<p>Commentary in the CSM zeros in on the major life implications for teens faced with the prospect of "Go to college, but graduate with a load of debt." While the majority of graduates are able to repay their loans because of the higher earning power a four-year degree makes possible "the trends point toward a worsening situation that needs attention." Books laden with advice on how to get scholarships and devise strategies to pay for college crowd the bookstore shelves, yet: three out of four full-time students have jobs while in college and some graduates say they're putting off marriage and children and forgoing careers in teaching or public service because of debt - they are anxious about money and aren't saving.</p>
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The economic health of America's information-driven society depends on how well it educates its young people. So it can't afford to shrug off the mounting student-debt problem with a mere "whatever." ...</p>
<p>Some people say free, high-standard Internet universities can be created with an endowment of just a few million dollars. Bill Gates, are you listening?
<p>Excessive college debt is certainly a problem for many students and an unaviodable one for some students. Amen to the latter.</p>
<p>However for many students the choice to graduate with oppressive debt is a choice, and usually a foolish one imho. For instance our son went into college with a $76,000 college fund and will be graduating with $50,000+ in the bank after paying tuition and academic fees. We are footing the $9000+ cost of on-campus room/board fees, some of which has been going into the tuition bill since he moved off campus at a savings of about $4,000/yr.</p>
<p>But I digress. Many students graduating with oppressive debt chose to attend a private college when a fine in-state public college was available to them. Others chose to attend a "reach" college when many fine match colleges providing significant merit aid were an option. Others eschew on-campus work opportunties available, and while no student should feel obligated to work 20+ hours/wk, most could squeeze in 12 hrs with good time budgeting. Hundreds of student athletes dedicate more time to their sport every week. Finally mom and pop can always assume some of the debt following graduation, particularly if they were instrumental in pushing for their student attending that sans-merit aid reach college and have been proudly sporting the oh so impressive decal on there SUV for the past 4 years.</p>
<p>So while I give a big booyah to those few students who have no option to graduating with big debt, I have far less sympathy for those who do so with other viable option available to them and their families.</p>
<p>Excessive college debt is certainly a problem for many students and an unaviodable one for some students. Amen to the latter.</p>
<p>However for many students the choice to graduate with oppressive debt is a choice, and usually a foolish one imho. For instance our son went into college with a $76,000 college fund and will be graduating with $50,000+ in the bank after paying tuition and academic fees. We are footing the $9000+ cost of on-campus room/board fees, some of which has been going into the tuition bill since he moved off campus at a savings of about $4,000/yr.</p>
<p>But I digress. Many students graduating with oppressive debt chose to attend a private college when a fine in-state public college was available to them. Others chose to attend a "reach" college when many fine match colleges providing significant merit aid were an option. Others eschew on-campus work opportunties available, and while no student should feel obligated to work 20+ hours/wk, most could squeeze in 12 hrs with good time budgeting. Hundreds of student athletes dedicate more time to their sport every week. Finally mom and pop can always assume some of the debt following graduation, particularly if they were instrumental in pushing for their student attending that sans-merit aid reach college and have been proudly sporting the oh so impressive decal on there SUV for the past 4 years.</p>
<p>So while I give a big booyah to those few students who have no option to graduating with big debt, I have far less sympathy for those who do so with other viable option available to them and their families.</p>
<p>For some kids and their parents, it is the education which is important and the cost is secondary. I don't think that an average debt of $20k is a big deal for 4 years of education. You can hardly buy a new car for that amount of money.</p>
<p>Sure it would be nice not to have that level of debt, but someone has to pay for the costs of education. State U's are not free or necessarily low cost. Taxes help to pay for them. The more kids who go, the higher the taxes will need to be. Taking advantage of low tuition at a State U may make sense for an individual, but in terms of society as a whole, that does not reduce the resources being allocated to education.</p>
<p>I do feel sorry for the student who has parents that are middle class+, and refuse to pay anything (b/c they are selfish, were foolish and lived beyond their means, divorce issues, believe that their parents did not pay so they won't either, etc.).</p>
<p>Edad, I know a young lady who has about $50k of debt after graduating. She does not have a well paying or even what I would call a "real" job. She so badly wanted to go to a local college that was very expensive, wanted to live there, and it was not a school that was going to give a $50K boost in opportunites afterwards. But she did love every moment there, and her only regret is that she had to take the loans to go there unlike some of her friends whose parents paid for the whole shebang. She will pay very dearly for her college years and for a long time, and who is to judge whether it was worth it, because, frankly, had she gone to a state school or any other cheaper alternative, her degree would have been just as lucrative (or unlucrative). But there is a value to happiness too. </p>
<p>And there are too many parents out there who still believe that the scholarship fairy is going to bless their child with whatever he needs to go to school. It's a big fat slap in the face, that when all is said and done, the final bill is about $20K a year even with generous aid the way costs at private schools have skyrocked. My neighbor said she paid over $50k for her son at a private college,and she isn't even counting after that mark. In addition to the COA, there were additional housing costs, they are overly generous with allowances, the kid is into cultural pursuits that do get pricey, he grew and needed new clothes twice, he is doing some great work that requires transportation, wants to go abroad this summer, and they like to visit and watch some of his accomplishments. All costs lots of money. Even a $20-30K award leaves a lot unpaid for somenone like this. A lot of penny pinching in addition is required to make it go if you are on a budget, both on the part of the family and the student. It can be a financial nightmare if you are not careful. I am scared at the numbers these days, and I started out some years ago with the goal of letting my kids go whereever they wanted and were accepted, and coming up with the money somehow.</p>
