Class of 2009 Profile

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>usna09mom: the report IS dated....thus the results are questionable to their relavancy-which is what I have tried to convey. Again, too bad there isn't a replicative study that reflects current data! As with any study, it is only a snapshot....no one is taking issue here.
I cannot tell you to which group people were assigned- the study did not give the methodology or study design....certainly questions to which answers would be of interest to many.....and I take no issue as to female mids/cadets/etc....no one ever said they were not qualified or highly accomplished....my point, if I can restate it, is that they continue to fall into a "minority" catagory who's numbers the academy continues to make a concerted effort to increase.....that in no way reflects on their abilities, accomplishments, etc.....but it does place them into a group that is attractive to the academy (at this time at least)......the point to which I was agreeing to was the earlier statement that caucasian males continue to fall into the most competetive category precisely because they make up the largest volume of candidates all vying for the same limited seats........and that is the reality. Congradulate your daughter on her accomplishments and take pride in them....as we do.....and just as her school was in the top 100, and she was a varsity athlete and captain and all league and all state.....so was our school #16 on that same list (as has been in the top 20 for the last 4 years!!!!!)....and our son was varsity captain and earned 6 varsity letters and was also captain of another team and was a coach for yet another, and all conference, and all county, and scholar athlete x 4 years x 3 sports.....etc, etc.....JUST LIKE THE MAJORITY OF EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE THAT APPLIES TO THE ACADEMY...which is exactly my point.....the advantage your daughter has, if you are willing to consider it, is that being a female places her into an envialbe position of being in a catagory that the academy invests recruitment efforts and whose numbers they want to increase.......and may will argue so it should be......but lets face it, they certainly don't have to increase numbers in the white male group (forgive me all, if I am being blunt and not politically correct here).....that is the point of the post entered by "juniormom" and our experience as well, and one in which it looks like at least (2) B&G's cautioned us about....but don't take my word on it, seek the opinion of your B&G if you have doubts!!! Perhaps my outlook is pragmatic..... which is not to say that I agree for I am not one to afix labels....but I will hold to my opinion that parents, in particular, get way too hung up on (1) "the numbers", (2) "the numbers" and (3) "where does my kid fit in compared to the numbers" and (4) "but my kid is this and that compared to the other kids".......all I can say, as emphatically as I can, is that I am happy NOT to have been caught up in that unproductive cycle......it made our experience a little bit easier to deal with....but that is OUR experience and one that seemed to work for us.....I was only trying to caution those currently going through the process to keep focused on what is REALLY important, for the rest is simply not in our control in the long run! In the end there is NOT A SINGLE CANDIDATE THAT WILL ARRIVE ON I-DAY THAT HAS NOT EARNED HIS/HER SEAT THERE.....NO MATTER FROM A DIRECT APPT, FROM ANOTHER COLLEGE, NAPS, THE FLEET, FOUNDATION PROGRAMS......if that is pragmatic, then so be it.</p>

<p>15mbw: I could not agree with you more. In the end the kids have to be themselves, for there will be times that they will even question that....I agree that being supportive is the best a parent can, and should do....it is unfortunate that some lose focus of that. Like everything else, there needs to be a match...you said it perfectly....it a all about "what the academy needs," and I will carry that thought a bit further, "what the (army, navy, marines, airforce, merchant marines) needs"....fill in the blank. Hopefully we have prepared our kids well!
Best of luck to all-</p>

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<p>Regarding women as 'a "minority" catagory who's numbers the academy continues to make a concerted effort to increase" please consider the following:</p>

<p>What the Navy "needs" is female officers in the same proportion as in the fleet (heard this from a source at USNA). Earlier in this thread the statistics were posted that showed women make up 13.9% of the Navy and 6% of the Marine Corps. USNA is already 17% female.</p>

<p>Women will only continue to have any type of edge in admissions if the proportion of female applicants is lower than the proportion of appointees that the Navy feels is necessary to sustain an officer corp in the correct gender proporation to the fleet.</p>

<p>In other words, as the percentage of female applicants edges closer to 50/50 with male applicants, females will be the disadvantaged group.</p>

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<p>oiixxg:
Females will become the "disadvantaged group" only when the ratio of female applicants to target "reserved spots" (set-asides in the vernacular) exceeds the ratio of caucasian males to spots available for them.
CM</p>

