<p>Dear CC community,.. Yesterday I finally decided that I will go to Fordham, but. I'm having a second thought today, I'm very confused, desperate and crying (though I've never been a weakling). Not only it's that everyone seems to be surprised I chose Fordham over BU (considering I receive no aid from both), but it's also..Am I doing the right thing turning down BU with its international recognition and a more diverse student body (which is extremely important since I am a liberal agnostic/atheist international from Kazakhstan) and choosing Fordham mainly because of its location in NYC? It is so egoistical of me to choose a university just because I feel better there. My parents will be paying a huge amount of money they've been saving for years.. I want them to be able to brag to others about their daughter's university, but in Kazakhstan no one knows Fordham, while BU is more or less internationally prestigeous. Please help. damn.. :'<</p>
<p>First congratulations! Second, you will be fine. Fordham has a beautiful campus, gated (Rose Hill main campus in the Bronx) and an AWESOME faculty.</p>
<p>Fordham is an outstanding school. Yes, their core is tough, but well balanced and many of your core classes go towards your major. You can double major, but many major and minor. IR at Fordham is very strong…so is business…and a new building in Business is going to be incredible…with an NYSE trading floor in the lobby.</p>
<p>Fordham has students from all over and many faith backgrounds, and yes, agnostics. Theology is strong at Fordham but its only required to take 2 courses and you have many choices…including comparative religion. Fordham also teaches Arabic. You can take courses at Lincoln Center as well. </p>
<p>Fordham is also very diverse.<br>
Your classes will be small and intimate. You will make many friends. Relax. Breathe. Buy some gear and embrace Fordham.</p>
<p>Its a very, very good school…and very well known. They film movies there all the time!</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>bump. thank you! any more advice will be appreciated. I’m still not sure and confused, because in my homecountry literally no one knows what Fordham is, and also… what if I go to Fordham and won’t fit there? I know it’s being diversified, but still…I’m not white, or Catholic, or even Latino or Chinese… Freshman students tend to group with people similar to them, I feel like I will be left out…(</p>
<p>PersonaS…NYC is the most diverse city in the world. You’ll fit in whether you like it or not. I’ve lived here for 17 years and I can say that you being from a country like Kazakhstan will make you seem extra interesting. Most of the Asians at Fordham will look like you race-wise (not trying to be racist, just being honest). Many of the students at Fordham aren’t catholic, the Jesuit part of Fordham isn’t a big deal when it comes to the student body. I honestly believe you’ll fit in easier in NY than …MA. In fact, I’m certain of it. </p>
<p>Also, why are you so worried about the prestige? Fordham is getting more and more recognition every year, it is known in the east and west coasts of America. Do you plan on going back to Kazakhstan with the degree you get and working there? Is that what scares you?</p>
<p>^^ ^^ I agree. Fordham is very diverse and very tolerant. If you are personable, outgoing and also tolerant, others will like you and become your friends. My daughter had friends from Lebanon, as well as Jewish students, and many agnostics. There are Russians at Fordham, Chinese, South Americans, Latino-Americans, African Americans, on and on. NOBODY PUSHES RELIGION. That is a personal decision. Theology is taught more like philosophy. And if YOU come with an open mind, ready to learn and grow, then your experience will be beneficial for everyone.</p>
<p>Freshmen come from all over the place and during Freshmen orientation there are many events (following move in), some for everyone and some for your individual dorm. Everyone also eats in the cafeteria. Plus there are upperclassmen all over the place, ready, willing and able to help you. </p>
<p>The beauty of Rose Hill is that it is gated: enclosed. Everyone is on campus during the school day. At BU, its an urban setting…downtown…and not a real campus…and you feel like you are downtown.</p>
<p>I am glad to be reading this conversation. My daughter is choosing Fordham (for performance) over offers from performance programs that are said to be more prestigious, and also over offers from academic schools that are more prestigious. Why? Because on her visits she felt that the classes, both craft and academic, were the best she has observed; the faculty seem wonderful, and they and the students are warm and welcoming. She has a great feeling about the place, that she can work, learn, and grow here.</p>