<p>Yep. For many famiies who are fortunate enough to be middle class, when the EFC turns out to be about $20-$30k, it's tough finding a school for less than that if you want them to go away for school. Even the state schools are running that high in some states. we are fortunate, in that our state is relatively low in cost, but going OOS brings the price to that range. If your student is not in the merit category (other than for token teaser amounts), it is not easy finding an affordable match. It's all well and good to point to the local Community or state college, but that may not be the step that is in everyone's best interest to take. In our case, going to the local CC would involve buying a car, and the expenses that go with this. Because of the remarkably low tuition here, it woud still be a savings especially if you pack the snacks,drinks and lunch some of the time. When you look at some private schools' commuter costs, they are way up there considering these kids are living at home. The cost of commuting is not cheap. And they have to eat while there are there. It also costs having them at home. Some of those southern schools have some real room and board bargains--cheaper than keeping them here, in my opinion. My friend with three in college pays for two in-state but away, and one private out of state away, and the cost for each of them is about the same with some aid thrown in and some merit for one of them.<br>
I do sympathise with the kids who are straddled with these high loans. Many of them took the best alternative at the time. IF mom and dad could or would not come up with money, and the family did not qualify for financial aid, and the kid was just not merit material or enough to make a difference (orinaloog, you do realize that you have a remarkable son?), if going away was the best next step to make, well, where the heck is the money going to come from? Living in the suburbs you gotta have a car many times to get anywhere and bus service is not provided for college like it is for highschool. I am telling you that the cost of driving is killing my oldest financially here, so it is no small expense, not to mention the risks of them having a car at that age. When they are away at school without a car, especially a school with lot of kids living there, it does reduce some risks. I'm rambling now, but you know my situation and search, Northeastmom.</p>
<p>edad, the point I was trying to make is that, with respect to college debt, it is not an either or situation. Excellent hs students can attend a college where they will receive an excellent education and be able to attend loan free. Does anyone doubt that Cur's daughter will receive a wonderful education at Rhodes College, have a fulfilling 4 years there and go on to bigger and better things afterwards? And her cost? Nada. Zip. Zilch.</p>
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<p>For many famiies who are fortunate enough to be middle class, when the EFC turns out to be about $20-$30k, it's tough finding a school for less than that if you want them to go away for school.<<</p>
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<p>Agree with you here, cptofthehouse. Although it would be nice to experience the "full college experience" by going away to college, sometimes families just have to bite the bullet and make the choice of Junior's living at home and commuting to the nearby college or going to community college for 2 years. Not as much fun, but the $$$ savings can be substantial.</p>
<p>I'm lucky to live in an area where the local Cal State is 20 minutes away and two UCs are within 1 hour's drive (if you drive off-peak hours). Also lucky to belong to a religious denomination that supports a large university that will cost about $12K a year (and that's including room and board). </p>
<p>But of course D chose to go away to a $$$ college and we are supporting her...but if we couldn't afford it, she would have had to take one of the options above. I guess I'm one of the middle class who had options...I know that some don't.</p>
<p>We have friends whose daughter is at Oberlin and will be graduating this spring.
$$$$$ right?
Especially when you consider they didn't qualify for any aid.
However- in high school she took a few running start classes and when she got out of high school she went to community college for to finish her two year certificate- living at home, total cost for tuition about $7,000 for two years of college credit.
She then volunteered with CityYear and earned an education stipend of $4,700- leaving her with just over $2,300 in loans.</p>
<p>Two years at Oberlin cost her & her family just under $100,000. However, since they make enough that she didn't qualify for any aid, and other wise yearly expenses would be about $47,000- the degree from a private college via community college, was fairly affordable.</p>
<p>My daughter attended a private college as well, that was equally as expensive, our EFC was much lower, and although we did have to borrow money to pay the EFC, her loans are about $10,000 ( she also did CityYear- although she did not have any college credit when she entered)</p>
<p>While not every student will be eligible for merit aid & not every student will attend a school that meets 100% of need, there are reciprocal agreements with public schools in neighboring states, so that you can attend out of state, yet at the same rate as attending your own instate university. there are a lot of choices-if we allow ourselves to look outside the box.</p>
<p>Originaloog, you are referring to a very elite club when you talk about opportunities for excellent hs students. Curmudgeon's daughter and your son are remarkable. Some of us don't have those choices because our kids are not going to get those great merit awards even from schools that are not well known, certainly not from the smaller schools where they will do best, given they are not RPI material. I carefully read the thread where a parent was able to go for a full ride for her kids, one who was not top fllight merit material, so there are some possibilities, but when you are also trying to get the best match for the kid, and these kids may not have the range that academically talented kids have in terms of what they need to perform optimally (and they need to do so, to do well ,as again ,they do not have the cushion top students do) many of those schools are not going to make the cut. Maybe Southwest Georgia A&M will give a merit award, state tuition differential and with the low sticker price and lower southern cost of living, it will be a cheap alternative, but I don't think this kid will thrive there. His best chance is a good LAC, but the cost is an issue. He may well end up commuting, but then I have the car thing, and even there, the local LACs have tuitions that are $20-30K in price. Community college here does not offer the social atmosphere--he will be taking some classes there, as his brother did, and it is strictly a commuter school with many parttime and non traditional students. If we could comfortably afford a private LAC, it would be a great option for him, as I have seen many kids like him do well in the smaller schools. We will consider stretching and, sigh, loans for us, not him. He is a bit young in many ways but I think the next best step for him is to go away to college as do the counselors and teachers who know him. But not a suitcase school or large uni.</p>
<p>Well, we have been pretty lucky so far. One kid in a State U and other is in a program that has reduced tuition to NYS residents.
