So, if these numbers are correct, 82% of the enrolled class was admitted ED - and the enrolled class expanded from about 1,600, so it would have been close to 90% of the class size of the year before. That’s just…unbelievable. Is it the sense of parents of first-years that 80+% of their classmates were admitted ED? If so, wow.
I think @FStratford is pretty close to the mark in post #20. The class is effectively barbelled, with an overwhelming number locked up in the ED rounds and enough admits given out in the RD round that it doesn’t look like there’s no chance at all. UChicago can live with a low yield in the RD round if they keep it overall high enough by handing out enough binding admits earlier.
Does anyone seriously think you can compare yield between UChicago, which apparently admits 80+% of its class ED, with schools that use SCEA and admit much lower proportions of their classes with it?
@DeepBlue86 when we were there over move-in, I didn’t meet anyone not admitted ED. So my sense at the time was that it was definitely over 50%. What’s interesting is that EA/RD is probably about a 1/3 yield and I’m wondering whether that’s higher than they expected.
To answer your question about comparability: No. @marlowe1’s point about UChicago using ED not just to increase yield but to find the applicants it wants to admit is a valid one. UChicago is clearly not using ED the way that other schools are.
I met one student that did not apply ED and was accepted RD a few weeks ago. He was also accepted at MIT/CIT and chose UChicago for specific staff in the Math department.
@DeepBlue86 Your ideological fervor is indeed remarkable. Of course one can compare. The quality of the student body and their stats are substantially equal to or better than any school anywhere. Ultimately, that’s all that matters. So in its devious scheme, Uchicago has attracted both the right students and gotten yield to the very top. I call that a triumph.
Stats only tell us but so much, my dear @Chrchill - something tells me that if Chicago could swap it’s incoming class for Harvard’s right now, it’d make the trade in a heartbeat.
The proof will be in the pudding, though. Let’s track Chicago’s class of 2021 against Harvard’s and see who comes out on top. Let’s track number of Rhodes and Marshall scholarships won, number of places taken at Yale law and johns Hopkins med, number of prime phd slots won, etc.
Time will tell. I have a hunch that seemingly similar stats now will nonetheless lead to significant gaps in achievement later.
@cue7 Harvard always gets the class it wants. But its characteristics may not be the same as what Uchicago wants. If you read my post closely (and mine are always worth reading closely due to their uniquely invaluable insight and originality) you will note that I said “substantially equal to or bette than any school.” In Harvard’s case it would be substantially equal to, not equal. Under Faust, Harvard’s emphasis has been every conceiveable kind of diversity, first generation etc. Not necessarily the same priority for UChicago. Judging outcome success in law with just Yale is also misleading. You have to look at placement in the top 5 and then top ten law, business and medical school and PhD programs. Bet you that UChicago’s outcomes will be right there with other elites.
Sure you can compare, @Chrchill - but it’s like comparing teams where one has many more draft picks than the others and being amazed by how many top-ranked players sign with that team. Or, if you’d prefer a golf analogy, it’s like claiming two players are equally as good because they shoot the same relative to their handicaps, but one has a handicap ten strokes higher than the other.
I have no ideological axe to grind here - I think UChicago is a top-tier university, and have often said so. They’ve also attracted many high-stats kids, helped by an unparalleled ability to cherrypick them from the ED pool and unimpeded by a “stats tax” they would have suffered if they had a bigger, D1 athletics program.
One has to have an ideological agenda, though, to claim with a straight face that two universities with yields in the low 70s have been demonstrated to be equally attractive when one takes over 80% of its class ED and the other takes less than 60% of its class EA.
@Cue7 Actually I think it could be just the opposite, sure there will be some superstars at Harvard but overall class vs overall class UChicago will be stronger in the middle and on the back end (after all UChicago doesn’t recruit Div I athletes). You can also look at MIT vs Caltech, MIT has a much larger class and CT loses a lot of cross admits to MIT (look at CT’s yield) but I imagine that CT grads do quite well against MIT after you adjust for class size.
@DeepBlue86 insomniac again … ? Equally attractive is a different issue from class quality. Never said that Chicago is equally attractive as Harvard. It is not. Also, when engaging with me, please eschew all sport analogies and metaphors. If find them rather tawdry … I have no use for athletics in universities. They are just a distraction and marketing tool. They should all just do soulcycle …
ED and EA are all designed to boost yield. sorry when you put in EA you are gaming. Chicago does it better. So what?
the numbers show Chicago is frankly kicking butt and getting great classes… better than most ivies.
Chicago will be in the top tier of admits and selectivity soon at this rate.
if that follows with increase in funding and visionary initiatives from the admins… watch out.
funny to hear the Div 1 athlete argument about the ivies… very small impact if at all. yes it’s div 1 but it’s not FBS power conference Div 1. big difference folks.
Grand larceny and shoplifting are all designed to steal stuff. sorry when you put in shoplifting you are stealing stuff. Grand larceny does it better. So what?
Every Ivy could produce the same stats profile if they took >80% of their classes ED and shaped their classes accordingly - there are plenty of high-stats kids to go around. And “better classes” isn’t synonymous with higher-stats.
Until and unless the tippy-tops introduce ED - which they won’t because it would hurt their ability to get the best classes (even though it would make them look far more selective than UChicago).
Smaller endowment and relative lack of funding are probably a major reason for the excessive use of ED, coupled with overadmitting, since you’d expect those things to bring lots of full payers.
About 200 athletic recruits per year at each Ivy (which compete nationally in some sports), close to twice as many varsity teams as UChicago and D1 at the Ivies vs. D3 at UChicago - it matters, I’m afraid.
This topic has really been exhausted and nauseam. Can we please debate something new ? Perhaps the comparative merits of strawberry versus chocolate ice cream ? Bottom line. There is no right answer r here, all top,schools should either all have ED or RD. Once EA , Restructes EA etc and combination thereof are introduced, its all the same gaming. Uchicago simply has done it very well. ~O)
Amusing how you say the topic has been exhausted, request that we “debate something new”, but then attempt to restate your point of view so as to get the last word, @Chrchill. I’ll stop now, though - as the mods say, CC isn’t a debating society.
The two things that ought to matter most here are (a) the inherent quality of matriculated students,and (b) their suitability to the University of Chicago. I take test scores and gpa (pace @DeepBlue86 ) as rough proxies for (a) and numbers admitted ED as rough proxies for (b). We don’t yet have the stats on this year’s admitted class in support of (a), but if those numbers are, as I believe they will be, at least as good as the ones for HYP, and if the numbers admitted via (b) are higher than ever - well, in my mind, the case is made that Chicago Admissions has found the right kids for the right school, which is all we should care about.
You think if we expanded this out to top 5 law schools and top 10 med schools it’d look any different? Also, we haven’t even looked at the places (like Harvard Law and Harvard Med) that love Harvard undergrads.
Please. Keep your crimson scarf on. In terms of strength of classes by the metrics that matter most (outcomes, not small disparities in SAT scores), Harvard still eats Chicago’s lunch.
I’ll stop now, though - as the mods say, CC isn’t a debating society.
Closing thread.