<p>
[quote]
Looking only at CMC, Pomona, Pitzer and Scripps (Mudd is a special case) the primary difference is not so much the education at each of the colleges as it is the student body. Each school attracts a different kind of person.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Exactly, and that is the basis upon which each of the schools was originally founded. Pomona was an all around Liberal Arts College, Scripps emphasized art, music & humanities, Pitzer emphasized behavioral studies, Harvey Mudd emphasized science and engineering, and CMC emphasized government, business & econ. Different types of people went to each college based upon the different programs offered. Choosing between the schools is so much more than just picking which one has the highest SAT scores.</p>
<p>The 5C's are all different, there's no question about it. After a visit my D just decided that Pitzer was the right school for her. She went to a very small high school (185 students) and Berkeley was too big for her. With the financial aid offered by Pitzer (need-based, not merit), it won't cost much more than UCB would have.</p>
<p>For the record, she scored 2170 on the SAT, but didn't apply to Pomona. Who knows? She seems very happy with her choice of Pitzer.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Each Claremont College puts emphasis on the fact that although students can take classes within the Claremont Colleges"</p>
<p>Yet the emphasis is insidiously deceiving because there are not as much interaction among these schools' student bodies than these schools say.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>IPBear, are you a student, or was your experience limited to one visit? In four years, I experienced far more cross-campus interaction than is generally advertised, and my time in Claremont was all the better for it. Except for those who choose to limit their use of the consortium (and some do), I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone who would agree that the schools are "insidiously deceiving" when it comes to this issue (on the contrary, I generally think the consortium should be better explained and utilized in prospective student literature).</p>
<p>One thing I always ended up explaining to prospective students was that it's all but impossible to really understand the extent of cross-campus interaction until one becomes a Claremont student. Just my experience, but you might want to do some more asking around.</p>
<hr>
<p>
[quote]
The 5C colleges all present different attributes. While the students are not exactly interchangeable, it would be a mistake to believe that the differences in the "selectivity" [of the] student bodies are extremely noticeable; students are different and have different ... academic qualities.
<p>before you put a slamdunk on how bad pitzer is to pomona, just realize that regardless of where you get your degree, it is important for you to represent the school instead of the school representing you. Your achievements in college is what will take you farther; you just cant count on the brand name only.<br>
What is funny is that many of us at pitzer had to make decision between berk,ucla, ucsd and so on. It really was a decision based on LAC vs BIG university. Now i dont doubt that pomona kids may be "more academically driven"- i wont discount that, but like everyone on this board is saying, each of the 5c draws in a different type of student. So, be sure to check out if your personality fits well with that type of school <-- i believe i made a mistake on the school i selected, but i will see what happens.</p>
<p>Student615,
Different students have different experiences. When I visited, a lot of students at Harvey Mudd were complaining about not interacting much with students at other schools.</p>
<p>Wow, this discussion grew quickly.
A note about the testing differences with SAT and such: Pitzer is testing optional. Only about 50% of the applicants use standardized testing, so it is not a focus for the school. That being said, it would be tough to use that as the deciding factor between selectivity or academic reputation.</p>
<p>IPBear: Undoubtedly, different students do have different experiences. Saying what you do in post #27 vs. claiming, in general, that the schools are "insidiously deceiving" in their talk of cross-registration, cross-campus interaction, etc., and labeling that view as "the truth", are two very different things. Regardless, I'm sorry if that's the info you received in Claremont. Having a decent idea of how the consortium works, I can understand where those perspectives came from (and there's some validity there), but if they were presented to you the way you're presenting them to us, you were misled.</p>
<p>Not really the topic at hand, but an important point to clarify. Sorry for the tangent :)</p>
<p>Despite the lack of scientific foundation of this statement, I think it would not be insidiously deceiving to state that the overwhelming majority of Mudders would cherish as much interaction with the attractive and brainy Scrippsies as they .. can muster. In turn, I think that it's fair to state that Scrippsies do enjoy participating in academic and social activities on HMC's campus. After all, great parties do require a great company. </p>
<p>I guess it all depends how one defines ... interaction. :D</p>
<p>It should be noted that Pitzer's dramatic increase in selectivity from 2006 to 2007 is driven only in part by its increasing popularity. There has been a steady increase in applications, but the bulk of the selectivity boost stems from their decision to move from EA to ED. The committed students they now enroll ED has enabled them to cut the number of RD offers they make by a large margin.</p>
<p>"Wow, this discussion grew quickly.
A note about the testing differences with SAT and such: Pitzer is testing optional. Only about 50% of the applicants use standardized testing, so it is not a focus for the school. That being said, it would be tough to use that as the deciding factor between selectivity or academic reputation."</p>
<p>QFT.</p>
<p>Pitzer's average test scores reflect the fact they put very little stock in standardized tests for admission. I was flat-out rejected from Pitzer with a 34 act, and I got accepted at a supposedly higher rated school (Macalester).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Pitzer's average test scores reflect the fact they put very little stock in standardized tests for admission.
[/quote]
the thing about pitzer is that in addition to the standardized test, they are also looking for people that express interest in social justice Pitzer</a> College - Claremont, California<br>
I believe Ben Kramer did an excellent job of explaining "why pitzer"</p>
<p>whether you agree with the pitzer's mission statement is one's personal opinion.\
PM me if you want my opinion.</p>
<p>
[quote]
When I visited, a lot of students at Harvey Mudd were complaining about not interacting much with students at other schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My recent-Mudd-grad brother never had issues cross-registering with Scripps' music department for his vocal performance concentration, nor did his roommates have issues with their non-Mudd courses... Plenty of interaction. I think you talked to the wrong people.</p>
<p>My guess is that it boils down to "not interacting much" vs. "not being able to interact much." The majority of complaints, if they exist, should fall into the former category. The Mudder who sits on his own campus 24/7 will probably meet fewer 5C kids than, say, the Scrippsie who does the same. There are a few reasons for this (location is not least among them). </p>
<p>I have heard Mudders complaining about on-campus hum requirements, wishing they could cross-enroll more often, etc. The schools all have their own policies where this is concerned. But as for the courses that don't have to be taken at Mudd, clubs and organizations, dining hall, athletic facilities, random strolls around the campuses, pool use, parties, events...someone who's complaining too vehemently is someone who has either been very unlucky, or who isn't gettin' off his own butt.</p>
<p>That's why I do say that there's some validity to what you heard, IPBear--overall, and on a day-to-day basis, the average Mudder probably benefits less from (and/or sees less evidence for the existence of!) the consortium than the average Scripps/CMC/Pitzer student. But if the problem was presented as an insurmountable one, as something the students themselves couldn't do something about, or as something common to all of the campuses, I'd say you were misled. I can only base that on my own experience, and on those of friends (a fair number of Mudd students incuded).</p>
<p>One more point about standardized test scores of Pitzer applicants - as Junglebrain pointed out, only about 50% of applicants submit their SAT/ACT scores. Since Pitzer does not require these scores from applicants who are in the top 10% of the high school class or have an UGPA of at least 3.5, the conclusion is that the "top" applicants do not submit scores to Pitzer (or can choose not to). Certainly this must have some effect on the average SAT/ACT scores published by Pitzer.</p>
<p>Almost all 5Cs in the top 35% of liberal arts for acceptance rate (except Scripps). Obviously rankings differ given the criteria extends to peer assessment, faculty resources, retention rate, financial resources, etc.</p>