<p>for students interested in math, physics, CS, and econ?</p>
<p>What are the compelling non-academic reasons? Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts!</p>
<p>From what I've gathered...
Caltech = more competitive, more...OMG INTENSE DIE DIE WORK. Less "play" than MIT.</p>
<p>Stanford = in California (plus or minus - I really don't like North California very much at all), everyone rides bikes, everything is kind of...laid back? It's less "nerdy" on a grand scale than MIT, although you'll definitely find a niche wherever you go. </p>
<p>MIT = the best? Mostly I just think that Caltech and MIT are REALLY different, and in my opinion, it would be really hard to love both. Stanford is also different, of course, but in such a way that it's not hard to love both it and MIT or Caltech.</p>
<p>This is a really uninformed post, so anyone with actual knowledge is welcome to correct/add to anything I've said.</p>
<p>Caltech is a cool place. A lot quieter than MIT (likely due to its location). California = warm beaches, though. I believe the workloads at Caltech and MIT are comparable (from what I can tell). At both schools, your workload is really what you make of it. I think the exception is at Caltech, you can't declare a business major after your first year and take it easy for the next three. :P. More required classes at Caltech, meaning you will have more education in common with your peers, which I can see developing stronger underclassmen relationships. Though this is at the cost of some freedom with the classes you take. Caltech is smaller, so I expect you would get more familiar with all the students in your class. MIT is larger, which I've discovered means that no matter who you are, there are people like you here. I do not know if this is the case at Caltech, but I know there are cool people there for sure.</p>
<p>I do not know much about Stanford, save it to say, they're a lot more laid back. From what I hear of my Stanfordian friends (though we rarely speak now), they don't have as much work as Caltech and MIT students. Freshmen live in freshmen dorms (which I think is a horrible concept)... very close to the beach though. Stanford campus is like a freaking castle... but not much in the immediate surroundings. You can always drive up to SF during a break though.</p>
<p>Anyone feel free to correct me if I've gotten anything wrong.</p>
<p>Caltech's exams are not proctored. They treat students quite nice and with trust.</p>
<p>If you want an urban campus, MIT is the place to go of those three -- it's a quick walk over the bridge to Boston. Public transportation is pretty good in Boston, so students are able to explore the city relatively cheaply and easily.</p>
<p>I love that students are able to explore MIT's dorms and choose one that best fits their preferences and personalities. (I believe Caltech's system is similar.) That seems to me to be a better system for making people happy than randomly assigning students to dorm rooms -- you get to pick dormmates and roommates who get you psyched, and those people naturally end up being your best support system.</p>
<p>There are, furthermore, a very wide variety of living groups, and everybody tends to find one that they love. There are eleven dorms, four cultural houses, twenty-six fraternities, five sororities, and five independent living groups.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Caltech = more competitive, more...OMG INTENSE DIE DIE WORK. Less "play" than MIT.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Very backwards -- sorry to have to correct it a little harshly, though thanks for saying that the opinion is uninformed. Caltech is the most collaborative and least competitive of the top universities. At Caltech, it's unheard of for someone to refuse to help a peer even in a tiny class where that may change the curve a lot, and people virtually never talk about grades or class standing.</p>
<p>I'm not a big MIT expert, but I have spent enough time at MIT to say that there is a lot more talk at MIT about how overworked one is and a lot more general academic stress. The tests are more frequent, and they are often timed and proctored. Being hosed is a general part of the culture, and there is no equivalent at Caltech.</p>
<p>MIT is an absolutely superb place, and it is a credit to the students that they work so hard. But to say Caltech is more competitive is wrong. </p>
<p>What is true is that there are more "fun non-sciency" types at MIT. More political wonks or Sloanies or theater or art types who also like science a lot. That's a big plus for MIT. </p>
<p>Don't know much about Stanford undergrad life, though what's been said so far seems right.</p>
<p>^ Ohh, wow, big misconception I had, then. Huh, it's weird, because I mostly based it off of Caltech's guidebooks they sent out. Thanks for clearing it up, though!</p>
<p>For the record, MIT is also an incredibly collaborative place. People are stressed, but they would never use that as an excuse not to help a friend with a pset question. (The word "competitive" is thrown around a lot when people talk about elite schools. But where is there an elite school where students actually are competitive? Certainly not at places where students have to work hard -- you can't be competitive unless the subject matter and grading schemes are easy.)</p>
<p>I think it's interesting to note that there's a lot of talk at MIT about being overworked and hosed. Whether students at MIT are actually more overworked than students at Caltech is perhaps debatable. But as Ben says, it's part of the culture to publicly bemoan the amount of work one has to do.</p>
<p>Yes, we would agree there. I think in practice (ex ante) similar students work similar amounts at these schools. It's just that at MIT stressing about it publicly is more common.</p>
<p>I think other aspects of the culture differ a lot, but the actual academic workload shouldn't be the deciding factor (unless you don't like math and physics and couldn't take the Caltech core). As everyone here has probably gotten tired of hearing, visit all the places you are seriously considering and see which one feels culturally a fit to you.</p>
<p>Northern Californian beaches warm? They are more likely to be windy or foggy =).
