Choosing a youth orchestra?

College Majors Music Major
21

I know who the teacher GlassHarmonica is talking about, and professional musicians well out of school go to him for help, I know professional musicians from some pretty high level orchestras who work with him when they are preparing pieces the orchestra will play. I think the point is with auditions that if excerpts are being used, it certainly can’t hurt to get coaching. It does depend on the teacher as well, but for example, if you graduated from conservatory 10 years before, and are a bassoonist facing an audition with a major orchestra, and you know one of the main pieces will be the opening of “The Rite of Spring”, having someone work with you on the excerpt will be an added edge.

The way I put it to other people is getting through an audition , whether admissions to a conservatory/music school, or perhaps auditioning for a professional job, it comes down to ‘the edges’ you have. If you audition at a music school and have had exposure to teachers there, it can make getting a teacher to teach you easier (for schools where admission is predicated on studio admission), so summer programs or sample lessons may give an edge. If you are a wind or brass player having played a piece before might be an edge, or someone to work with you on excerpts might be another edge. I have had people tell me that kids get into music schools cold, without having met the teachers, and that is true, but I also know kids who have gotten into schools because they had prior exposure to the teacher and it made them willing to teach the kid…

The point is there is no ‘magic way’, and most of us with kids in music programs come to realize you do the best you can at each step, navigate as best as you can and hope it works out. I don’t think playing in a particular youth orchestra will necessarily help getting into a conservatory (unless, for example, said youth orchestra has master classes, and the kid in it gets to play for X, who teaches at school Y, where they are applying), but on the other hand, the good youth orchestras require auditions, to get in and seating auditions, and that is great practice, plus in playing in a youth orchestra, you learn ensemble playing which will help down the road. In the violin world, there are a lot of students, some really excellent players, who quite frankly stink at ensemble playing, because their focus was on individual solo rep. Music school admissions for violins don’t use excerpts much if at all (none of the schools my S looked at did), so these kids get into the best schools, but then are hit with the reality that most music is ensemble playing, and often struggle and have a hard time, so that YO experience can be huge down the road.

My S had a friend who thought that he had it made, went to the same pre college program, had one of the more highly regarded teachers, did all the ‘right’ things with competitions and such…and when he auditioned for conservatories and music schools, he failed to get into a lot of them, including the one he had been in the pre college program in…looking at him, a lot of people would assume he was a shoe in to get into the big programs, but he didn’t.

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I have a kid in a major conservatory that went to a wonderful youth orchestra program and though the youth orchestra did make a big difference in her playing it wasn’t a deciding factor with getting into the conservatory. However, the training a kid gets in a quality youth orchestra benefits them their entire career. It’s sort of like being raised with good manners. Conductors recognize students that had quality training and chair them higher. Sometimes the best player for an orchestra is not your rock star soloist but a kid who understands the group dynamic. Very few players make a living as soloists but many do as orchestra players and learning how to be a team member is often taught quite well in youth orchestras. In the long run, just like some favorite high school teacher can change a kid’s life, an inspiring youth orchestra director can be a huge influence on a musician’s ( amateur or professional ) life in later years.

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For anyone following, my daughter was accepted into my first choice for her (she might have preferred another group, but the logistics would have been too much for me). It’s a very good youth orchestra that plays real repertoire competently. It’s affiliated with the preparatory program of a conservatory. My daughter played in a wind ensemble there the year before last, and I was very happy with the “culture” of the place. The program attracts serious young musicians to push her and stretch her musically, and I would describe the overall environment as more supportive than cutthroat. I haven’t heard stories of nepotism, backbiting or pettiness there, which certainly sets it apart favorably.

All in all, I’m very happy. (Though I still wish there were an option in our back yard that was as good a fit!)

24

Tacking this on to my original post… YO went well last year, and summer orchestra is going well, too. Now D’s talking about possibly wanting to pick up a second YO during the school year – the nearby one that doesn’t play full length programs. It’s probably too much, given that she’ll already be balancing a tough academic magnet high school with a music fellowship and the one orchestra.

Current orchestra is about 75% 11th and 12th graders. Typically 40-50% of graduating seniors in this orchestra go on to major in music. The nearby (possible second) orchestra has age restrictions, so she’d be playing in an ensemble with 8th-10th graders. (Which feeds into a YO in which 20-30% of grads typically major in music.)

If she were to join a second orchestra, she would most likely not be able to go to hear as many professional orchestra concerts and operas as she did last year (not to mention losing a weekday evening of practice/reed making/homework time)… to me that sounds like a poor trade off when she’s already in a great youth orchestra. I don’t know whether I’m asking for advice, or just wanting to talk through my own thoughts (since D mentioned this idea to me in passing and is still gone and I’m not hearing from her much these days.) Anyway, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts about the merits of attending high-quality concerts versus additional butt-in-chair-reed-in-mouth time. And I’d be very happy to hear advocating on the devil’s behalf, since D isn’t here to argue her point. I’d also welcome general advice on reining in a kid who wants to do all the things.

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The question here with the second YO would be what does she get out of it? Does it further her playing, other than being another ensemble to play in? Is it something she really enjoys doing, or did someone want her to do it? To be honest, she may get more out of going to orchestra performances and opera and listening then she might in the ‘junior’ YO you describe. If the main orchestra she is in is mostly 11th and 12th graders, chances are the playing level there is much higher (time makes a difference), and it to me would be the challenge she needs to drive her forward.

The biggest reason I think is the time she would need to spend on this other program, even if it might have some benefit in playing time, is that high school is a different animal than lower school, if she is going to an academically challenging high school, she is going to face classes with a lot of homework and study time, which will press on her time to practice. Non strings are a bit different than strings, in that you can’t practice as long with a non string instrument (talking woodwinds, brass, etc), but you still are going to need more than a bit of practice time, and that time tends to increase as the student becomes more serious. It may only be a couple of hours a week, but that lower level youth orchestra’s benefits to me would be outweighed by the costs of it…and from the description of it, playing sections of major works, being much younger players, I doubt she would get much out of it. Plus your D is going to need down time, filling what looks like an intense schedule with things that may not do her much takes away from that, too.

26

Thanks @musicprnt … Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

I think the primary appeal of the closer, junior orchestra to my daughter is social. Her music-filled summer may have her forgetting that during the school year, orchestra is not her only (or even primary) social arena! I suppose there are worse things to have to argue with my teenager about than too many orchestras.

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@noviceatoller:
I understand the socialization thing, and about being around kids her age, but I think that I would be telling her that she may not understand the increasing load on her academically with high school, plus the extra practicing if she is serious about music. I know from personal experience with my son how it was when he was young in performing groups where most of the kids were older and it can be hard on the younger kid, but with your D being in school and doing other things, I doubt that will be a problem, plus kids in music tend to be a little less conscious about age IME, so she will be fine:)

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IMHO, you want your kid to be around those who are highly passionate about music. Naturally, those types of kids gravitate towards (and are pushed towards) orchestras that are led by passionate conductors and play very difficult pieces. You have to be with the best to become the best.