Always felt pretty good that my kids probably won't be too much in debt and would not be "indentured graduates".</p>
<p>Did feel pretty good about it until a friend mentioned the idea that the "future spouse" might be in debt. Umm!! Might not luck out after all. </p>
<p>Kinda makes you understand why arranged marriages occur.</p>
<p>Captofthehouse, thanks for the compliment of my son but, while he is a good and conscientious, he is hardly remarkable by standards here. But I get your point.</p>
<p>But the key is research! You never know where good finaid will pop up. Our son got a $15,000/yr scholarship from the College of Wooster offered to members of the Presbyterian Church USA and only needed to get a letter from our pastor, though it is a competetive scholarship. He got a $12,000/yr merit scholarship from Allegheny College too. He also found that Dennison and Ohio Wesleyan were generous with scholarship money too though he didnt apply to the former. All are good LAC's and maybe worth a peek.</p>
<p>But the key is to find a good match college which will provide a finaid package covering almost all of EFC without an overabundance of loan based aid. If you are a typical family you should be able to cover the EFC without too much pain and your student will graduate without an overwhelming amount of debt. There are hundreds of colleges which fall into this category, your family just has to find a way to cover the EFC. The USNews online subscription($10+/-) will give you this data.</p>
<p>Like I said, the questions of oppressive student loans is usually a choice, and in many instances a bad one.</p>
<p>Thanks, Originaloog, and yes we will be checking out some of the very options you mentions. But in addition to the merit possibilities, we are looking at some low sticker prices too. Have picked up numerous ideas, thanks to parents like you who have given back after all of the research you did. I do not have to reinvent the wheel as many times, in looking. And Marny, what is this program that reduces costs for NY state residents? See, my ears are perked. (or my eyes,in this case)</p>
<p>3 of the schools at Cornell- ILR, Human Ec, and CALS (agriculture and life sciences). D is in ILR program.</p>
<p>Other less known programs with reduced tuition for NYS residents are -- SUNY Environmental/Science and Forestry. It is a SUNY program but the campus is adjacent to Syracuse and I believe the kids live and eat with SU kids and can take some classes at Syracuse.
Alfred U School of Ceramics is also affiliated with SUNY. School of ceramics is art based but also connected to their school of engineering. I've checked out the websites and they seem like interesting programs for the right kid. The tuition is more than SUNY schools but less than full freight. Cornell tuition in those three schools is around $18,000 for NYS residents.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, I have agreed with everything you have said. We have a similar situation to yours. I am not a Community college fan most of the time, although it is right for certain students. In our situation, we also would have needed to purchase a car b/c public transit is not too wonderful. We do not have this expense for this year and next year. We are not paying auto insurance for our son. He does not have a car. We were able to list him as an occasional driver for summers, and holidays. This is a large savings. He also never had his own car.
I looked for schools where public transit would be good. Also, you are right, living in the south can be cheaper. My son's R&B is reasonable. For families with EFCs between 20-30,000 it is tough, and less expensive publics (including OOS) become a solution. Even with merit aid at a school with a 42,000 price tag (not even talking about annual increases in COA), with 10-12,000 in merit aid, the cost is still 30-32,000/year to the family (ouch)! That cost rises each year for 4-5 years. Some of these families have these efcs b/c there is a moderate-large amount of home equity, and they cannot even borrow if they cannot meet those payments. The income would need to be there to sustain those second mortgage payments. Regarding merit aid, I keep reading about students being in danger of losing it. That creates more family expense, and a very large expense, should this occur (for whatever reasons).</p>
<p>You know, Northeastmom, you brought up a very important point regarding merit aid. It can cause a lot of stress if you are counting on it and your kid loses it. All too possible in our situaton, if he should be so lucky to get any.</p>
<p>This thread is so helpful. Zoosergirl got accepted about an hour ago at Rider University with the Dean's scholarship, which is $12k out of the $35k total package. We're thinking that since we can afford to pay $18k and she has a job making some nice money now with full-time plans over the summer, that $5k per year for her isn't an outrageous amount of money. Does that sound right?</p>