Don't get me wrong, I love where I live. It's beautiful here.
I too have the decision between Stanford and MIT. Why am I picking MIT? I want to get away from home. I love the culture. I'm willing to work that hard (yes, Stanford supposedly has less work). I want to be different from my parents (who both went there). I had more fun visiting MIT than I did Stanford. Part of this may be that I'd been to Stanford many times before, and it wasn't new and exciting.
You can get a lot of information from current students, asking them which is better/why, but remember, they're biased. The only way you can truly know is by visiting them.
In terms of the subject matter you wish to study, I wouldn't worry. They're all three amazing schools.</p>
<p>I made the same choice last year. I picked MIT. Among other things, stuff like hacking, MITSFS, and the residential system really jumped out at me. And when I visited, Stanford admins made a bad impression on me.</p>
<p>bump (10 char)</p>
<p>Our son is trying to make this comparison too so it is very much on my mind.
I think the main non-academic factors are location and campus culture.
On campus culture, Stanford seems different in that a lot of people have the feeling that it's not cool to work hard. The Stanford folks who told us this think it is a good thing; my son didn't but I might have when I was his age. :)
And of course Caltech and MIT have a stronger nerd/geek culture and no big-time sports; some people like having strong school teams, others don't value that or even dislike it. As this suggests I see Caltech and MIT are the more similar of the three. Caltech is much smaller (about 1/4 the nunber of undergrads); this has all sorts of implications that we are still trying to sort out.</p>
<p>There are hardly any political wonks--I met one guy who majored in Poli Sci. when I was there.</p>
<p>There are more business types, although they will rarely major in Management except as a double major. When I was there (before the dot com bust), there was a general undercurrent that people wanted to found their own business someday. </p>
<p>BTW, you are probably better off staying away from the frats (if you are a guy.) If a woman tells you how great the frats are, she probably has no idea what she is talking about. If you are a girl, the sororities are fine and probably are supportive.</p>
<p>collegealum314,
Where are there no political wonks?</p>
<p>I will add that MIT is a more traditional choice than CalTech. I think in high school CalTech students and MIT students look pretty similar, but CalTech students in college exhibit more of a pure love of math and science. There is a lot of peer pressure to do something other than math and science (engineering, business, med school) for your real career. Of course, you can approach you career however you want, but at MIT most of your peers won't be just learning for the sake of learning anymore.</p>
<p>well, there are probably zero wonks at CalTech and maybe four or five out of 4000 undergrads at MIT.</p>
<p>Your chances of meeting one at either place are close to zero.</p>
<p>I'll add the obvious: the average MIT or CalTech student will be much smarter than your average Stanford student...</p>
<p>And I'll disagree with the above statement. I think student quality is reasonably level across schools.</p>
<p>Also, I know 2 people majoring in poli sci and am pretty sure I know at least 3-4 more, and I hang out with a more math/science group of people. So the population of poli sci majors is small, but not as small as mentioned above.</p>
<p>Finally, I'm probably a pure science major, and there is zero pressure on me to go into law, medicine, finance, engineering, etc. The option is always there, but I'm never pushed towards it.</p>
<p>"And I'll disagree with the above statement. I think student quality is reasonably level across schools."</p>
<p>For grad school yes, undergrad no. I don't know what the stat exactly is, but basically every CalTech undergrad was the top student in their high school. MIT is not far behind. Stanford is not like that...they don't really even want that.</p>