<p>But, a few critics (friends) are still being vocal, saying the program is not well-respected in comparison to some of her other choices, or that, because it is a Catholic school, there will be a limited mindset. (I am satisfied that this is not true. If anything, Fordham will be supportive towards my daughter’s strong interest in social justice.) </p>
<p>I am trying to parse out how much of this criticism, although well-intended, is founded on vague assumptions and an underlying, perhaps unconscious, prejudice against Catholics. I myself went to Catholic school for 13 years (before college) but deliberately chose to raise my children outside of Catholicism, so I feel that, perhaps more than others, I have radar for and insight about the kinds of subtle prejudices that the intelligentsia harbors against practicing Catholics and Catholic institutions. (I don’t think this is the OP’s issue-- in my case it is a “send-your-kid-to-an-Ivy-or-Tisch” East coast issue.) But surely others making this choice have come across similar kinds of criticism. </p>
<p>One of the criticisms I received yesterday said bluntly that, coming from Fordham, she will not be taken seriously in the NYC theater world. This statement seems to go against what we have observed directly (and I have also studied the Fordham alumni on their website.) I know I won’t find clarity posting here on the Fordham forum, but I did need to vent. I have never gone for the whiff of prestige over what seems to be a right choice, but a pointed, dooming criticism at the 11th hour casts a pall on things.</p>
<p>"…but in Kazakhstan no one knows Fordham, while BU is more or less internationally prestigeous." </p>
<p>Well PersonaS, perhaps in that part of the world BU may be better known, but here it is a different fact for you and your parents to put aside any concern. In the US the most quoted reference of college rankings is US News and World Report. It is so accepted, that for just about every major university, the ranking they receive is often quoted as their de facto ranking on their Wikipedia sites and on their home pages.</p>
<p>For 2012 (and you and your parents cann look this up on the net yourselves), for National Universities the ranking is:</p>
<p>Fordham-53rd
Boston University-53rd</p>
<p>Yes, they are tied! While BU might have some stronger departments, Fordham will have stronger departments in other areas. BUT to the experts, they are academically too similar to rate one over the other. My daughter spent a day at BU and didn’t like it when she was looking at schools. She is a happy junior at Fordham. BU is one of the largest private universities spread over city blocks in Boston (a lot like NYU, but sovereigndebt said it best). Fordham is a beucolic gothic campus with access to the financial and cultural capital of the world.</p>
<p>Are you planning to return to kazakhstan after graduating? If so, international reputation will matter more. If you are staying in the US, Fordham is a great school. But the bronx campus is pretty insulated.</p>
<p>Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using CC</p>
<p>^^^ international reputation is almost impossible to measure, since there are many continents, countries and many cultures and BU has a med school. Fordham’s Law School is VERY highly ranked and respected. </p>
<p>I think you meant “insular” not “insulated.” </p>
<p>Fordham’s campus is gated. Its beautiful. The Bronx is eclectic, but there are very nice parts there as well, including right across the street to the main entrance with the Bronx Zoo and Botanical Gardens, which are world famous. </p>
<p>Fordham students are not stuck on campus…most go outside the gates into Manhattan and many into the Bronx for internships, shopping and eating in fine restaurants.</p>
<p>It is much better to choose Fordham based on criteria that are important to you rather than choose another school based on the perception that people find it more prestigious! Just who will be attending the school you pick anyway?!! Welcome to Fordham! You will love it!</p>
<p>Bu has a less traditional path with that goes five years with the year of work internship program. That is something to consider. Not better nor worse, just different.</p>
<p>As for the catholic thing, my daughters were raised catholic are pretty much agnostic and liberal and they have absolutely no problems. If you are catholic there are plenty of opportunies, if you aren’t, but want to be part of the amazing volunteer opportunities, you can and will not feel out of place.</p>
<p>As for the idea of a limited mindset, there were of course a couple of issues, ie birth control not available on campus, but overall the pluses, social justice, access, internships, location, etc for us, out weighed the issues.</p>
<p>Bu is a great school. So is Fordham. Its all about what you want, not what others think. When you send pictures back of you at a Yankees game, at the theater, by the statue of liberty, in central park, at the Bronx zoo, people will be thrilled.</p>
