Class of 2009

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
61

<p>The question raised in this thread was whether excessive drinking disproportionately colors the social scene at Williams. My son, his friends, the children of several posters, recent alums and current students who regularly post all emphatically agree: 0-4 drinks per night is the norm at Williams. This was also the conclusion of the consultants. They also said that there are students (not the majority) who drink too much to the extent that they may cause harm to themselves and others. No one disputes this statement, but the degree of abuse and the effect of abuse is far less than the perception. Thus, Williams is trying to help abusers and to divert the perception. This is good!</p>

<p>Other colleges have same or different issues are not so forthcoming or transparent about resolving them. How can we compare substance abuse at Williams to Colgate, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Dartmouth etc. when these schools haven't the courage to get their dirty laundry in public? The online Williams Record which is the source of so much Williams bashing is lively, opinionated journalism. We all know bad news makes a better story than all-is-well. </p>

<p>To say that Williams is a wonderful school, with topnotch academics in a beautiful natural environment BUT that excessive drinking negates these positives is just flat out wrong! It shows a basic lack of understanding of the campus atmosphere and the character of the typical Williams student. The work hard / play hard image is correct, but the distortion involves what Williams kids do to play. Time out from academics definitely includes active, social interaction but it does not widely include excessive drinking or drinking at all.</p>

62

<p>From the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/Reports/Parents/default.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/Reports/Parents/default.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/Reports/TaskForce/TaskForce_TOC.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/Reports/TaskForce/TaskForce_TOC.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>A Snapshot of Annual High-Risk College Drinking Consequences
The consequences of excessive and underage drinking affect virtually all college campuses, college communities, and college students, whether they choose to drink or not.</p>

<p>Death: 1,400 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die each year from alcohol-related unintentional injuries, including motor vehicle crashes (Hingson et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Injury: 500,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are unintentionally injured under the influence of alcohol (Hingson et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Assault: More than 600,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking (Hingson et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Sexual Abuse: More than 70,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are victims of alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape (Hingson et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Unsafe Sex: 400,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 had unprotected sex and more than 100,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 report having been too intoxicated to know if they consented to having sex (Hingson et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Academic Problems: About 25 percent of college students report academic consequences of their drinking including missing class, falling behind, doing poorly on exams or papers, and receiving lower grades overall (Engs et al., 1996; Presley et al., 1996a, 1996b; Wechsler et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Health Problems/Suicide Attempts: More than 150,000 students develop an alcohol-related health problem (Hingson et al., 2002) and between 1.2 and 1.5 percent of students indicate that they tried to commit suicide within the past year due to drinking or drug use (Presley et al., 1998). </p>

<p>Drunk Driving: 2.1 million students between the ages of 18 and 24 drove under the influence of alcohol last year (Hingson et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Vandalism: About 11 percent of college student drinkers report that they have damaged property while under the influence of alcohol (Wechsler et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Property Damage: More than 25 percent of administrators from schools with relatively low drinking levels and over 50 percent from schools with high drinking levels say their campuses have a "moderate" or "major" problem with alcohol-related property damage (Wechsler et al., 1995). </p>

<p>Police Involvement: About 5 percent of 4-year college students are involved with the police or campus security as a result of their drinking (Wechsler et al., 2002) and an estimated 110,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are arrested for an alcohol-related violation such as public drunkenness or driving under the influence (Hingson et al., 2002). </p>

<p>Alcohol Abuse and Dependence: 31 percent of college students met criteria for a diagnosis of alcohol abuse and 6 percent for a diagnosis of alcohol dependence in the past 12 months, according to questionnaire-based self-reports about their drinking (Knight et al., 2002).</p>

63

<br>


<br>

<p>Momrath:</p>

<p>I totally agree with what you have written and I believe that Mini, who is professionally involved in the field, would agree as well. Nobody is suggesting that the "binge drinkers" at Williams constitute a MAJORITY of the student population. That's never been the issue.</p>

