Choosing - Smith v Wellesley v MHO

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
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<p>AdOfficer: you could tell your Mom, "An ugly word for an ugly fact."</p>

<p>I suppose it's a matter of degree: I find the fretting of #3 vs. #15, #8 vs. #23 to be insane. For an academically ambitious student, the broad category of "Most Competitive" or "Highly Competitive" works just fine and is fine enough.</p>

<p>Based on "prestige" and rankings, my D should be attending Wellesley. Smith is a so much better fit for her that it's not funny. </p>

<p>As some have heard me say probably too much, for me the acid comparison was Yale vs. Smith. After all the visits, I thought Smith was the best fit. I kept asking myself if I had the guts to recommend Smith over Yale to D if she were admitted to both; fortunately, Yale's adcom saved both me and D the trouble and that chalice passed.</p>

102

<p>"In truth, prestige does matter..."</p>

<p>Absolutely, it does, which is one reason why the parents here keep pointing out that Smith is an excellent school.</p>

<p>I find my Dartmouth degree to be an excellent antidote to blonde stereotyping. :-)</p>

103

<p>Btw, 2b's needle notwithstanding, Smith has got something going for it: few colleges on CC come close to Smith in on-line parental support per capita enrollment. Something has impressed the heck out of a lot of us.</p>

104

<p>"Mom...well it's interesting that you mention Smith's Pell numbers, because some of us in admissions are lobbying for USNWR to consider this and socioeconomic diversity of student body in their rankings"</p>

<p>That won't happen! Some schools would drop several spots on the basis of this alone. :-) They would lobby against it as though their academic lives depended on it.</p>

<p>Universities try to be diverse, but not all succeed.</p>

105

<p>"Something has impressed the heck out of a lot of us."</p>

<p>Either that, or we are talking and can't shut up.</p>

106

<p>"By the way, mini, Ruth Simmons ROCKS!"</p>

<p>Actually, it is the combination of Simmons and Christ that rocks. Simmons did some really big thinking for Smith, but she also put them financially far in the hole, putting new programs and new initiatives on the table without any real notion or plan of how to pay for them. Christ figured out how to pay for them, and put the college on a much sounder footing. </p>

<p>Out where I live, no one, and I really mean NO ONE has ever heard of my alma mater (the #1 LAC - but it's always nice to see all those big purple W's ;)); Smith is definitely better known. One reason for that is simple, though: as a state capital, we have more than a few folks in the higher levels of social work and social service careers, and Smith put lots of folks on those paths in the 1970s.</p>

107

<p>Note that the retention rate for those receiving financial aid is higher than for those who are not. (it is likely that their SAT scores are lower.)</p>

108

<p>Part of the reason why some schools' Pell numbers are so low is because 1) they can't fund these kids (like schools that are not need-blind) and 2) because they aren't actively looking for high potential, high need students. I find myself flabberghasted at some HIGHLY respected institutions that claim they are doing a lot to increase economic diversity in their classrooms and really are not doing a lot. In my visits to some of the poorest areas of major cities in this country, I'm often times the only officer visiting from a "prestigious" institution...as someone who grew up not even thinking I could go to college because of $$$, this really ticks me off...kudos to Smith for being proactive...I need to prep my niece for a visit to Northampton...</p>

<p>Mini...I recommended Williams to a kid the other day who was from California and he had no clue...that boggled my mind!!! Regionally though, I imagine it's not so surprising, considering the fact that most of the West Coast higher ed landscape is dominated by larger research institutions, save Reed, Whitman, Lewis and Clark, the Claremonts, and a few others. I did hear things about Ruth's legacy at Smith similar to what you mentioned...however, what she's doing at Brown impresses the heck out of me.</p>

109

<p>
[quote]
kudos to Smith for being proactive...I need to prep my niece for a visit to Northampton...

