CaliCash, with all due respect, you are going to get yourself into hot water. There are laws that protect patients’ rights, as well as limitations on state educational practices. I would lay off this subject if I were you. Your tone in the last post is patronizing to this individual; rather than side with his written testimony, in which he explicitly states that he was obstructed, you are presuming that what the administration did was in his best interest, without any evidence to back that up that authoritarian position. And where is your evidence to suggest that the student would struggle more at a highly selective institution, rather than a lesser one, the latter whose potential deficiencies and obstacles were described upthread? You seem to not even be absorbing some of the points already iterated here.
@anhydrite Documentation wise, do you think that a personal statement, letters from doctors and counselor along with teachers who are fully aware of my ability in honors classes, and including my struggle in my essay would be sufficient? I can’t think of any other kinds of documentation to include.
Students with special needs ranging from health limitations, to ADHD, to dyslexia, etc. are sometimes taken out of the classroom and moved into a special ed classroom with a modified curriculum irregardless of intelligence or ability.
Universities are looking to create a well-rounded community. Including people with disabilities in that community is part of that mission. Way back in the day when I attended college, fellow students with disabilities seemed to be accommodated just fine but this was before a lot of our ADA awareness. Is there an online forum where students with disabilities can discuss their experiences with accommodations at the university level? Maybe you could start such a forum.
Yes, that sounds like a good package. You have the whole summer and fall to refine your application package. Some advisors may even indicate to send less. But at this stage, gather as much as you can. Hopefully your assistance will help you put together the package that shines the best light on you and your abilities. Summer is also a good time to do a little research on how others in your position have successfully gained admission to excellent colleges. They are out there.
@txstella – thank you. That makes more sense now. It seems we cross-posted, but I also agree that last presumption is insulting and patronizing.
@CaliCash I feel like you are starting to personally attack me. But I understand you don’t know my situation. I was in no way put in lower classes for my well being but because my administration was full of stupid people who constantly found ways to bend and break the law to their will. My disability has not compromised my mental acuity or intelligence and with accommodations so I could attend class, I would do fine. Sure, I will have some week-long absences due to flares which keep me in the hospital or bed bound, but I have dealt with that all through high school and still have managed to be successful. Sometimes I will need to play catch up but that is a reality that I am used to and is completely normal for me. Just because I have a disability, my opportunity for success should not be taken away. Yes if I was healthy I’m sure I would have higher grades, but I still have learned the same material and done so at a high level which is what I look to do in college. people with disabilities are guaranteed the same opportunities to succeed and saying that I am incapable of learning at a rigorous college on the basis of a disability is pure discrimination.
I have never said you are incapable of learning at a rigorous college. Thus I’m not discriminating against you OP or attacking you. I’m just trying to hold you to the standards that I would for a non disabled student asking for advice. Discriminating would be doing the exact opposite.
Obviously you have the right to be successful. I’m not saying you don’t. But colleges admit students based on whether or not they can be successful there. Don’t get on me about that. This has nothing to do with your disability. You and anhydrite keep bringing it up. It’s about your ability to make it to class. If you are going to be missing classes frequently, you should not put yourself in a position to be unsuccessful. I know models who travel and miss A LOT of school during the year. That doesn’t mean they aren’t smart and don’t have good grades. But if that model is gonna try to go to Harvard or another rigorous school, she’s gonna put herself in a bad position if she misses a lot of school. You won’t be able to just miss a weeks worth of class at an elite college and just bounce back like it never happened. Some professors won’t be as forgiving. Believe it or not, elite schools aren’t for everyone. That’s not to say you aren’t capable academically. Once again, I never said that. Your words, not mine. It just means it may not be the best fit. That’s all im saying.
To answer the questions you initially asked asked:
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Yes, there is a place for you to put your disability. You can put it in the additional info section, or leave it to the counselor.
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You’ve excelled trough your disability, so the outcome of your applications would likely be the same for a student without disabilities, maybe better.
As a side note, a rec from a doctor should be supplemental and should not take the place of a rec of a teacher who sees how you interact in the classroom and how you are as a student. Colleges care more about that. Good luck.
“Believe it or not, elite schools aren’t for everyone.”
These words used to be directed at women, people of color, the poor and the disabled. I thought we had moved way beyond this sort of rhetoric.
