Choosing Full Ride Vs. Selective College?

Parents Forum
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<p>yes</p>

<p>What might be a fun exercise is to have us post as other people. I feel I can predict what blossom, QM, Miami, wis, and so on, could say to this question, which is raised yearly. I’m not minimizing the seriousness of the question. I have friends whose son could have gone for free to engineering at UF Honors, or Georgia Tech for $15,000. What is the cut-off point for New College vs Emory? Is there a particular program one’s child is interested in? MAY variables.</p>

<p>What was easy for me was that my son wanted a school strong in CS. In 1 evening, jr year, we didn’t come up with the best list, which would have included Mudd, RPI, etc. Son called 2 math teachers for advice, so CMU made the list. Almost all his rejections came from well-rounded colleges. The tech schools seemed to like him. He could have gone to UMiami in FL for free, as merit awards based on stats, not just the state schools. </p>

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<p>Bookworm, I hope I’m consistent but not dogmatic. I recently had a colleague ask me for advice about his daughter. She’s a solid but unspectacular student; eligible for a lot of merit aid at a decent private college close to home and doesn’t want to consider either the state flagship or the close by satellite campus. He and his wife have taken the D on the “grand tour” over the summer, including a bunch of schools where she clearly can’t get accepted (oh well, never hurts to try), a bunch of schools which he says they can’t afford (I believe him) and a few “wild card” schools where the D is likely to get admitted but is likely on the cusp for the merit aid which would make the college affordable.</p>

<p>Since he asked- I encouraged him to encourage his D to take the SAT’s again (you never know) in the hopes of getting off the “bubble” for merit aid, but that in case that didn’t happen, the close by merit school seemed like a fantastic opportunity.</p>

<p>So even Blossom- the big believer in stretching for one’s kids education- thinks that sometimes there is a no-brainer option staring you in the face. The D is lovely but singularly unambitious right now at the age of 17. A small college might light a fire underneath her- great outcome. No debt means lots of options after graduating. Struggling to find an out of state public U which would be essentially her own flagship (too big she says) but more expensive to travel to… what’s the point in that? Going to another state’s directional state U just for the sake of being in Illinois or Oklahoma instead of the satellite campus of her own state which is affordable… more travel costs, more expensive.</p>

<p>So on balance, this seems like an easy case. Write your heart out in the essay about “Why college X which is close to home and gives great merit aid to kids like me” and don’t look back.</p>

<p>At least that’s my opinion. If this kid were chewing up the scenery academically and wanted to be a nuclear physicist and had terrific stats and fire in the belly I’d be thinking up 30 colleges which could be affordable and further away from home than the local merit option. </p>

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<p>Yep, exactly what I would have predicted. "No size fits all.’ You look at the individual asking the question, think about the child’s work habits and motivation, their thoughts of a major, the parents’ finances, the comfort of everyone with going far from home, etc. My point==you are a poster that “listens” (reads carefully?) and gives a unique response to each query.</p>

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<p>Would a more reasonable hypothetical be between Caltech / Harvey Mudd versus the much lower cost SD Mines / NM Tech, since they are all small engineering-focused schools?</p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus:</p>

<p>You could toss them in there as well, but they would be a middle ground, as, while they have relatively cheap OOS tuition, I don’t believe they offer big merit money (while UA offers full-tuition+ to NMF, which the OP indicates they’ll get). NMTech does have some money for NMF/NMSF, though, and could be worth looking in to for someone who wants a smaller tech school.</p>

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<p>PurpleTitan: I don’t know whether it’s an easy decision, really. For a kid who’s gifted and science-focused, nothing’s better than the intensity of Harvey Mudd or CalTech. It all depends on whether the family’s got the money and whether they value education to that point. It’s a hefty sumn. But if I had it, I’d pay it for my gifted kid who’s science-focused. It’d also depend on the kid’s personality - I’m thinking a kid who’d fit in at CalTech may be a bit socially isolated at ASU, Barrett or not. I think Barrett is a terrific option, but if that’s the instance, I really would consider my kid’s personality, her/his drive, etc. as well as what sacrifices it’d entail. I could sacrifice eating out, going to the movies, keeping the old car, for my kid, but I couldn’t make everyone starve and freeze for it.
(I seem to recall that of the two students who posted regularly and let us follow their stories last year, and seemed rather focused on Honors College to save money while having parents who could pay but truly hesitated about costs, both ended up accepting the Honors College offer… then turned it down because both parents - both in industry at a high level- consulted with partners/colleagues, and the kids ended up at the “prestigious” school despite the costs. This, to me, “says” something too, although not about the academic quality of the two institutions involved, which were not “tech” schools.)</p>