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<p>No doubt the military needs women.....and thank goodness that there are dedicated young women who are willing to committ.....and academies that are opening their doors wider for them each year. </p>

<p>One final thought for the day before I head back out into this oppressive heat....</p>

<p>I just want to thank everyone who posted here for a really great discussion....I can't help but admire the "parents" that work, guide, mentor and support behind the scenes....you have been invaluable these last few months in helping at least this parent to understand the inner workings of the academy application process, and for that I am very grateful, so thank you! </p>

<p>Bill0510...a special note of thanks for your candor and straightforward approach to answering questions...it is to our benefit that you are in the right place at the right time to set the record straight with advice that is always on the money!</p>

<p>So off I go back to Bed,Bath and Beyond for another elusive search for fitted sheets, twin extra-long....thank goodness the USNA is just 10 months away (bedding included!) </p>

<p>Best of luck to all!</p>

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<p>I agree with all that has been stated. Our son is so pleased with his alternative choices and we are happy with his decision. I do think some misinterpreted my comments. We have female friends at the academies right now and are very supportive of their acomplishments and we absolutely support the state distribution of candidates. It is an amazing and selective process! Our son learned so much about himself in the process that he has reflected back upon it several times.</p>

<p>An example of what has troubled us is a female candidate we know that did not follow the application protocol, talked to some at the academy on more than one occasion and told them she was no longer interested, she continued to be called to be reminded to finish her essay and paperwork and finally she did so. She received an appointment in the process. (Paperwork was due after 30 days and it was completed instead of July in late February.) She was pursued by B&G and the academy etc. while male candidates in our area with higher academics and ec's were turned down and they complied with the admissions protocol. We have never said anything about it until now but it was difficult to swallow. She did not accept her appointment.</p>

<p>My only concern is that another caucasion male does not have to hear directly from those involved in promoting the academies that they do not fit the profile (all other things being equal). Our son never lost sight of his hopes in spite of what he saw happening and to his credit maintained a friendship in the process. There is also frustration around student academics being too high for the Foundation so for some this does not become an option to help future admission either. Anyway...life gives us many choices and there are many paths to a career in the Navy...to all the applicants, explore them all! </p>

<p>Anyway, no offense to the parents of women plebes we were (my husband and I, not our son) just surprised to see this so blatently displayed hopefully it will not happen to others especially so directly anyway. Best of luck to all as I sign off and of course GO NAVY...BEAT ARMY!!!!!</p>

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<p>cm,
Could you clarify your statement, "Females will become the "disadvantaged group" only when the ratio of female applicants to target "reserved spots" (set-asides in the vernacular)." Are you saying that female applicants are considered "reserved spots...set-asides?" I thought that category applied only to marginally qualified recruited athletes, and under-represented minorities. Does USNA make public the application data by gender?</p>

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<p>Juniormom-
I have heard your story before, unfortunately....while I don't believe that the ends always justify the means, I suppose somehow the academy has to achieve its objective of diversity, and no doubt female admissions get scrutinized along with the other groups.....but one would think that so much proding to get the application is an indication as good as any other that the candidate is just not that interested.....male or female!</p>

<p>I was not aware of academics being "too high" for the foundation program.....at one point we were given profiles of some of the candidates from a previous class and I have to say their bio's blew me away.....we also heard that it is a way to red-shirt athletes and that it is a common practice amongst the academies ....I can't confirm that, nor were we ever told this from anyone at the academy, its just some of the "stuff" we heard along the way. </p>

<p>I can appreciate all that you have said....I guess I keep coming back to the number of candidates that get admitted each year with 1-2 years of college under their belt.....so all is not lost if that is where your son wants to go.....as I mentioned earlier, our son turned down a direct admitt to USMA and alternate USMMA to accept the extra-year foundation sponsorship as his goal was the USNA.....I know we were encouraged to consider classes that would approximate those taken in the plebe year...calculus, chemestry, english literature and history to name a few....the admissions office also advised to continue with a foreign language as they are pushing that in their curriculum. What we did learn from other parents in the USNA parent's club that had taken the college route for a year, and in one case 2 years, they were eventually offered an appointment and have done well, both able to validate out of several of their classes during that first year.</p>

<p>Has your son decided on where he will be going? Whatever his decision, the very best of luck!</p>

<p>As for me, absolutely NO luck finding those d*** sheets.....they are proving to be a hot item around here-go figure!</p>