<p>Good luck, take a breathe, and your heart will tell you which to choose.</p>
<p>Seahorses:</p>
<p>I dont want to start a fight over this, but I have to respond. Fordham is Jesuit and Catholic as you know. The Church teaching on birth control, for better or worse (and I dont agree with 1966 Encyclical Humanae Vitae fwiw) is clear. So its unrealistic to expect them to provide birth control devices on campus. But its also silly. Because if you walk across Fordham Road to CVS, all of them are available there. I see this issue, like the bruhaha with Obama, to be an invasion of the First Amendment rights of Fordham and all Catholic Schools to make their own religious rules and not have the government tell them how to conduct themselves. Birth Control, like premarital sex between consenting partners, is a choice. Again, I am not against birth control per se, I am simply against government intrustion into the Catholic Church and Universities. </p>
<p>You may differ on that opinion.</p>
<p>Sd, no, I actually chose insulated. I’m well aware of Rose Hill’s
Atmosphere, it’s positives and negatives. I’m a graduate with 8 family members attending or recently graduated. It was absolutely the right school for me. It is great, but it isnt all things for all people. I have recommended other schools for some people based on what they are looking for. For an international student, there are other considerations. As for location, BU has a much better city locale than rose hill, but it will never be NY.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using CC</p>
<p>Insulated? From what? Please.</p>
<p>Insular? As in closed in and focused on itself? Yes…at some level. But 99% of Fordham students, which you profess to have been, with 8 family members attending? (not sure if I buy that one…believe it or not, legacy is not one of Fordham’s more recent legacies…that may have been the case 40 years ago, not today) go off campus frequently, but only about 1% live just outside the gates in independent apartments. </p>
<p>I too have recommended others to other schools. I never stated and will never state its all things to all people. (I also dont believe everything I read on CC…some stories are simply not credible or likely. There are plenty of trolls out there. Not saying this OP is one, but Khazakstan? And speaks English so well? Not sure…I need more information. I knew one person from Khazakstan, an LLM student at a southern school that I happened to meet in a social setting, and his language skills were marginal and he struggled mightily.) I am quick to point out Fordham’s quirks to people and strongly recommend a visit to campus. But I also am quick to dispel rumors and that nasty suburban attitude that comes from people who sneer at the Bronx. </p>
<p>My kid is in graduate school in Boston. And will likely do her doctorate there. But she may well end up in the Bronx…in a toney area like Riverdale or Throgs Neck, and would GLADLY work in the Bronx. She wants NOTHING TO DO WITH LONG ISLAND (unless its on the water up north shore a bit (Sound side)…but that is high rent district and not likely going to happen…she isn’t Bill OReilly’s daughter! LOL)</p>
<p>I don’t put down schools. In fact, my daughter has friends at BU right now…one in med school there. I have a neighbor who is a BU Med grad. I happen to like Boston on many levels. BUT…I am very wary of claims of superior prestige particularly by uninformed foreign nationals. </p>
<p>Our job here as Fordham supporters (alumni, parents, students, donors etc.) is to sell Fordham appropriately…to dispel urban legends that are negative, to chuckle at urban legends that are fun and mysterious (haunted buildings on campus…and I DO have some stories about that, btw), and to help people who may be confused. But the choice of schools is theirs 100%. I dont oversell. I don’t twist arms. I don’t tell pinocchio stories. </p>
<p>Every school admits and enrolls kids who make mistakes in selecting a college. Happens at Harvard and Duke just as often as Fordham. (I knew an admissions counselor at a prestigious southern LAC who went to Harvard and hated it, but graduated.) </p>
<p>It may well be that our “friend from Khazakstan” belongs somewhere else. But cold feet is also a normal process for most kids, and some nervousness is normal for those who dont live in New York and don’t know New York or the Bronx. Our job is to help them. </p>
<p>I am a strong believer that going away to college is healthy and particularly if its in a different region with a different culture. For many the college in a big city is not for them. They belong at bucolic places like Kenyon or Sewannee or W & L etc. For some they belong at PennState or Michigan or Notre Dame or UNC or Georgia. Great schools with huge student bodies and enormous sports franchises. </p>