<p>The issue that defines the "alcohol culture"' is the size of the MINORITY that binge drinks and the behavior associated with binge drinking. When Mini or Morty Shapiro or the alcohol consutants suggest that Williams has an alcohol problem, they are saying that the size of the binge drinking population (while not a MAJORITY) is a significant MINORITY and that their behavior is dangerous and/or disruptive to the campus community.</p>

<p>The size of the binge-drinking MINORITY does vary from campus to campus. That is why some schools are perceived to have an alcohol problem or "drinking culture" while other schools are not. It would be almost impossible to find a school with NO binge drinking population. However, the size of the binge drinking population and their behavior at some schools is such that it does not become a visibly dominating aspect of the campus culture in a way that is instantly apparent to pre-frosh overnight visitors and/or incoming freshmen in their first weeks on campus.</p>

<p>Part of the problem at Williams is that the majority of students (who are not binge drinkers) are NOT standing up and saying, "This is unacceptable behavior. This is NOT the environment we want on our campus. Stop it!" This is where the widespread denial (or "mythology" as the alcohol consultants called it) becomes an enabling influence making efforts to curtail the dangerous, disruptive binge drinking very difficult. Ultimately, increasingly stringent sanctions from the administration are only marginally effective. What really IS effective is for the student body to establish its own clear community standards.</p>

64

<br>


<br>

<p>This is really the crux of the problem I have with what Mini and ID have to say about Williams' alleged reputation as a drinking school. There is no data that can demonstrate that there is a difference in binge drinking from campus to campus, or what that difference might be. To quote from the 10/19 Record article they have been citing so freely: "The need for data collection through a survey was stressed from the beginning of the consultants' visit, and figures to be their most immediate legacy." Dean Roseman went on in the next paragraph to acknowledge that she had no data base with which to perform a comparative analysis with other NESCAC schools. There is no quantifiable basis for Mini and ID to assert that Williams has a unique problem. Mini will bring up the 80 visits to the health center in five years for "alcohol poisoning," but I'll address that, once again, when the time comes.</p>

<p>ID also said:
"the size of the binge drinking population and their behavior at some schools is such that it does not become a visibly dominating aspect of the campus culture in a way that is instantly apparent to pre-frosh overnight visitors and/or incoming freshmen in their first weeks on campus." Once again this is so misleading that it borders on irresponsible. It was not "instantly apparent"...or ever apparent...to me, or any of the other parents I know, nor to our kids. ID heard a second-hand story, the details of which he never learned, that some girl his daughter knew said the drinking was crazy. OK, crazy compared to what? Colgate? Bowdoin? BU? I happen to think that Beirut/BeerPong is crazy, and I don't approve of it, but it seems to be endemic to most schools in the east. I had never heard of it before last year (and I'll bet the freshman girlfriend of your daughter hadn't either), and it seems crazy to me.. But that doesn' make it a reason to foster an image of Williams as uniquely alcoholic, which you do.</p>

<p>In your last paragraph, ID, you mention the need for students to say "this [binge drinking] is unnacceptable behavior), in order to change the drinking culture. I agree. And that would make Williams unique, from what I can tell, among most elite schools in the east. But you imply that that would simply bring them back up to the norm, which is inaccurate and unfair.</p>

65

<p>I located the consultants' website, and did a little reading. It appears that the Record erroneously recorded the name Alan "Horowitz," when it should have been "Berkowitz." Some will no doubt attribute this to drunkenness on the part of the Record staff, but pollyanna that I am, I'm guessing they just made a mistake. Sokolow is a lawyer specializing in college liability issues, Berkowitz is a psychologist who recently joined him. His specialty is "sexual assault prevention."</p>

<p>No, I have no intention of questioning their expertise. I'm glad the college sought their advice. But I do a fair amount of public speaking myself, on a variety of topics. And although I always research my subjects and audiences each time, there is a fair amount of boilerplate verbiage that goes from place to place, just because it works and there's no need to change it. So, when I see a word like "hegemonic" uttered by consultants, my inner buzzword-detector goes off. Not because it was inappropriate, but because it is in fact a buzzword that is used over and over by speakers addressing "cultures and how to change them"...just google the word, and you well find papers on hegemonic you-name-it. My point is that the word "hegemonic" should not be breathlessly pointed at over and over in the Williams Record article as evidence that Williams is somehow unique. I would venture that Sokolow and Berkowitz have used that word at dozens and dozens of campuses that have sought their advice on student drinking.</p>

