<p>There's a very good chance that our D will have to choose between at least 2 of the 3 women's colleges, not to mention perhaps other great schools (HC, Cornell, BU). All places where she can get pre-vet/med support. She's leaning towards Smith, and has rec'd the "likely" letter and subsequent followup from Wellesley. Financial award will play in the decision, but, will not be the driving force. She likes all three women's colleges for different reasons; clearly NoHo has its attraction above the others. Tho the Wellesley letter has finally caught her attention. Each seems a good science provider. Parents like Smith/Wellesley best among the women's colleges.</p>
<p>She knocked out Tufts and Amherst because she liked Smith/MHO/Wellesley better. Great grandmother was Smith class of 1898 so there's a neat history there, too. Smith dorms/houses seem best among the 3, also has the plus of offering single rooms sooner along the way, and again, there's Northampton...</p>
<p>D is a violinist, blackbelt in karate, apolitical, soduku fanatic, too old for her age, sailor, NOT a neat freak, good kid, social, mildly religious, into drama, naturally gifted with great grades/testing skills (all honors/APs, high SATs I/II).</p>
<p>Wife and I sure would like D to attend where profs love their work and are energetic. She's wanted to be a vet for some time, tho she could just as easily be a scientist, mathematician, etc. </p>
<p>Has anyone perspective you could share on what you've heard/learned about the classroom experience and profs attitudes among the 3 schools?</p>
<p>Re the classroom experience, I can only speak to Smith, and that second-hand via my D and many other students.</p>
<p>In a word: great. In her first two years on campus, D had maybe 3-4 profs she would rate as only "good." All the others were very good to outstanding. Lots of "extra mile" stuff. Profs, even department chairs teaching a <em>discussion section</em>(!!!!) fully engaged. Lots of class discussion.</p>
<p>Note that there are probably some less than stellar profs at Smith but D was systematic and ruthless about looking at potential classes of interest and then asking through the grapevine about various profs. Having all years represented in the same House is a great benefit in this regard. There was a discussion here on the board about math profs just a while ago. </p>
<p>MHC was never a contender for D, too remote. W was the bridesmaid and that "Likely" letter sure took off the stress and made everyone think highly of W...which is why they send them. </p>
<p>One of the things D preferred about Smith is that the performing arts are a lot more integral to campus life and the academic program...at W, they're more like EC afterthoughts. Jonathon Hirsch, the orchestra director, met with D (and us) when D was a junior prospect and he's attitude was amazing, asking D to come back that evening so that she could sit on stage with her section while they rehearsed...that one incident, btw, probably typifies Smith the best for me, the "what can we do for you" attitude.</p>
<p>A statement that would be regarded as a provocation in some quarters but D felt more at home socially at Smith. While both schools have both their share of Pell Grant (lower economic status) and "old money" students, D, in her overnights, felt some strains of material status consciousness at W that she's never felt at Smith. (I think Mini has the numbers that show Smith has a more economically diverse population as well.)</p>
<p>..."One of the things D preferred about Smith is that the performing arts are a lot more integral to campus life and the academic program...at W, they're more like EC afterthoughts."</p>
<p>That is our impression, too. Our son experienced this at BU and it really turned him off once he got into playing with the different jazz ensembles. At W, we can't see our daughter driving 30 minutes to Brandeis each time she needs to get together with others. We're certainly not going to let her take a car to school. Same goes for MHC. BTW, my office in Needham is only a 15 minute drive from W. D has not been exposed to the social elitism that is prevalent in W.</p>
<p>I find the description in your last paragraph hitting home with what we sense as well.</p>
<p>It's funny, but most prospective students strongly prefer either Smith or Wellesley over the over. In my d's high school, the three who went to Wellesley ruled out Smith as a prospective college -- and the two who went to Smith weren't interested in applying to Wellesley. The campus atmospheres are too different to appeal equally to the same kind of student despite excellent academics at both. </p>