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<p>The simple fact is that many of the female candidates that accept appointments to West Point and Annapolis were also accepted to other top tier Universities (Yale, Harvard, Berkeley, etc). In each of those Universities there is also the desire to attract a certain amount of diversity to their ranks. It is equally true that for each of these schools, both public and private there are a number of applicants who are not admitted, though by their own estimation they are equally qualified. That's just a fact of the world around us. Life is not fair to every one, every time. I don't think anyone can really know that any of the men and women who earn appoinments don't deserve them, any more than any of us can know that all those who didn't get admitted didn't deserve to. Any quota to fill spots with women isn't any more significant to the admissions process than the quota that specifies that cadets must come from every state in the Union. This diversity makes the Corps of Cadets much stronger, it certainly doesn't result in a class less qualified. .
Looking at the class of 2008 profile for West Point, 52% of the qualified males were offered appointment, 51% of the qualified females were offered appointments. It doesn't look to me like West Point is trying to force more females into the equation--in fact, it appears a qualified male had a slightly better chance of receiving an appointment than a qualified female.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your posts...so glad that your son has an opportunity at the foundation. Perhaps they will meet someday in the fleet!</p>

<p>This may help you find sheets...try uparents.com ...they provide packages for dorms with the extra long sheets, matress pads etc. It was a snap to order and we had them in a week via UPS. Our son reports in two weeks and this seemed easier than driving all over looking for things although I imagine he has to take more than your son.</p>

<p>I'll send you an email! Best of Luck and hope you find those sheets!</p>

<p>JM</p>

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<p>Shogun...you are correct in all said. I imagine that if you saw the reverse happen to your daughter it would be difficult to swallow too. It would have been equally as hard if what we observed was with any candidate male or female. Motivation is essential to success anywhere! For us it's not about the appointment at all. It is more about what we saw happeneing in the process and it is no different than when I am "encouraged" to hire staff focusing on these same qualities. The only difference in my position is that I am encouraged to hire men because of our predominately female workforce. Always irony in any situation. :-)</p>

<p>Best of luck to all applying, sweating through the summer and those heading our for college or ROTC in the next few weeks!</p>

<p>Have a great rest of the summer!</p>

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<p>USNA09 Mom:</p>

<p>My response was to oiixxg's statement that females will become a "disadvantaged group" as the number of female applicants increases.</p>

<p>I do believe that female spots are reserved. It has been stated on many threads, on many occasions, that the target population of females in the Academy is an approximation of the percentage of females in the fleet. Allowing for separation along the way, I believe that the goal is somewhere around 25% admitted as plebes.</p>

<p>Please do not misunderstand; I know many very well qualified female midshipmen. Their credentials would astound you!! Those who are committed to serve our country should be congratulated, along with their male counterparts.</p>

<p>By the same token, many highly qualified females, who have little interest in serving the military, are actively recruited. (Read JM's post above).</p>

<p>It is very disheartening to be the parent of a highly qualified male applicant who wants this with all his heart watch as another applicant who is disinterested is pursued, while the male is overlooked and ultimately passed over.</p>

<p>Now, as an adult, I know that life is not fair; that politics often dictates opportunity rather that credentials alone, and that disappointment is a fact of life. Just be sure to tell it like it is.</p>

<p>I have the highest respect for all of those who have chosen this path, and keep them in my prayers every day. Our freedom depends on their sacrifices.
CM (Class of '08 Mom)</p>

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<p>Navy2010:
Try JC Penny for sheets. I just got a flyer filled with dorm essentials.
CM</p>

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<p>CM ~ You have stated very succinctly what I have been unable to effectively communicate. Many Thanks! JM</p>

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<p>news flash: sheet success!!! Penneys came through- so thanks so much!</p>

<p>CM: you hit the nail on the head, once again.
Son is attending lax camp in Delaware next weekend-he is going to stop in ANnapolis to "take it all in"....actually, glad to see the desire strong, and might be a good "mental picture" to take back to his foundation school.....
best regards to all going through it this summer!</p>

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<p>I haven’t posted on this board for a little while, but I love checking out the USNA threads. Just had some quick thoughts…</p>

<p>There were a few postings here that stuck out to me, especially because they were also praised for what was basically an exaggeration…I’d thought I might add another perspective…maybe it will help someone with their application process this year. </p>