Dear OP, I think many elite schools would love to have such a well written, intelligent person on their campuses. Persevere and good luck. Stay strong.
Exactly my thoughts, txstella. I had even thought, what if you substituted “disability” with “women,” in the days before most of the elite schools in the U.S. went co-ed? The inflammatory posts would retain their same, flimsy logic. And with time, they would no longer be defensible.
Yes, OP: please continue along your educational path with determination. Don’t be dissuaded by those who can’t, or won’t, empathize with it.
This is getting out of hand. Calicash has a strong opinion, and in this case I don’t personally agree with it. But to say things like
*and *
*is being guilty of exactly what you accused Calicash of, which is not reading her posts. Elite schools are not for all women. Or all men, or all blacks or all Hispanics.That’s obvious, because saying that “elite schools are not for everyone” isn’t even close to saying “they aren’t for anyone that is an X”. To say that is coded language is patently ridiculous, especially since Calicash went out of the way to say that isn’t what was being said. I cannot find one instance of Calicash even implying that elite schools are not for the disabled. As s/he clearly said, s/he is only referencing the lack of AP courses in the OP’s schedule, and whether the OP will be able to keep up in a school full of students that mostly took a lot of AP classes. I think that is a bit too far given the circumstances, but it isn’t a crazy, completely unreasonable opinion.
I think that is up to admissions at each school to decide the OP’s preparedness based on the totality of the OP’s life experiences. Most schools, and possibly especially elite schools, routinely accommodate students with challenging conditions, if they feel like those accommodations are within their ability to provide and that the student is more likely than not to succeed when provided with those things. But let’s not go off the deep end trying to both shout down opinions we disagree with and creating bogus arguments the “provocative” person never made. Let’s focus on the OP’s questions and issues. If you disagree with Calicash or anyone else, just say you disagree and why and focus on what you think is useful advice. The OP is perfectly capable of sorting out what they think is worth paying attention to and what they think they should ignore.*
Not sure what prevents you from taking classes prior to 9:30 am, but I do think that needs to be taken into account when you chose your school. I don’t know what arrangements can be made if required classes are given at an earlier time. But just to get a heads up on the situation, I’d look at the current schedule of classes for fall 2015 and see when the classes you think you’d need as a freshman are offered.
Taking into account travel time to get to classes, you can see if there might be any issues. Often classes are given at the same time year after year. I’d want to be aware of this and see if it is an issue that can be resolved if necessary. I’d want to see how the school would address this kind of situation before you actually commit.
I haven’t read through the argumentative posts above (sorry) but I did want to respond to your situation because it struck a cord with me. A relative of mine suffers from a chronic illness and spent her entire high school career at home with teachers/tutors coming to her occasionally. She will be graduating from her public high school school next month. Her parents did an excellent job advocating her (the administration made it VERY difficult for her to say the least), but they persevered. She has been an excellent student and has overcome so much. I think the only class she had to actually attend was science so that she could get the lab credit. She is graduating this year. Because of her illness, she decided to apply to SLAC’s that are in state and relatively close to home even though she intends to live on campus. This way, if her health declines, her parents will be nearby to help her. She was very clear with admissions about her illness and spoke in depth to the schools about accommodations and I believe she did include it in her essay, as this is a huge part of her life. She was accepted to Scripps, Whittier, Occidental, Loyola Marymount, Chapman and waitlisted to Claremont McKenna. She’ll be attending Chapman in the Fall. She’ll have a single with a shared bathroom, so she’ll have a roommate of sorts, but she’ll have her own space and she’ll be able to adhere to her sleep schedule, etc. I guess what I’m saying OP is … You can do this! Don’t let anyone tell you any different.
@fallenchemist – thanks for your input. I respect your position as a moderator, and I have no wish to hamper discussion, nor potential candidates. I must politely agree to disagree with you here, and I have been trying to assist the OP in this thread before, and since, CaliCash began commenting.
There is an entire discipline within academia, as well as associated areas, already referenced in this thread – namely, disability studies, as well as legal scholarship devoted to these issues – that would take issue with some of CaliCash’s statements above. And some, vigorously so. This scholarship represents a valuable contribution to academic discourse, and deserves no less respect, consideration, or understanding than any other accredited academic discipline. To say that being admitted to a college is, for example, “about your [presumably physical, and not virtual] ability to make it to class,” to cite one statement, broaches legal issues wherein discrimination can and does arise. Most selective colleges and universities are well aware of accessibility issues; whether, and how much they choose to comply, is their own business, but it does not change their respective obligations for admitted students. And I have repeatedly stated that I believe this OP has the capabilities to be admitted.