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<p>Yes I would pay my annual household income for CalTech over AZ but I would have been saving for 18 years so it would be less of a big deal, says the woman who had the full tuition scholarship. A science student wanting a PhD will have grad school fully funded in all likelihood, so no point in saving it up for that.</p>

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<p>Our 529 enables DS to attend any school that accepts him. He has the goods to be an attractive candidate to even the most selective schools (and attends a very selective high school). Because his HS requires each student to apply to one of their state schools, he has applied and been accepted to ASU and is working on his Barrett app. He will make his choice based on the program he likes best, and it might very well be a low- to no-cost program. We are not in the camp that equates college with trade school, so ROI does not figure into our or his equation.</p>

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<p>This is why @ucbalumnus’s suggesstion of NMTech is good. Not free-tuition, but cheaper than Mudd/CalTech and also small and tech-focused. Not nearly as selective of course, but they also send a relatively high percentage of kids on to get sciene&engineering PhD’s.</p>

<p>@LBowie:

  1. Not every kid looking at CalTech/Mudd is looking to get a science PhD.
  2. 200K is a chunk of money regardless. Not being in a job with tenure, that type of money may matter to my family’s future financial security.</p>

<p>BTW, if this was a kid interested in humanities/finance, I think I’d bite the bullet and pay for Stanford/Chicago over UA.</p>

<p>Career goals and the type of kid matters.</p>

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<p>Though in the case of that humanities kid, I’d tell them to try to get one of those big scholarships at Denison/Richmond/Bard/Emory. Possibly the finance kid as well.</p>

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<p>With my oldest, I anticipate this decision (full ride public vs. selective) in a couple of years. A couple of years behind him will be my D. If I was faced with this decision right now, what I would do is plan to give to both the economic equivalent of four years of annual UG tuition and two years of graduate school at the local public university (which happens to be my alma mater as well as my wife’s). That means currently about $65k total outlay per child. </p>

<p>How they spend it is going to be primarily their personal choice (as long as cost/benefit/value of the degree/major/school makes sense, otherwise I can veto). If they earn scholarships or receive other aid that means they don’t need the full amount for school, they get cash for a down payment on a home when they graduate, oldest can apply the amount to medical school, law school, etc.</p>

<p>While they are pursuing school full-time, they will always be welcome to live in my home and eat my groceries. I will provide a reasonable vehicle for transportation, but they have to work and earn enough money to keep it on the road.</p>

<p>This total amount per child represents roughly half my annual income and roughly 10% of my net worth. It will mean some sacrifice, but it will be one I can reasonably afford without jeopardizing my own financial health and retirement.</p>

<p>In the end, I want my kids to feel like this is their decision, and something they are personally invested in. You better believe that I will insist on being their closest personal advisor, their biggest advocate and cheerleader, etc. But I want them to take charge of their own future, because it is their future and not mine. They need to own it. I know that is a lot to put on some 17 or 18 year old kid. But is there really any other way around it? I personally wouldn’t want to invest hundreds of thousands of $ in a kid that isn’t ready to own the decision themselves. </p>

<p>I don’t mean to make this sound like I don’t perceive the value of a degree from some of these institutions, the doors it can open, being around people who challenge you, etc. Secretly, I personally want to see both my kids go a prestigious LAC or other highly selective college, if it is a good fit and their sights are set on it. But just like any investment, the price always matters. </p>

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<p>Article in today’s WSJ, 4th section, that talks about taking money/borrowing money from a 401K and things to consider based on age and use. Mentioning it here because of prior discussion on borrowing from a 401K to finance college tuition. </p>