<p>I am 17, a white female, applied for c/o 2009, was very “heavily involved in sports, clubs, academics, community service, etc.” USNA was my dream since pretty much before I entered HS, went to NASS & absolutely loved it, aced the B&G interview, got my nomination, etc. </p>

<p>Unfortunately I had a few medical waiver hang-ups. They tried to call me on my eyes…when I scheduled another appointment it was found that DoD-MERB had received skewed results. I was eventually cleared…I think early Nov.’04. Alright I had another need for a waiver – a request for more medical information to clear me medically. Alright, easy enough. I had gone to a therapist-type thing in 6th grade during custody issues/other home environment problems – was diagnosed at the time w/anxiety-depression. DoD-MERB, until they have papers & rebuttals to reverse it, label that as “history of a mood disorder.” I was told to send all necessary paperwork/records to the USNA med. desk as this was up to their jurisdiction. They received everything on Dec. 12. From that day on I checked my “pending” waiver status online everyday…sometimes 2x because the thing is updated every 10 min. </p>

<p>USAFA cleared me in early March. They forwarded their findings to USNA. Great…triple-Q’d for AFA. I had decided earlier that, because USNA was where I really wanted to be, I would not complete my USAFA application so as not to take an appointment from someone that wanted it more than me. </p>

<p>USNA never cleared me. In fact my application was not even thoroughly reviewed…that’s what my rejection letter told me. The “waiver kids” didn’t even get looked at (in many cases, as I imagine). My squad buddy from SS that I keep in touch w/ had the same thing...waiting on a waiver to clear when the Academy had four months to skim through paperwork to make their jurisdiction. My friend is at BCT for USAFA right now. </p>

<p>Though I realize the review processes of the academies differ, I was surprised when my medical file was not looked at by USNA. This post caught my eye:
“Where else can you find such a rich sharing of ideas than at the academies that enroll candidates from every area of the country, regardless of economic or social strata? I can't imagine a system that could be fairer in it's process.” - navy2010 </p>

<p>“fairer?” There were assertive agreements to the USNA system being fairer. Ok, but not all of “[its] process.” </p>

<p>Is it FAIR to turn away candidates whose admissions files were not even looked at? Like a lot of candidates, I pumped hours and MANY late nights into that application process and my waiver difficulties. All my friends were jealous of the “Navy” time I felt was so important to spend in order to get my dream (I call this reluctant prioritizing). I did this all on my own too. I was the one who did my application, made all the calls to the Med Desk & DoD-MERB, set all the Dr. appointments, made all the re-appointments, probably close to a 100 B&G emails, checked the USNA threads, everything. I felt I deserved a glance. I certainly felt cheated when I got the rejection letter. I was blown away that the time and energy I had spent on my admissions process was a WASTE…I mean, my file did nothing for me. I do not know whether I was good enough, or what I should improve upon for future admission attempts. And because I already knew a lot about disappointment, I am not able to say that I learned that life has disappointments. </p>

<p>While there are some on this thread praising the “pragmatic” Admissions Board, think about this…This is the U.S. Naval Academy…and YES, they can most certainly do better in their admissions process. </p>

<p>I will wholeheartedly agree with candidate mom though, “Now, as an adult, I know that life is not fair […] and that disappointment is a fact of life. Just be sure to tell it like it is.” emphasis on NOT FAIR. </p>

<p>I apologize for the long post and for maybe coming off as bitter…but like I said, USNA was my dream and I was definitely persistent. The USNA way is still what I want more than anything, so that’s why I’ll reapply for c/o 2010, meanwhile I am headed off for school and will be doing NROTC. I just wanted to explain how my 1st application experience left me feeling cheated by admissions. I could have dealt with being turned away because others are more qualified in the eyes of the Ad. Board, but I cannot understand why I did not have the chance to get my file looked at.</p>

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<p>Bria ~ Wow... we had heard a few waiver stories too. Someone we know got her waiver to AFA cleared about 5 days before she left. I wonder if eye waivers all got looked at. My son's letter didn't indicate that it hadn't and encouraged reapplication but who knows. Where are you doing NROTC? I hope you have a wonderful experience and perhaps you will enjoy it as much as others have and decide that it's the route to being a Naval Officer that you want to continue. Best of luck to you and don't give up your dreams! JM</p>

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<p>Bria</p>

<p>"In fact my application was not even thoroughly reviewed…that’s what my rejection letter told me." </p>