Disability is precisely, by legal definition: (dis-) or (un-) able, to accomplish certain tasks deemed normative by society. The definition very much impinges upon a candidate’s status and lived experience. To claim otherwise is incorrect and potentially very damaging. Claiming ignorance does not exempt a violating party. Additionally, CaliCash may be considered a minor.
Unfortunately, some of the logical arguments used by CaliCash can be, and have been used in the past to discriminate against other groups, both legally and de facto. The underlying argument in post #19, for example, claims that isolating or obstructing a minority (here, a disabled student) automatically confers justice and rectitude to the party in authority: e.g., “BUT if he was been put in easier classes for HIS WELL BEING and has been advised AGAINST taking honors classes, it was done for a reason.” This very logic has indeed been used to segregate and obstruct other minority groups in the past. The pithy version of the argument is, “it was for their own good.” That does not fly legally. I am sorry I must spell this out, but arguments such as these are precisely why I mentioned what I did.
@anhydrite I’m going to have to stop you right there. I’ll get to OP’s situation in a moment, but your post requires separate attention. First off, you have blindly and wrongly interpreted CaliCash’s post. Yes, her opinion may be disagreeable, and yes, some of it can be argued against, but she has made some valid points. Elite schools look for applicants who will be able to shine on campus. It’s not that the OP is at fault, but the fact that he will go up against folks who’ve taken the most rigorous classes available will put him at a disadvantage (yes, it will).
Don’t bring legality to this discussion. By legal definition, under the 42 U.S. Code § 12102, the term “disability” means, with respect to an individual—
(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of such individual;
(B) a record of such an impairment; or
© being regarded as having such an impairment.
Not what is deemed “normative by society”.
It seems that you and the OP consistently raise the subject of disability, while CaliCash is just expressing her opinion, which, again, many will disagree with, but it consists of one valid point.
This thread does not concern minority groups, and is inclusive of ONLY THE OP. Post #19 was made under the assumption that the extent of the OP’s illness greatly affected his academic efforts (or rather, his intelligence). Not being able to take the hardest classes is not the OP’s fault. It seems that you are limiting this fact to disabled students, but this applies to EVERYBODY. Anyone who has NOT taken rigorous classes will NOT be able to adjust well at ELITE institutions. EVERYBODY. It doesn’t matter if they’re ill or not. This fact is not exclusive to disabled students.
Once again, anyone can attend elite institutions, just not the UNDERPREPARED. Get it? Underprepared. Disabled people can. Normal people can. Just not the underprepared people.
@bronzehorse11 I believe most of what is required has already been said. Just do your best, and try to express what you’ve faced and how you’ve overcome it (or overcoming it) through your essays. You’ll do fine. Try to consider what everyone said (everyone; anydrite, CaliCash, etc.). Do try to keep an open mind, and next time, explain the full picture. What limits you, what your current status is, etc.
Good luck.
If you want to admonish me, please elucidate the precedents that established 42 U.S. Code § 12102, and in particular, (A), in light of how one would define substantial limitations of major life activities. I would reckon they are established within the context of what are deemed normative.
And as I have mentioned in numerous posts – all without caps – if there are documented obstructions, or the school district does not provide appropriate access, the candidate may not be held liable for missing certain advanced classes.
I’m sure you can Google the precedents yourself, for the sake of your elucidation. As I’ve said above, this is not the place for legality.
Secondly, I was explaining what CaliCash was trying to convey. I am very well aware of your documentation comments.
Thirdly, you have wrongly interpreted my post as well. It is not the question of admissions, it’s a question of adjusting to the classes in elite colleges. If the OP has not taken advanced classes in school, how can he expect to adjust at college? Shouldn’t he find some other way to gain experience in the matter? It’s not holding the candidate liable, it’s the subject of him being to adjust and flourish.
