<p>My daughter appears to have narrowed down her choices for early decision to four schools: Brown, Carleton, Swarthmore, and Wesleyan. Leaving aside the issue of relative difficulty of admission, we're looking for additional insight that might help her choose among these. D is slightly younger than most of her classmates, and not someone whose social life has revolved around parties. While she can easily tolerate substance use by others, at present, that's not her thing. She is fun loving and has usually had little trouble making friends. She's politically aware, and very liberal leaning. On the other hand, she's wary of being surrounded by "hippies" or stifled by political correctness. I raise this issue, because until last night, I thought that she had settled on Wesleyan as her ED choice -- a decision that both my wife and I thought was sensible. Last night, she asked, "But how will others react if I want to watch South Park?" So -- that seems to be the litmus test for present. Thoughts would be greatly appreciated. (Unless it breaks the rules, I'm going to post a similar thread on the College Selection forum, to solicit responses from students.) Thanks.</p>
<p>See if you can find Live Journals on these schools. It might give her some insight into the campus culture on a true student to student level.</p>
<p>S attended Wes. He is liberal leaning but not politically active or PC. The year he applied was the year the NYT ran an article about the "clothing optional" dorm, but he said he'd never seen students going around without clothes. Chalkings were banned by the time he arrived on campus, though we saw some when we visited earlier.
He used to watch South Park at home, but did not watch much TV in college, but not because of peer pressure. In general, he did not feel peer pressure to conform one way or another. As a result of discussions of drinking on CC recently, we asked him about his experiences. He'd witnessed some episodes of drunkenness among people he knew--not many over the course of 4 years--but nobody had fallen down drunk or gotten sick. This says more about him than about the extent of drinking at Wes, but it also suggests that students CAN do their own thing. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>A different issue arising from your post is why your D wants to do ED at all? ED is for someone who is CERTAIN of the ONE school he or she wants to attend above all others. That doesn't seem to fit your D at all. </p>
<p>I realize that there is a tendency to want the perceived "admission boost" from ED. But that is a secondary question at the moment. Questions to be answered now: is financial aid important to your family? would merit aid be a factor in the choice of school should she be offered any? have you considered the degree to which some of us have watched our own kids, and kids here on cc, change their view of which school/type of school they want between October and April of Senior year?</p>
<p>These are cautionary questions because there are many cautionary tales about the use of ED. imho, it is overused and my own S was one who should not have used it -hence the depth of my thoughts about it.</p>
<p>If you haven't, search threads about ED pros and cons; look at some of carolyn's recent posts about her own D who went - in the course of several weeks - from certainty about here one absolute favorite ED school to a different selection altogether.</p>
<p>Now that my soapbox presentation is finished, if your D is to make and ED choice, we should hear more about her criteria as well as answers to qx I raised before chiming in with opinions.</p>
<p>btw, I love the South Park test ;).</p>
<p>er222,
can your daughter do an overnight (if offered) at Wes before she commits to ED?</p>
<p>My Wes grad D thinks South Park is hysterical. I don't always go along with it, but it specializes in puncturing bs, and that's what she and her friends like about it (all poltically liberal, and quite able to question party lines.)</p>
<p>RE: the South Park test</p>
<p>I think it's important to note that these colleges are full of teenagers, who dress like teenagers and enjoy the irreverant things that teenagers enjoy, which presumably would include South Park. In fact, I would guess that South Park is quite popular.</p>
<p>Just because a college is noted for being "intellectual" or "liberal" doesn't mean that students walk around in tweed smoking jackets and turtlenecks, discussing weighty philosophical issues 24/7.</p>
<p>Carleton describes its culture as a place where students study hard - there is definitely no grade inflation - yet people may not take themselves as seriously as they might at other colleges. Example: at ceremonies opening and closing the academic year, students sit in the balcony and blow bubbles onto the faculty marching below. Whether Carleton or any of these other colleges would pass a South Park test, who knows? </p>
<p>Short of a visit, I think the best way to investigate is to correspond with current students at these colleges. Just about every college is liberal leaning; the trick is to avoid a campus whose political correctness becomes oppressive, both in and out of the classroom. In my opinion, from anecdotal evidence mentioned to me, and reinforced by the handbooks, I believe one of the colleges you mentioned falls into the oppressive category. I will leave it up to you to figure out which one. Anyway, it is only my opinion and I could be dead wrong.</p>
<p>For what it's worth - 2nd edition</p>