<p>According to their website, they do visit dozens and dozens of colleges, for various reasons, one being student drinking. One of their programs is entitled "Changing the drinking culture on the College Campus." From the website description:</p>

<p>"Dozens of colleges have attempted to break the hold of alcohol over their campuses. Dozens of colleges have failed. Is going dry the right answer? Getting rid of the Greek system? Will that really reduce risk, or just transfer it? What other approaches are available, and how effective are they? This session is a how-to recipe for colleges that truly desire to change their cultures, and don't want to fail as so many others have." Half-day or Full-day program....what do you want to bet that they describe drinking cultures as "hegemonic" now and then?</p>

<p>I'm busy, but I will try to post serially on this later, as I have time, as it was pretty interesting.</p>

<p><a href="http://ncherm.org/newsletter-spring04.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ncherm.org/newsletter-spring04.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

66

<p>I've no doubt that the alcohol culture varies significantly from college to college. To what degree drinking dominates the culture at Williams is of interest to me because I have been looking at Williams as a possible good fit for my kid - if drinking is not a defining part of the culture. That's why I've started following this thread and will continue to follow with interest. </p>

<p>There are some seemingly objective reports of programs that have been effective in diminishing campus drinking problems. The news summary below talks about one:</p>

<p>Study Sees Less Drinking at Colleges with Prevention Policies
9/21/2004
A new study finds that colleges with multiple alcohol-prevention policies on and off campus have a lower drinking rate and reduced alcohol-related problems, according to the American Medical Association (AMA).</p>

<p>The study by the Harvard School of Public Health evaluated A Matter of Degree (AMOD), a program from the AMA that is funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0,1854,574682,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0,1854,574682,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

67

<p>SV2-
I agree, I think the culture varies. But I don't know how to quantify the differential.</p>

<p>I live in the heart of the "Main Line" suburbs of Philadelphia, surrounded by top prep schools and excellent public high schools. College is a huge subject of conversation around here, and Williams is a top favorite. There are roughly 24-30 kids from the Main Line area at Williams, and I never once heard anyone voice concern that Williams was a "drinking" school, much less heard of anyone turning it down because of it. I did hear concerns voiced about other top schools. I never heard that about Williams until Mini and ID started making pronouncements here on CC, fueled, apparently, by articles in the Williams Record. I would not have thought a message board could have had such power, but we're approaching 2000 hits on this thread already. What are your perceptions of Williams re drinking, and where did you acquire them? Just curious.</p>

68

<p>
[quote]
What are your perceptions of Williams re drinking, and where did you acquire them? Just curious.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My perceptions: Williams has a problem with alcohol that may be greater than at some of the other institutions on our tentative list. Williams has two identified "risk factors" for alcohol being a bigger problem: the athletic focus and the NE location. Perhaps the physical isolation contributes to the problem. Whether alcohol plays a role in Williams culture dominant enough to eliminate it from the ultimate list is an open question. We will visit Williams and I will recommend my kid consider applying, but I can predict that in the end she will be strongly influenced by the impressions she gains from an overnight stay and the particular students she meets, as serendipitous, and perhaps as inappropriate, as that is.</p>

<p>I first became clued into the alcohol problem on campus by coming upon the series of articles in the Williams newspaper. I've also read the messages by Interesteddad, Mini, Momrath, you and other posters. I've talked with some contacts who are relatively recent graduates of the school. I find all of these sources valuable in their own ways. </p>

<p>I appreciate that Williams as an institution appears to be openly discussing and addressing the problem, and I will be watching to see what measures they take and what the results are. I find the anecdotal testimonies here useful, too, because they flesh out the story and give me hints as to what to look for and how to guide my kid's approach to looking at Williams, in particular, and campuses in general.</p>