I wish you would consider DarkEclipse, just for a moment, that there have been some major recent threads here on cc discussing adjustment issues, as well as requirements, for different categories of students. There are many students each year accepted to elite institutions from rural high schools, impoverished school districts, and other highly disadvantaged circumstances. Such students are not only accepted without some of the rigorous (e.g., many A.P. and advanced courses) coursework you insist upon, but some of these students perform exceptionally well once admitted:
"Anyone who has NOT taken rigorous classes will NOT be able to adjust well at ELITE institutions. EVERYBODY. It doesn’t matter if they’re ill or not. This fact is not exclusive to disabled students.
Once again, anyone can attend elite institutions, just not the UNDERPREPARED. Get it? Underprepared. Disabled people can. Normal people can. Just not the underprepared people."
If a student – disabled or otherwise – attends a school district where some of the advanced courses are offered, but they are legitimately prevented from attending such courses, not only will admissions committees recognize the obstruction, but they may also have good reason to give those deprived students an opportunity to perform in a more privileged educational environment. To argue categorically that students without access to specific courses or educational resources will not perform well at higher levels reinforces the argument that such students are inherently deficient or incapable, and do not deserve those slots.
And I wish that you, anhydrite, would stop antagonizing everyone else’s arguments.
I have never said this.
If you were only taught PreCalc in High School and I were to chuck you in to a College Level Calculus class, would you be able to adjust easily? I think not.
Exactly. Only some of them do. Not all. Some.
Such students also do not have chronic illnesses hampering them. A very few might, but certainly not a majority of them.
If you refer to my last post, I asked this question:
Is there no way for him to do this? The OP certainly is not dumb, a 3.85 GPA is nothing to sneer at.
I am trying to help the OP. You were as well, until you diverted from your original intention to criticizing everyone else who was opposing your thoughts.
Here’s some food for thought: There are a number of ways the OP can take advanced classes outside of high school. Every year, there are several applicants who boost strong applications, regardless of any illnesses (no disrespect here, this is simply a fact). You are correct in deducing that I meant to say that the lack of advanced classes would hurt him. Maybe you’re right, maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know. However, the OP is at a disadvantage, surely you can’t argue with that. And even with illnesses, there are others who find ways to make themselves stand out. I see nothing that makes the OP stand out, primarily because he hasn’t listed anything else.
Thank you for keeping this discussion polite. No sarcasm intended.
Have a good day.
Sounds like there are several different focuses. The OP is concerned about what he needs to disclose and how and how his record and disability will be viewed. Unlike Cali, he does not seem concerned about once he gets there (beyond navigating hilly campuses). To address some of the comments, it sounds like the OP is one of those people who is not an auditory learner (one of my family friends is like that) and therefore mostly learns by reading on his own. The friend in question who had no physical disabilities (other than liking to sleep late) basically deliberately took larger classes, did not attend and still ran a mostly straight A average in their major. The person chose a major that came easily to them and attended elite institutions for college and grad school. This was many years ago in pre internet days but it can be done. If the OP is confident, I do not think we should second guess him. As for APs, unless he wants to be in math or science it will not matter at all and even so my Calc course was so awful I doubt I did well on the AP. There are tons of classes that require no AP prep work. There are plenty of basic languages but those you have to attend because class participation is part of the grade and they move really quickly so one semseter can be a year and up of high school spanish or whatever.
I do think the OP has to do more research than the average student. Not just about accessability, course schedule times, hilliness (sounds like flat, maybe in a city is better), dorms, medical facilities, speaking to the ADA office at the school and current students in this situation. Your best clue on admissions and how supported you will feel is obviously in how these other students are treated, Also asking how medical absences are treated, is attendance (outside of seminars) a requirement? Is there a mechanism for someone to do notes for him (my family friend recommends getting notes from A-/B+ students in general, A/A+ stdents tend to do jots, which will not work if you are not there, A- students tend to have more complete notes, almost like being there. The professors outline is not a substitute for this in their opinion).
OP, one thing, I do think you either need to simply explain to colleges (not here, not asking) why a 7AM class is impossible or not mention that as a limitaion, although I agree that you should have much more flexibility in your schedule. Honestly I am surprised that the school was not required to create greater flexibility for you in terms of classes.The timing thing just strikes me as odd. I am sure there is a legitiatmate reason but I think that might have to either be explained or not discussed at all. Yes your guidance counselor should do it mostly.