<p>As others have said, prior to an ED application, I would hope that your D has spent several days on each campus and soaked in the collective culture and the personalities and drive of the students in addition to the academic structure. My extremely liberal, very independent, non-conforming D considered the schools you mentioned and others of the same genre. She found Carleton more to her liking - seemingly less cutthroat, perhaps more accepting and encouraging of her interests. Could be the midwest influence combined with a blue state. I'll ask D if MN and Carleton pass your South Park test. Consider, too, the academic structures. Students at Carleton are taught a semester course in 10 weeks, and are limited to 3 courses a term due to the demands of that system. The result is 9 semester courses per year.</p>
<p>I can speak up for Brown. </p>
<p>Irreverent humor is very popular among all college kids and Brown is no exception. Brown is a very extroverted, ready-to-have-fun kind of place. At schools where people do not take themselves too seriously, "PC" should never trump a good laugh; when I was at Brown it never did.</p>
<p>BTW I disagree that ED is for "one true love" only. I hesitate to have any kid narrow their focus to one "true love" school-- especially a very selective school-- just because the odds can be slim despite ED and you don't want everything else to be a let down from the dream.</p>
<p>I think it is more pragmatic to approach colleges like arranged marriages rather than blind dates leading to storybook romance. </p>
<p>There are MANY schools that can be a great fit and a great experience, and making the most of college is a two-way street between institution and student. (After all, how much can you REALLY know about a school you may have visited for 3 hours in the summer?!?! This is like getting married after the first date!) </p>
<p>If you'd be absolutely elated to attend the school, ED is appropriate, even if there are two or three others you'd be equally elated to attend.</p>
<p>My D also had three or four "top contenders." Two stuck out slightly. She tried one ED (no) and one ED2 (yes.) I think she would have been ecstatic at any of the four. The ED2 school was neck & neck with another but she (wisely) said-- "I'd be happy at either, I hate the suspense; I should just pick one." I am sure ED made a difference, as the school is very selective and she was a 'median' candidate. She could not be happier with her choice.</p>
<p>Finally, if ED is a coin you get one of, I'd advise: don't spend it on a "dream school" that is totally unrealistic. Spend it at a realistic reach where ED could make the difference.</p>
<p>South Park would be OK at any of these schools. It is interesting how these students will have the most stimulating intellectual late night dorm room conversations and debates and then get into their favorite irreverant movies and shows which are the same ones most college age kids enjoy. That what makes these students so interesting and fun. They are half adult and half little kids sometimes .</p>
<p>My daughter is a freshman at Swarthmore who absolutely loves it, and she sounds quite similar to your daughter. She is the most intensely intellectual person I know, yet she is a "Survivor" junkie! I asked her if she had found anybody willing to watch it with her, and she said "No, because at that time my dorm's lounge is filled up with people watching "The O.C."! Actually, it turns out that she has meetings of two different activities at that time, and she already has to choose between those two, so she is happy to watch when she gets home.
I would agree that if you peruse the live journal communties of the schools, you can get an idea of the sense of humor at a place, as well as the kinds of things the kids get excited about--including TV shows! Swarthmore has a link to a freshman's live journal on their admissions page.</p>
<p>I agree that it doesn't sound at all like your D is ready to apply ED anywhere. ED is for the student who has a clear first choice who won't change his/her mind. EA is for the slightly less committed student. A student who has 4 choices and is really using South Park as the deciding factor about which should be her ED choice doesn't seem ready to commit to a school yet for the next 4 years. It sounds like RD may be a better choice since all of these schools have an ED but not EA option.</p>
<p>They killed Kenny....</p>
<p>I have to agree with Jmmom. If your daughter has four schools that she could potentially apply ED to and no clear gut feeling that one of the four is "the one" than ED may not be a good idea.</p>
<p>As Jmmom noted, in August my daughter was absolutely convinced that she'd found her ED school, but then some "south park" like doubts crept in. She realized that she wasn't quite ready to let go of the other schools she also loved. She's very happy (and relieved) with her decision not to apply ED. Sure, it may mean she's lessened her chances of getting into that particular school, but she has a well-chosen list of schools and can see herself happy at ALL of them. </p>
<p>I honestly think if you have to ask for opinions about the differences between schools here in order to help your daughter make a decision, that ED may not be the right path. Your daughter may not be ready to absolutely commit and give up other options, south park or not. :)</p>
<p>My W is not exactly young and she likes South Park. So much for the South Park test.</p>
<p>I think SBmom said it best "After all, how much can you REALLY know about a school you may have visited for 3 hours in the summer?!?! This is like getting married after the first date!." Campus cultures are often very different than they appear to be on the surface. Before making a final decision, it is really worth taking some time to learn as much as possible.</p>