[/quote]

Hey...I'm really starting to like this guy!</p>

110

<p>^^^^^^LOL...see, I'm not bad...</p>

111

<p>Well, it's happened...D has been accepted at all 3 women's colleges in Mass. Yay! Decent 'leadership' scholarship from MHC; don't know about the others yet. Awaiting response from Cornell, and that will be tough contender b/c of the vet school tie. But, it looks like the race is on...Glad I'm not the one making this decision...I'd be in a straight jacket way too soon to cut the deposit check. Really great news and we're very proud of D. She is doing an overnight next Tues @ Smith and will get to visit with prehealth advisor. We might be able to revisit MHC for a couple of hours along the way. Best news? I get to take a couple days off from my billable hours life and stay at the Autumn Inn. Hope the coffee's good and the wifi works!</p>

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<p>Congratulations to your D sailorguy! Sounds like she has some big decisions to make. If I can be of any help......? Enjoy the Autumn Inn.</p>

113

<p>BJM8 -- think i could have some of your advice as well?</p>

<p>i was accepted to smith last night (!!!) and waitlisted at wellesley this morning (ehhh). throw into the mix an acceptance from brandeis, and a likely acceptance to mcgill (getting ahead of myself a bit, here, but..)
from what i've seen and heard about smith and wellesley, i'd take smith over w in a heartbeat. brandeis is pretty much out of the running. but the difficulty lies in weighing SMITH vs MCGILL. they're two veeery different institutions -- but, if it makes any sense, they both seem like matches. i know i'm asking for opinions on a smith board.. but i thought i'd rack everyone's brains for a moment. if it helps any, i'm hoping to major in french.</p>

114

<p>If you're majoring in French, it makes sense that your thinking about McGill (because of Quebec) or Smith (LACs are good for languages). </p>

<p>McGill is cheaper, but who knows when financial aid is considered.</p>

<p>What in particular draws you to Smith and McGill?</p>

115

<p>i was attracted to both schools initially after hearing students RAVE about both schools. i'm a city girl, and am in love with montr?al. it seems like a city that i could live in easily, and seems great for young people. (the winter is an entirely different matter.. but i can deal!) i'm drawn to the bilingual city, and the course offerings at a larger school.
the only downsides that stand out are grade deflation, unhelpful administration, huge classes, difficult to get a job as an american. i'm afraid i'd feel like a number. most of that is anecdotal, but the anecdotes all seem consistent.</p>

<p>i'm drawn to smith's.. atmosphere.. if that makes sense. the more intimate setting (i would be a person, not a number!). the academics of course. the 5 college consortium. the 2011 smithies that i have met and spoken with all seem wonderful.
the downsides would be a more suburban setting than i'm used to. no real linguistics program (possible minor). i've heard the 5-college consortium isn't as convenient as it seems. and as a heterosexual, the all-women college might be tough to get used to.</p>

<p>so far, the family is pushing mcgill. i have a feeling my mother suspects i'm a lesbian (probably due to my political views), and has treated the prospect of me attending smith very peculiarly. i can really only laugh, but it makes things difficult because i think she's giving our family and friends the wrong idea about me. i guess i'll have to deal.</p>

<p>all that said (whew), any opinions?</p>

116

<p>where do you want to go with your french degree? i have friends who are from paris and speak parisian french and i know someone from quebec. they each think that each other's accents are ridiculous. i think it's somewhat of a minor thing but people tell me that the french like their language spoken their way. i don't know much about the french dept at smith so i can't really help you there.</p>

<p>you mentioned that you want a place where your a person, not a number, and that's basically the same reason i only applied to small lacs. i had the option of cal or ucla, both of which are extremely affordable given that i'm in-state, but i think the extra cost of smith is well worth the benefits. languages are hard enough but learning it in an intimate setting is one of the best ways to do so, imo.</p>

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<p>Have you visited? Visiting knocked quite a few places off my "possible" list. A lot of this had to do with location; I really didn't want to go somewhere "urban" (I live near a very urban university and I don't like it) and so I deliberately tried to visit only suburban schools. However, after visiting some of these small college towns on the east coast, I deciding that I needed a bit more than that. Smith seemed about right when I visited--- not intertwined in a big city, but still walking distance from a large and interesting town. I don't think I would have caught this by just reading about Smith and looking at pictures w/o the visit. </p>

<p>The "I want to be a name, not a number" is important business as well. Like the position theothermuse was once in, I could go to a UC for less money, but am mainly interested in LACs. I'm just really reluctant to go to a UC because of the huge size. My mom is a UC professor, and I live close to a UC, so I know what I'd be getting myself into. Sure, I'd feel comfy sitting silently in the back corner of a room of 200 people, but is that really in my best interest? What if I fall between the cracks? If my professor doesn't even know who I am, how will I get help or recommendations? I figured that LAC are better on this front. In fact, when I mentioned Smith to my dental hygienist, she said, "Oh, I've heard good things about Smith. I hear you get lots of attention."</p>