<p>Fordham, as you well know, is a very unique place with a unique setting. Gated, classic gothic campus in a special borough (the zoo, the Botanical Gardens, Arthur Ave) in one of the “centers of the world” cities making that claim. (Its not alone in that claim.) </p>
<p>Other than that…its all good. :-)</p>
<p>I don’t want to get into a fght Either sovereign, butnhead carefully what I wrote. I said the birthcncontrol not on campus was irksome, but not a deal breaker. I wish the church grew up and ditched their old way of thinking in this regard, as a majority of catholic women admit to using birth control, and it’s a bunch of old men making decisions regarding womens health. They can do what they want and women will still defy them.</p>
<p>So for my daughter we found an amazing womens clinic near the Lincoln center campus my girls both used for check up, birth control, breast exams, pelvics, etc. </p>
<p>Sovereign, you dent need to be so defensive of Fordham, we love it. I was pointing out one of the issues I have and my daughters had with the school, but it was by no means a deal breaker, and we went in with a plan to deal with their health issues.</p>
<p>Ps. The clinic on campus was great for other problems, when my one daughter got shingles,and the other a very bad sore ear.</p>
<p>I wish people would stop denigrating the Catholic church and its priests. Such an easy target and so forgiving of you all. Actually, to use sex as recreation or to stop the creation gift from God without a really good reason is like giving God the you-know-what thoughtlessly. So you would rather pump your children with hormones, while maybe even buying organic and hormone-free chicken, etc., to eat. To keep their bodies free from side effects like blood clots, stroke, breast cancer, infertility problems later, and such, they might want to try natural family planning if they want to avoid pregnancy. I’m sure they are smart enough to understand to abstain a few days a month, but if they want to pollute themselves and our ground water… raising breast cancer rates…look at Long Island with the highest bc rates. And it’s not silly to stand up for your principles when you run your home or school, etc., just because something is done outside your perimeter.</p>
<p>Fordham is a tolerant community that welcomes people of different faiths and even non believers. Not all Catholics share your views. I share mine sparingly here. I am not going to get into the Church scandal stuff as that is, thank the Lord, mostly in the past and being dealt with appropriately now. The Jesuits are a special breed and I am honored to count them among my friends and mentors. Courses at Fordham will explore such topics for those who sign up for the courses. </p>
<p>One of the things that makes Fordham special is that students can write papers and espouse views that may not comport with the professors views and in almost every case not be abused for doing so. My daughter wrote controversial papers at Fordham in high level courses with some famous faculty and to a person was told, “I dont agree with your position, but your papers are extraordinary and deserving of an A for exceptional scholarship.” </p>
<p>I stand up for my principles as well, and while I dont agree with everything that has come out of the Vatican in the last 50 years, I respect the Holy Father, the College of Cardinals and the Jesuits. (Not all Jesuits are liberal and not all are conservative.)</p>
<p>Our personal views on human sexuality are healthy topics of discussion in class and when raised appropriately, can be very insightful. Kids in every college, Catholic or not, do what kids do…and while my kid shares my views on morality and behavior, she learned to respect others of differing views.</p>
<p>We can agree to disagree. Mutual respect. And at the end of the day, its a very personal decision and one each student must discern with Almighty God, to their religious mentors and instructors.</p>
<p>I will share with you that the Office of Campus Ministry is awesome at Fordham. And though they recently lost their long time director Randy, to another post, they ran incredible and inspiring and very, very, very helpful weekend retreats for both men and women and also single sex retreats at Fordham’s property in Goshen, New York which is simply gorgeous. My daughter experienced these retreats and they were life changing and helped her conquer her concerns and fears of the time. I cannot stress enough how beneficial they were for her. We are devout Catholics.</p>
<p>Seahorses: I read you loud and clear. Its all good. We all make personal decisions and reconcile that with Our Lord. While we may not agree, we will always be respectful and prayerful on topics such as this.</p>
<p>I don’t forgive a group of men who systematically covered up for child rapists. Oh me bad.</p>