<p>MHC is still another matter. Again, it's so different from the other two that, despite many crossover applications, students have a clear idea whether MHC is a first choice or not. My d., when the acceptances arrived last spring, was thrilled with Bryn Mawr and Smith, but tossed MHC into the pile of acceptances she had already decided didn't matter. Like TD's daughter, mine did not like the isolation of MHC. She wanted to be able to walk into a town instead of relying on public transportation and other students with cars.</p>
<p>What MWFN says suggests is that somehow the students mostly kinda know what they're doing in assessing how various colleges "fit" and most of them wind up where "they belong."</p>
<p>I admit that while I could--and often have--give all sorts of objective reasons why D chose Smith, there was just a gut-level "click" of "this is where I belong." All the more objective stuff surfaced in response to the question, "Why do I feel this way?"</p>
<p>Exactly, TD. No matter which college my d. chose out of her list, she would have gotten an excellent education, but she didn't feel equally at home at those places.</p>
<p>I remember when <em>I</em> was looking at colleges saying to my parents, "Turn around! There's no way I'm going here!" based the first moments of driving onto a campus. I'm sure they were perplexed, but thank goodness that they humored me - mostly.</p>
<p>On the other hand, my d. said that there was no way she was going to visit Smith, and I forced her. I did <em>not</em> humor her. Within two minutes of beginning the tour, however, her eyes were shining, and she moved right up to the head of the pack to listen to the tour guide. Today, she is starting Gold Key training to become a campus guide herself. :-)</p>
<p>Of all the LACs, Smith is the least homogenous. When assessing if the college is a good <em>fit</em>, an overnight, if possible, is highly recommended. And b/c of Smith’s unique housing system, it’s advisable a prospective student attempt to get a /feel/ for the various houses/areas. i.e. Elm v. Quad v. Green St. There’s no bad, good, better, best, but they are different. Unfortunate as it is, there are prospective students who come close, or do, eliminate Smith b/c they didn’t feel they <em>clicked</em> with women in a particular house, when in fact they probably would have been thrilled with Smith had they stayed in a different housing area, or at the least, visited women in other locations, in addition to their host house/student.</p>
<p>“On the other hand, my d. said that there was no way she was going to visit Smith, and I forced her. I did <em>not</em> humor her.”</p>
<p>LOL…My daughter said exactly the same thing. Being a legacy worked against considering Smith. She wanted her “own” college. I, too, forced her to spend time on campus with other students. The rest is history.</p>
<p>MWFN, I love your "came to scoff, stayed to pray" story about your D & Smith.</p>
<p>I think RLT makes a valid point, not just about Smith, but all colleges, in not letting a particular hostess or dorm (or tour guide!) paint the complete picture of the college. Both of D's overnights at Smith were on the Quad but she received a number of cues--from a tour guide, from an alum, from current students at a prospect party--that led her to believe that she might be very happy on Green St. (Proximity to the Performing Arts complex was a plus for purely practical reasons.) </p>
<p>Postscript: she's having a great junior year away but misses her House.</p>
<p>Now I idly wonder...she's probably got it covered but lest she forget amid the distractions abroad...does anyone know when room draw for next year is? I know that she was going to arrange a proxy for herself but her e-mail access is intermittent and it best be attended to too early rather than cutting it too close, as the mohel said.</p>
<p>"Both of D's overnights at Smith were on the Quad but she received a number of cues--from a tour guide, from an alum, from current students at a prospect party--that led her to believe that she might be very happy on Green St"</p>
<p>Great example. Thanks. ;) Green St is perfect for a special type of woman. I know another woman that found the Quad was not a great, ok, horrible fit. She moved to Elm and loves her new house.