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<p>@PurpleTitan - I can’t just answer yes or no to that question. Would I be willing to? Yes, if possible. Currently, I could not afford to spend my yearly salary on a college education per year for my oldest. I would pay considerably more to send her to CalTech/Harvey Mudd (assuming she wanted to go) than I would to send her to Arizona, but currently my yearly salary would be too much. In our own college search process, some schools fell off the list because they did not provide very good financial aid as a general rule. Fortunately, the ones she was most interested in do provide very good financial aid for those in our income range. I would not saddle either of my kids or my wife and me with huge debt though to go to any college. Under $20,000 in debt for a student by the time they graduate if it’s a great school and they choose a major that will likely bring employment? Yeah, that seems worth it to me.</p>

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<p>Interesting hear the stories - buyers’ remorse or not; reasons for less selective colleges for student to have at least a little fun that was missed in HS. Decisions about money. How much in synch student is with parents (or parents are with each other).</p>

<p>Both my kids seem to be doing well where planted. Good match on school size and program opportunities. Both had the best scholarships at their chosen school. We like their chosen in-state schools a lot. We as parents are not financially stressed about college - we planned and are living within budget. We have seen a lot of schools between our attending, siblings or their kids attending, working for universities, reading US News and World Report cover to cover for years.</p>

<p>The situation that seems the most regrettable is when a student goes to a reach, is paying a lot, and is emotionally/academically stretched. Student is miserable and family realizes this is not the ‘dream’.</p>

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<p>Many regrettable situations. A bright kid goes to a school where he gets lots of $, is bored, frustrated with his/her peer group, and drifts away from academics. </p>

<p>This happened to a boy I knew. He could still get all A’s but got heavily into drug abuse. </p>

<p>My point is, we don’t have the crystal boy. Some kids love the challenges and peers of a reach school, others don’t. It is best when we look at our children realistically and put their needs and style above our bragging rights. </p>

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<p>Right, because smart kids only get into drugs when they are at “lesser” schools…</p>

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<p>Sally, you missed my point. I was trying to say there are many scenarios. I gave one example of how things go wrong. SOSconcern gave another. I think all of us with kids could offer scenarios. We just don’t know enough about “fit”. Some people are fortunate to have children who flourish wherever they r planted. </p>

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<p>One thing to keep in mind is that a school like 'Zona (and probably CU as well) would have a higher-than-average proportion of spoiled rich kids looking to drink and party rather than study (even compared to many other state schools). Also, UA doesn’t seem to devote much resources to honors (but ASU seems to devote more to Barrett, though ASU is more of a commuter school). However, if you are NMS (which I assume if you say UA is full-ride), NMTech and UT-Dallas do not have these problems. There are other complaints about them, but they may not matter for a kid considering CalTech/Mudd. BTW, a large proportion of the kids at UA/ASU/NMTech will drop out after freshman year. Blame the public school systems in AZ & NM as well as lenient entrance policies at those schools for that.</p>

<p>I would read StudentReviews .com on all these schools. Keep in mind that the most disgruntled students would be the ones posting, but you can get a sense for each school because the students tend to complain about the same things at each school but they vary a lot across schools. Something complained about greatly at CalTech is never complained about at Mudd. Something complained about a lot at Mudd is never complained about at 'Zona, and vice versa, etc.</p>

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<p>Per CU, as a local I used to have the view that most oos student would be spoiled/rich. Interestingly DD said that many of her oos classmates were serious students, interested in putting their parent’s steep tuition payments to good use and getting out of time. </p>

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<p>Resources are used for a number of UA honors programs. A benefit of honors at UA is getting priority with registration. Not sure what @prupletitan is looking for in honors program. My daughter is in two very selective activities at UA, one being an honors program. Was well-prepared from private HS for academic level and amount of homework. UA also had transition time with first quizzes and tests that were ‘easier’.</p>

<p>A large university may require a little more info and family involvement (we found that, as older child went to a smaller university). A large university can offer many pluses; a small private school if properly selected and a good match for the student and their personality can be a real winner too. And there is everything in-between.</p>

<p>Good luck with the selection process.</p>