<p>On the other, I think that if your a really motivated, independent, outgoing, and fairly competitive person (in other words, you must actually take the initiative to meet your professors and fight for their attention), many of the problems associated with a large university are greatly reduced. Add on top of that the increased resources (once again, if you're willing to set out and get them for yourself) and lower cost (at least with some places, like the UCs and McGill), and a large university may be a better deal than a LAC. Judge for yourself....I don't know what you're like in person, so I can't say where you'd be better off. It's also unpredictable; my bro, who's a fairly quiet/shy guy, went to a large university and said the size wasn't such a big deal. Other people go to large universities all excited only to be extremely disappointed.</p>

<p>Screw the lesbian stereotype thing. As for how easy it is for a straight girl to meet guys, I've heard mixed stories from current students [ranging from "It's actually really easy" to "it's very difficult and there's no way to sugarcoat it"].</p>

<p>Alright --- I'm done with this long post. Good luck deciding.</p>

118

<p>Well, it's here - 6 colleges to choose from, three with merit awards, most with grants bc of the 2 students in college thing (will be on full ride as Jr/Sr-ugh). One Ivy waitlist. What a ride this has been in comparison to S's quest 2 years ago. Lot harder to choose an LAC with its fuzzies vs. B school. CC has been with us through the whole thing!</p>

<p>After D's latest visit for an overnite it looks like we're nearing that fateful point of decision which will likely be - S or W?</p>

<p>MHC just isn't generating the excitement for D despite solid financial pkg (4-yr leadership award), and a good visit with prehealth advisor. New science building is compelling and a marvel to behold. But, just looking down the street at that long line of institutional buildings fails to grab my D's - and my - attention. And while quaint, our visit to So. Hadley's 'downtown' shops made me wonder how I'd last after the first 15 minutes - I'm not even ADHD - I think. Nice folks, friendly students, great rep, verry attractive facilities...but oh so isolated. Something about it just feels like it wouldn't be fair to lock up my D that way for 4 yrs. (Gawd I hope I don't get flamed for this, but it is a feeling you either have or you don't w/a setting like MHC).</p>

<p>W overnite coming up and that will put both S & W on even keel w/respect to time spent at each. D more interested here than MHC, but, some of that generated by our extolling W's prestige and admissions challenge. First visit so-so. Excellent interview experience. Great financial offer. The open campus days will ferret out more details. </p>

<p>Smith has been #1 from the getgo. No where else has generated the spark in D's body language that S has given her, tho. Mind you, this is so gut feelilng it's pathetic. Even the casual visit with prof advisor generated new ideas and visible enthusiasm by D. Very captivating moment as an observer. Precisely why wife and I have honed in on LAC for D, and why S is oh so taking the prize. </p>

<p>D's overnite was 3rd visit to S and icing on the cake I'm betting. Spent time with a couple profs, visited music dept, attended a class, ate ice cream (you know where), spent time with equally witty and fun young women, who by the way all had single rooms! (Quad) Sneaked me in for lunch (brought back fond memories that did tho I digress!)</p>

<p>Am struggling some with the sanity of the financial decision this entails, tho. Gratefully, more a matter of pragmatism than capability in the long run. Never thought I'd find myself in this position as I was such a proponent of the merit aid holy grail. Still would be nice, mind you, but the subtleties are seeming priceless at least for our D's needs. Guess this delays that new boat and the trip down the intercoastal for awhile.</p>

<p>I'd hope for the possibility of meeting some of the CCers here at family weekend whenever that is. Do people from this board actually connect there? Pls tell me there's no secret handshake.</p>

<p>Will report in once final decision is made. Nite all.</p>

<p>SG</p>

119

<p>Good luck to your daughter, SG! You know that everyone here thinks that Smith is a fantastic place for an intelligent mind. I, for one, am not-so-secretly hoping that your D chooses Smith. If she doesn't, I'll just have to console myself with the knowledge that she <em>could</em> have chosen it. :-)</p>

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<p>SG, there are many overlaps between my D's and your D's reactions to Smith, MHC, and W. When D stepped upon S's campus, there was an almost audible "click." I can remember several times during the visits when there was a very visible amount of connection between D and whatever was happening, whether listening to a student panel, talking to a prof, whatever, that didn't happen anywhere else.</p>

<p>There is no secret handshake for the parents. There is a ritual for the students, however: "My dad/mom talks to your dad/mom on CC." <synchronized eye-roll=""></synchronized></p>