When my daughter visited, the admission officer introduced her to women living in the Quad. Did she feel the Quad was best suited for her interests and personality? Who knows! </p>
<p>Sailor, over the decades I’ve been associated with Smith, I’ve found the Quad most often recommended by alumnae, but that’s because it houses the most women. Consequently, the Quad, by default, has the greatest alumnae presence. So take the info with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>As you can see Sailor, housing can be very individualistic. There are those who would transfer if forced to leave their respective house, whether it be the Quad, Elm or Green St.</p>
<p>Personally, I liked the apartment a sr had many years ago. :)</p>
<p>TheDad, your D might have missed the deadline for designating a proxy - she should probably get in touch with the housing person asap if she missed the deadline. My friends who are abroad designated proxies a while ago.</p>
<p>Momwaiting, now I'm really curious as to who your daughter is. I was at the training too.</p>
<p>i was at a dinner party last night and one of the other guests was a wellesley alum (i went to smith; we're now at the same law school). i told her that i refused to look at wellesley and she told me she never even considered smith. a lot of it comes down to the town they're in: mt holyoke is very rural (but a former roommate of mine went there and was quite happy with it), smith is a small but vibrant town, and there's not much going on in wellesley but it's easy to get to boston (which might be good if your d's into sailing). Smith has the most socioeconomic diversity of the three, and I thought that was cool.</p>
<p>honestly, in a lot of ways the three schools are more similar than different--many of the traditions/culture/classes strongly resemble each other. I don't think you can go wrong!</p>
<p>oh, and I don't know what religion your daughter is, but I LOVE the religious life program at smith. It was a very unexpected bonus of going to college there. My faith deepened quite a bit over my four years at Smith. I'm Jewish and knew many other Jews, but I also had many friends who were quite involved with different strains of the christian community. Of the more religious people I knew in college, a few are considering or have enrolled in divinity school or seminary.</p>
<p>Smith's clergy are all lovely people. The chapel employs muslim, catholic, protestant, and jewish chaplains for weekly services on campus and general counseling and activities, plus an interfaith coordinator, a dean of religious life, and a director of community service...the chapel can also put people in touch with congregations and clergy from other faiths (there are strong buddhist, UU, quaker, and evangelical christian communities, among other religions, in the 5-college area). There's a kosher and halal kitchen on campus, too. Nearly all the faith communities at Smith and in the surrounding area are extremely open and accepting, and they welcome of people who want to learn about different religions or are questioning their faith. I really can't say enough good things about religious life at smith.</p>
<p>(but I also really like the rabbi at Mt. Holyoke).</p>
<p>Borgin, thanks. I'd already e-mailed her but there's a good chance that she'd already taken care of it and not mentioned it. We spoke for about 90 minutes yesterday...and 80 of it was on mathematics, such topics as the Cantor set and Greene's Theorem...a conversation where I was having to move my lips just to follow along with parts of it.</p>
<p>I'll echo what Stacy said about religious life. My D (Catholic) went on a retreat to Maryknoll in New York...and two friends, one Jewish and one atheist, went along for the weekend. D had also never gone through confirmation at home--process not compatible with her ballet schedule--but did so while at Smith. And she was very pleased that some of her non-Catholic, non-Christian friends came to the service in support of her.</p>
<p>Liz, the Catholic chaplain is female, very nice, and intellectually formidable. We took her out to dinner on one visit and I was happy to get to know her a bit beyond D's second-hand descriptions.</p>
<p>And ordinarily I wouldn't even blink about the housing stuff but in one of the few administrative bobbles, part of Smith was not aware that D was going abroad in the Spring semester after spending the Fall in Washington. There were some on-campus meetings during the Fall that they assumed that all students going abroad for Spring were attending...D did not/could not because she was in D.C. However, anticipating this, she had asked about the meetings for the year-abroad students held last Spring and was told, no, those were not for her. Catch-23. Everything else got sorted out, I have no reason to suppose that this won't too, assuming there's even anything to sort.</p>
<p>“There were some on-campus meetings during the Fall that they assumed that all students going abroad for Spring were attending...”</p>
<p>After rethinking this, if the proxy information was discussed but your daughter wasn’t given the consideration of an email explaining the process and deadline, I’d submit a protest. All being fair, she should be able to select a proxy before the room draw.</p>
<p>"that led her to believe that she might be very happy on Green St. (Proximity to the Performing Arts complex was a plus for purely practical reasons.)"</p>
<p>My daughter is on Green St. as well, after starting out on Elm. She loves that orchestra is right across the street, and that many of her classes were just steps away, which meant she could sleep a few minutes longer. (She has a longer walk this semester, however.)</p>
<p>Housing and area selection are quite personal, however, I find that once a student gets settled, it's pretty much for good. My D looked at all the options for housing, and chose the quad; primarily for the social aspect of being around larger numbers of students. First year is always so depressing being away from home, and this made her feel better. She honestly doesn't mind the walk to classes at all, even in inclement weather. She loves her house, and she and her two best friends are already making arrangements for next year to be near each other in the same house.</p>