. I’ve had few firms trying to put that in my contract. My lawyer (heehee, my sister) told me not to worry about it because everyone has the right to work.</p>

19

<p>First of all, thanks everyone for your advice, these kind of opinions were exactly what I needed. I’ve been leaning towards A, but jym626 hit the nail on the head with who company A is and some of my other concerns about it. High burnout, high turnover, and what happens if I don’t fit there?</p>

<p>@atmc: I agree that health IT is fantastic, and that’s the subset of IT I’d like to be in. The contract I’d be on at B is actually in health IT somewhat–it’s an IT contract for a healthcare organization. </p>

<p>@Treetopleaf: Both companies would be salaried, so overtime is not paid extra. I’ve heard complaints from young people at B that they are also “expected” to work a certain amount of unpaid overtime. They didn’t say exactly how many hours it was. </p>

<p>As for benefits, the reason I didn’t compare is because B is being awful about getting me an offer in writing. Despite saying since August that they want me back (and me saying since October that I had another offer), I still have no salary or benefits details. It’s going through HR now and should get to me by next week, but dunno if that’s a red flag too. One thing I do know is that I’m interested in a graduate degree. B definitely provides tuition assistance, while this isn’t really an option at A. </p>

<p>@oldfort: Overall, I’m very interested in information management, so it’s not really programming itself that I’m looking for. I want the technical background/IT experience to use and understand things in that kind of role (which is where A’s experience could be more helpful), but ideally I’d like to get into a management-type role, which B has more of. </p>

<p>The non-compete apparently isn’t held up on A’s end as much, but other companies tend to honor it, especially if they’re A’s clients. A is a big player in EMR and health IT, and I’ve heard lots of negative things about them blackballing people that leave. </p>

<p>A last thing that might work in my favor with B is that the managers really want me return. They seem willing to let me rewrite my job description if I don’t like it, and listen to me if I have suggestions. I’m hoping I might be able to negotiate grad school or an LDP into my offer, but I’m not sure.</p>

20

<p>If you can get Company A to put in writing the offfer they made my s, that the offer of employment is open-ended should you ever want it, then option B may be worth a try, and if you don’t like it you will have option A in your back pocket.</p>