<p>You actually got a letter from the USNA that stated your application was "not" thoroughly reviewed and therefore you were rejected? If it's not too much trouble, could you post the quote from that passage in the letter? I find that an incredible statement! Did you call admisssions and ask them why they did not review your application? I know that every time my daughter called admissions with a question or emailed them she got a response. I noticed you never mentioned actually calling anyone at admissions. is this correct? As I understand it, the only way admissions would not look at a file is if they deemed it "not complete". If that was the case, the ONLY way you would ever have been able to determine that and correct it would have been to call them. Someone else please correct me, but I never saw any part of the NAVY CIS that dealt with waivers (my daughter needed an eye waiver)---how would Bria have looked that up except through the link to the DodMerb site? Shouldn't her medical info have been submitted to dodmerb, not through admissions?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

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<p>My son also needed a waiver. I believe that vision waivers go through an "automatic" system; once the disqualification for vision is issued, all vision candidates are put into a pool for further consideration. Someone correct me if I am wrong, please.</p>

<p>In my son's case, however, the directions on the disqualification form indicated to apply directly to the chief medical officer at USNA (not to DoDMERB). Everything we sent was sent via certified mail, return receipt. He received a letter directly from USNA in early November, stating that his medical situation would not prevent him from receiving an appointment.</p>

<p>With respect to NROTC, however, DodMERB continued to disqualify him, and we continued to sent supporting medical reports to them. He had received a full NROTC scholarship, and he continued to pursue it in case, at the last minute (like on I-day) he was disqualified from USNA. (Those things can happen). In late May, he received notice that he was medically qualified for NROTC.</p>

<p>Not once did he call his BGO, or USNA admissions, or even DoDMERB. We just kept following the directions and submitting more forms. We probably spent an easy $100-$150 on postage alone. We kept copies of everything we sent and put sticky notes indicating to whom and when each form was sent.</p>

<p>So my point is, it depends on the avenue one is pursuing, as well as the type of waiver needed.</p>

<p>Good Luck to All.
CM</p>

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<p>Bria, I"m sorry for all you went through. I can't imagine how disappointed that would be. It does seem incredible that the USNA would state that they hadn't reviewed your file. However, DODmerb can be incredibly slow. I know there were kids at NAPS that had waiver issues that needed clearing and it really came down the wire. Before I would submit my new application, however, I would call admissions and have them look into your file so you can see what deficiencies you need to correct (if any). Definitely stay on top of it the whole way. I know my daughter had issues with her letter, contacted the Dean of Admissions and he returned her call. So, I think they do take the time to be as fair as possible. But, with numbers, it can certainly be reasonable to have some fall through the cracks. Best of luck to you this year and beyond.
NAPS05mom</p>

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<p>Where are you doing NROTC?</p>

<p>I’ll be doing NROTC at UCLA :D</p>

<p>You actually got a letter from the USNA that stated your application was "not" thoroughly reviewed and therefore you were rejected?</p>

<p>The letter stated that the applications of all applicants with waivers still pending were not ever thoroughly reviewed. </p>

<p>Did you call admisssions and ask them why they did not review your application?</p>

<p>How it was explained to me by my BGO & the people at the Med Desk was that they don’t review you unless the medical desk has found time to look over the paperwork they’ve requested you send and clear your condition. </p>

<p>I noticed you never mentioned actually calling anyone at admissions. is this correct? </p>

<p>No, I called a number of times. Each time I was told something similar to “You should know by mid-April, sorry I can’t tell you too much more than that.” I figured that I would then know if they would clear or disqualify me. Then, if cleared, I would find out whether I was admitted.
Files are deemed “not complete” unless the candidate is triple-Q’d. I was yet to be medically qualified. </p>

<p>Someone else please correct me, but I never saw any part of the NAVY CIS that dealt with waivers (my daughter needed an eye waiver)---how would Bria have looked that up except through the link to the DodMerb site?</p>

<p>Yes, I hit up the link from CIS to the DoD-MERB site to check my waiver status. Everyday…I think...except on a Spanish club trip to Costa Rica.</p>

<p>Shouldn't her medical info have been submitted to dodmerb, not through admissions?</p>

<p>Like CM said it depends on the type of waiver needed. Eye waivers, for example, are handled through DoD-MERB. I mailed my papers to both entities for this case. USNA had the jurisdiction on this decision. USAFA cleared me…so it seems they’re a little bit more efficient in their waiver review process?</p>