69

<p>I found Driver's comments about the consultants extremely interesting. I was hesitant to post this as I know I'll get trounced, but I also bristled at the word "hegemonic". These guys are in the business of fixing problems; for sure they are going to find problems. I think they were surprised that the problem as perceived was less than the actuality. </p>

<p>I always find The Williams Record entertaining (try reading some other campus on-line rags for pure Pollyannaism) but feel that The Record's clarity and accuracy are sometimes on the fuzzy side.</p>

<p>One of my son's friends was involved in the discussions with the consultants. He is an extremely thoughtful kid, not an athlete and without doubt a light drinker. He's about as close as Williams comes to political activism (not their strong suit) and is involved in a lot of campus government issues. I would say unequivocally that he cares deeply about Williams and he would not be at all shy about standing up to anyone that he felt was harming Williams' image. </p>

<p>He felt that the consultants came into the discussion with fixed opinions and pre-conceived conclusions. When he and other students expressed that in their experience excessive drinking was not wide spread and although it did happen it didn't color their overall social experience, the consultants replied repeatedly "We don't believe you!" So although the consultants' suggestions were welcome the general feeling was that their impression of the situation was still exaggerated. In short, the kids we know (who again are either light drinkers or non-drinkers, especially the athletes) do not agree that Williams has a drinking dominated culture.</p>

<p>I think the main issue is social extroversion versus introversion, not drinking. Williams kids are extremely outgoing. They like to party, they like to roam in herds, they like to argue, they like to "do something active," they like to attend when one of their friends is doing something be it sports or music or theater or art. Considering the intense academic pressure -- whether they like to study or not, study a lot they do -- I consider this emphasis on physical activity a good thing. While I was visiting my son, friends came by his room to ask if he'd like to join them for an afternoon jog, go to the gym, sign up for the sunrise hike. On Friday night we attended a presentation at the planetarium given by a classmate; afterwards, several of the kids hit the books. Later that night they met up for something to eat and a little impromptu partying. </p>

<p>There is just a whole lot to do that doesn't involve drinking. Recently my son heard Howard Dean, Thomas Kean, Salman Rushdie speak. He was also invited to join a multi-college art show. He worked as a docent at the college museum. He got together with several different groups of friends for study and/or social events. He saw some movies, he went to performances his friends were involved in including music, theater, and sports, he worked out, he hopefully got some sleep and squeezed in a fair amount of studying. The Williams experience is rich with variety.</p>

<p>To characterize Williams as dominated by binge drinkers is once again flat out wrong! It's true that at some other schools, drugs are more popular than alcohol. Thankfully, drugs are rare at Williams. And at some schools the kids are just generally more sober (intellectually) and serious. But I'd say mostly, the difference is that Williams kids are more outgoing and active than others so the comfort level may be determined more by personality than by tolerance to drinking culture. </p>

<p>Think about what your kid would do to let off steam after intensive studying. If drinking coffee and discussing politics is his/her idea of a stimulating event (I don't mean this facetiously; that's what I like to do!) then Williams is not the place. If sub-Arctic temperatures make him/her want to hibernate, then Williams is not the place. If backpacking in the wilderness is tantamount to torure, then Williams is not the place. If s/he needs the buzz of a city -- shopping, traffic, sidewalks of New York kind of thing -- then Williams is not the place. If s/he wants to be deeply involved in save the world, get out the vote, or any political/social/environment activism, then Williams is not the place.</p>

<p>I went to Michigan in the 60's, during the Vietnam era. The first two years were dominated by a heavy drinking Fraternity scene. The next two were hippy-activist drugged out. Believe me, I know from personal experience the destructive power of substance abuse and Williams isn't afflicted.</p>

70

<p>I've had a chance to review the NCHERM's website. Thanks, Driver, for the link. Their legal focus puts a somewhat different nuance on the school's motivation and the consultants' findings, especially with the sexual subtext. </p>