<p>And married people have sex Apollo the time with no interest in making a baby. And people have sex cathlolics as well before they get married.</p>
<p>As for polluting the body, egad, the world is full of hormones, and dangerous chemicals.</p>
<p>When you see that a majority of catholic women, married, single, widowed, have used birth control, you can see those men, who have no idea about marriage, sexual relationships, etc are way it of touch with their flocks.</p>
<p>So are you saying a married couple should only have sex when they want to make a baby? And the rythym or natural planning method is not very reliable.</p>
<p>I am happy my daughters and I can speak honestly about their lives.</p>
<p>And as I said, we loved the education they got at Fordham, heck they went to a Jesuit hs and catholic middle school.</p>
<p>But when they saw how the men of the church handled it’s horrid pedophile situation, yes we give those priest and bishops and such denigration and judgement.</p>
<p>The church should be the people in it. After the latest debacle about nuns,all I can say is, goodbye church</p>
<p>I think this thread has been somewhat hijacked with the opinions of some people on topics only tangentially related to Fordham and really more appropriate in the Parents Forum of coffee klatch crowd. Sorry. I am all for open discussions, but this is getting off track and not helpful to Fordham.</p>
<p>I respect views of many people. I even agree privately with some of them. Nobody here is condoning anything that happened in the Church. But name an institution founded by men (people) and I will show you fraud, sin, disgrace, murder and more. Government, business, church, athletics on and on. </p>
<p>Finally, while 1 is too many seahorses, the total number of offending clergy in the church over 60 years was less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the total ordained priests. </p>
<p>I have no idea what nuns you are talking about. Fordham was home to the late Eminence, Avery Cardinal Dulles, SJ, one of the most respected global Catholic Theologians in the last century, so much so that the Late Pope John Paul II elevated him to Cardinal for the sheer reason of his theological prowess and influence inside the Church. Cardinal Dulles was a former Presbyterian, and nephew of John Foster Dulles of State Dept. and Allen Dulles of CIA. His family disowned him after he converted to Catholicism while at Harvard earning his PhD. Cardinal Dulles was so influential that when Pope Benedict came to New York three years ago, he stopped into see Cardinal Dulles on his deathbed. (My daughter and boyfriend were invited to St. Joseph’s Seminary in Yonkers to witness that meeting and see the Pope in that small audience.) </p>
<p>I will never turn my back on the Holy Eucharist or the Holy Church, despite the sins of men (for millenia btw…even the 12 chosen ones, the Apostles were FULL OF SIN!) I can vent my angst and anger (and I have…to a close friend…a Franciscan Priest in Staten Island who is now dead), and ask why to Almighty God. But that is a separate issue from my theological views and spirituality. I am not looking for reasons to leave the Church. I am looking for ways to make it better and live my faith (here and elsewhere) by being the best Catholic I can be (not sanctimonious or presumptious or self righteous). I am a sinner, like you. </p>
<p>I am a PROUD Fordham family member (alumn and parent). I am proudly Jesuit educated. I am proud of my faith, while embarrassed by the sins (and crimes) of a FEW of its clergy. </p>
<p>There are perverts in the YMCA (loaded with them), perverts in teaching in public schools (many of them women!), perverts in business (lawsuits abound by women groped by men), perverts government (the Secret Service is dealing with this now). Doesnt make it right or doesnt make it a shrug and smile. </p>
<p>But I will not let that affect my faith and my love for Fordham University or the Jesuits. </p>
<p>If I were in charge (rhetorically speaking only) I would change many things. The Church IS the people in it, and its up to us to make it better, to heal our wounds, and to embrace all of God’s children, sinners and all.</p>
<p>I think His Eminence, Timothy Cardinal Dolan of New York is FABULOUS. I think he is going to make things right in New York and the American Church as the lead Prelate. He has been to Fordham and he “gets it!” </p>
<p>You should know that Cardinal McCarrick of Washington DC, Archbishop Emeritus, is a Fordham alumn and a very good man…which I have on very good authority. </p>
<p>Let us pray for our priests and clergy members and for the Church, that She is strengthened and her faithful are enriched with the Holy Spirit and God’s Love daily, leading us to live lives of better holiness and showing us a path to Heaven.</p>