Choosing between Swarthmore and UChicago?

<p>Hi.
I love being able to choose between these weird, nerdy schools!
When faced with this decision, which one do most cross-admits choose, and why? What are some advantages and disadvantages to both (I don't know what I want to do with my life yet, so I can't really make a decision based on specific programs)?
Swat is giving me lovely financial aid. Haven't heard from Chicago about aid yet.
Haven't visited either, but will do so in April.</p>

<p>I don't know which one most cross-admits choose, but it definitely doesn't lean too much either way. There are the obvious differences of size and urban vs. suburban location, but I assume that if either of those was an overwhelming factor then you wouldn't have applied to both of these schools. I think all you can really do at this point is visit. Either school will give you a great education, so it's really just a matter of the atmosphere that you feel more comfortable with. To me, Swat students seemed more friendly and more able to laugh at themselves, while still maintaining a high degree of intensity. Chicago people just didn't seem very happy. Other people whose judgment I respect have had the opposite impressions, though, so you'll have to make up your own mind.</p>

<p>Some data points:</p>

<p>Per student endowment (2004)</p>

<p>Swarthmore: $789,735
U Chicago: $293,211</p>

<p>The Role of the Teaching Assistant</p>

<p><a href="http://teaching.uchicago.edu/tutorial/tas.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://teaching.uchicago.edu/tutorial/tas.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Although the specific terminology varies from department to department, teaching assistants are those individuals who conduct sessions that meet in addition to lecture presentations by faculty members. These sessions most commonly serve as an aid to large lecture classes, and the primary purpose of the sessions is to amplify and clarify the concepts covered in the lectures-often through problem solving and discussion. Teaching assistants are in a unique position because they often deal with only a subset of the members in a class and, in some senses, must function not only in an instructional role but also as a mediator between the undergraduates and the professor."</p>

<p>Essay on Teaching Large Classes</p>

<p><a href="http://teaching.uchicago.edu/pod/gillespie.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://teaching.uchicago.edu/pod/gillespie.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"It is important to appear approachable in large classes. Build rapport with your students, and recognize the individuality of each student. Move among them when talking. Increase student access to you by getting to class early to listen to their questions, comments, or complaints. Begin by inviting students to call out something they know or recall about a topic. Display the responses as an introduction to the day's activities. Address some of the anonymity students feel in large classes. Try to learn some names, and call on those you know by name. Learn something about as many students as possible. Have your students complete information cards about themselves--career goals, hometown, special skills or interests, expectations for the course, or previous experience with course content. Ask for a few volunteers each day to help with demonstrations and activities and through this process learn some student names. Employ seating charts, take pictures of small groups of students in your classes, or make a videotape containing a brief auto-biographical sketch of each student."</p>

<hr>

<p>IMO, there are legitimate reasons to choose UChicago over Swarthmore:</p>

<p>a) If you are sure you want to study in a niche field that Swarthmore doesn't offer.</p>

<p>b) If you have already completed advanced college work in your field and know that you will require numerous graduate courses to provide sufficient challenge. [Note: very few Swatties feel that they are insufficiently challenged academically.]</p>

<p>c) If you want an urban college environment.</p>

<p>d) You look forward to a core curriculum.</p>

<p>Otherwise, do Swarthmore for undergrad and UChicago for grad school: the best of both worlds.</p>

<hr>

<p>PS: You'll know right away which is right for you when you visit. Do overnights. Sit in on a freshman class in something that interests you.</p>

<p>I'm in the same situation as obsessivecompuls, although I'm not sure the aid I'm getting from Swarthmore is 'lovely.'</p>

<p>I'm visiting Swarthmore on April 5-6 and Chicago probably on April 12-13, so hopefully that will make my decision easier.</p>

<p>Seriously. If you guys visit both schools, I think it will be instantly apparent which is right for you. They are really completely different environments.</p>

<p>When I was at Discovery Weekend at Swarthmore a student asked me what other schools I was considering. When I replied University of Chicago, she said, "Wow that place is even more depressing than here."</p>

<p>My daughter applied to both Swarthmore and UChicago, although she withdrew her application to UChicago after getting in ED to Swarthmore. When she did her overnight at Swarthmore, and told other students there she had also applied to UC, about 3/4 of them had too! A lot of them said they had a tough time deciding between the two...so your situation is shared by many students who ended up at Swarthmore. (and maybe also at UC, we don't know).</p>

<p>How amusing! I was just asking my friend whether I should choose U Chicago over Swarthmore if I get into Swarthmore. What a coinkidink =) Factors to look at: Campus, location, and size. Unfortunately, I can't really judge 2 of the 3 factors my friends tell me about as I am an international candidate. Any more specific advice? I'm really looking for a quirky student body, and a blend of creative with the intellectual. Academics with a twist.</p>

<p>"quirky student body, and a blend of creative with the intellectual. Academics with a twist"</p>

<p>You'll find it in both places. The big differences in my opinion are Chicago's Core Curriculum (some people like it, some hate the very idea of it) and location (downtown Chicago vs. arboretum in the suburbs of Philadelphia).</p>

<p>I'll leave UChicago to others. I can tell you a little bit I've seen from three years of a daughter at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>a) I don't believe there is a college on earth where there is more respect and camaraderie between the students and the faculty. Students are comfortable not only interacting with professors, but joking with them -- simultaneously recognizing the "serious" academics and the shared realization not to take the academic jargon too seriously. I wish I could share specific examples, but the place is too small and my daughter would kill me. You see it in the way the professors talk about their students and their teaching at Swarthmore. You see it in the way students question candidates for teaching positions and deans. The way professors share honest, no BS advice -- on research, on writing grants, on working the system. On how even a sophmore can line up three recommendation for a summer program from professors who actually know them.</p>

<p>b) I am struck by the sophistication of the ideas in the classroom at Swarthmore. It is definitely not a memorize and regurgitate facts kind of place. My daughter has occasionally shared essay or exam prompts with me. As a 50 year old adult, I find the questions fascinatingly open-ended and thought provoking. There is no way to graduate from Swarthmore without getting being challenged to think.</p>

<p>c) I am struck by the amount of one-on-one learning. The number of papers that involve a professor conference on the initial outline, followed by a professor conference on the rough draft, before turning in a final paper. It is hideously expensive to teach this way, but there is no better way in the world to learn to write.</p>

<p>d) I am amazed by the degree of peer learning. The number of physics study groups. The number of students who get their papers peer reviewed by the Writing Associates. The number of student presentations in the classroom. The way students recommend courses to each other, take courses together, and actually talk about their courses. I had my daughter and her roommate doing a comedy routine about one of their classes in the back seat of the car coming home from airport.</p>

<p>e) I have been struck by how effectively older Swat students share advice with freshmen, just hanging around the dorm -- and how, in turn those students share with "their freshmen" when they are sophmores and juniors.</p>

<p>f) I am stunned by the emphasis throughout the entire college on global issues, diversity, understanding different cultures, etc. I can't think of a better preparation for life in the 21st century.</p>

<p>g) I cannot believe how beautiful the place is.</p>

<p>I second ID's post #10 (my daughter is a junior as well).</p>

<p>wow interesteddad, i wish i could have used some of your views in my Why Swarthmore essay ;) but the campus IS completely Zen (I used to live nearby) and I kinda like the small-school feel, especially since I can be close to my professors. What's it like living in Chicago though? I've never visited.</p>