<p>Does anyone know if the Sokolow and Berkowitz report on Williams can be read in full?</p>

71

<p>Wow, you must be the most uptight parents in the world. Trust your children. I think its time to start trusting them enough to send them to college and let them make their own (and the right) decisions, unless you have good reason to believe they won't.</p>

72

<p>Wow.. based on what I read, Williams College is quiet unique... so I have a question. I am non-jock (don't play any sport), but am very interested in Music (play piano). Still, I greatly enjoy hiking and jogging... so will not playing any sport impact my social life? if this is true, then I have to seriously reconsider my early decision because another 4 years of high school experience don't sound very pleasing.</p>

73

<p>Virtually all of my friends were non-athletes. The Williams Outing Club is huge, and being a musician will probably help you in the admissions process as the college tries to build diverse classes.</p>

74

<p>You will love hiking up Pine Cobble and will without a doubt enjoy the beautiful scenery wherever you jog. I was by no means a jock, although I was on the Alpine ski team my first year and enjoyed it immensely. Later took up cross-country skiing and had great time learning this sport which you could do right on campus. While I think there may be more emphasis on sports than at some other LACs, I think there is room for all types of Ephs. Good luck.</p>

75

<p>casualresponder - How is Williams in terms of diversity?</p>

76

<p>I think Williams makes an effort at diversity but its location works against it. You will have to check the posted stats for current diversity. I went there when Williams was just starting to accept women!!! (early 70's) If I had grown up in a diverse urban area I can't imagine choosing to go to college so far from a city. I survived by taking a semester abroad and living off campus my senior year. But there is no doubt about the fact that Williamstown is isolated.</p>

<p>My sense is that Swarthmore is more diverse among the top LACs, if this is a huge priority. It certainly is closer to a major city, just a 20 minute train ride into Philly.</p>

77

<p>hey,
Concerning athletics-
Not everyone's a varsity athlete, but almost everyone tries to be athletic. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Williams students as a whole are physically fit. You fit the description of lots of students here; those who aren't necessarily involved in a varsity sport but need some physical exercise in their life.
Concerning diversity-
Yeah, Williams is mostly white, but then again, most LAC's are. The adcom does try to recruit minorities, but as casualresponder said, it's tough to convince a person who's used to an urban lifestyle to come to Williams. That said, Williams does provide a lot of speakers/concerts/ cultural events to keep students busy. I don't have the time to attend half the lectures I want to attend. Extra-curriculars have really kept me busy, so I don't evevn know how much I would've used Philadelphia as a resource had I gone to UPenn instead.</p>

78

<p>For the class of 08: 35% of those accepted were non-white. 28% of those matriculating are non-white. These figures do not include internationals, so the actual percentage would be a little higher. This is similar to (or somewhat better than) other LACs.</p>

79

<br>


<br>

<p>Those numbers are probably mid-pack for elite LACs. Amherst and Swarthmore are both more aggressive in seeking diversity.</p>

<p>For example, 46% of Swat's acceptances this fall were "Americans of Color" versus 35% at Williams. This, in turn, showed up in the freshmen enrollment numbers. 34% of Swat's incoming first-year students this fall are "Americans of Color" versus 28% at Williams.</p>

<p>The biggest difference in both sets of numbers reflects the much higher Asian-American segment at Swarthmore. The "black" and "latino" numbers at both schools tend to jump around a bit from year to year as a difference in just a few students makes a significant difference in terms of percentages.</p>

<p>The relatively low Asian-American numbers at Williams may be a reflection of the additional emphasis on varsity athletics. There are only so many "slots", so when athletics ECs play a stronger role, some other "slots" have to be reduced. Just guessing here, but I think it's likely that the Asian-American applicants tend to be less varsity sports oriented in their ECs.</p>

80

<p>"Amherst and Swarthmore are both more aggressive in seeking diversity."</p>

<p>More aggressive? Or just places where more "diverse" candidates choose to apply/matriculate? We are, in the case of Williams, speaking of the "isolated, frozen north," as you so often point out.</p>