Akapiratequeen——— My son’s last audition is at MSM in NYC. I heard from my son’s friend who is auditioning at The New School and MSM this week and is already in NY, The New School cancelled his audition and rescheduled it to next day.
Trimpletmama——— I wonder if your daughter can gets some cancellation spot for her audition at The New School instead of waiting until weenend. There seem like many juggling there…
Yes excellent point, everyone is juggling. But weather in NY is actually really nice and not much snow at all. @tripletmama
Re APs, it totally depends on your kid. But if your child has high academics, will study music at a university with general education requirements, and can handle the load, there can be a great benefit to AP courses if you score well on the AP tests. S18 took 5 APs senior year, graduating with 11. My son’s college gave him 35 credits due to his AP scores, that directly were applied to general education requirements. He never has to take another math or science or foreign language again, if he does not want to. He has precious few credits available outside a music BM, and now instead of taking a required gen ed course he can take an upper level course that interests him more, or he more easily minor in another discipline (he’s planning on a minor in French). He can take business courses to prepare for life as a music entrepreneur. But I do agree it also depends on the school and how generous they are with AP credits.
@vistajay great points. And many of the schools are not that generous, especially with BM students. So worth researching.
Greetings from NY where my S had his New School audition yesterday and is awaiting his NYU Steinhardt audition on Wed.
Wanted to weigh in on the APs.
Mind you, I’m strongly influenced by my own experience with APs many years ago. I took six back when APs were less common and that was considered a lot. I got some kind of credit for all of my APs, and as an engineering major, was thrilled to get the relief on the course load, not to mention the GPA boost I was able to use on my college aps. Things have changed since then, of course, but philosophically, we wanted S to take as many APs as he could reasonably handle, and he picked AP courses to suit his strengths and the fact that he was a music major with the end goal of maximizing his chances at highly selective universities. After April 1, we’ll all see if that strategy was successful.
Thanks @WestOfPCH and good luck at NYU! Is that the last one for S?
I also think that’s a great point about being influenced by our own experience. I graduated high school a term early (in December) at a time when you could only take AP classes as a senior, so I didn’t take any. Perhaps I’ve never taken them entirely seriously for that reason! A few thoughts based on your comments:
The weighted AP grades definitely help with GPA and class ranking, which has a lot of value if you are heading to a very rigorous school. That said, colleges look at your end-of-junior-year GPA so I’m not sure senior year APs are as crucial.
With very few exceptions, my kids have found that high AP test scores help them place out of Gen Ed requirements and qualify for higher level courses, but do not count as credits toward college graduation. The more selective the school, the more likely this is to be the case.
Given the choice between sacrificing practice time and sacrificing APs, music programs pretty much universally suggest ditching the APs. Some kids can do both, and others are prepping for double majors. But I have been surprised at how heavily weighted the audition is as compared to anything else. Test scores (especially standardized test scores, but APs as well) count less than I would have imagined possible.
Finally, while it is great to excel at everything you do, Ivy League-level schools (in my experience) are looking for true excellence, at the highest level, in 1-2 areas – the so-called “pointy” kids. This is anecdotal but (full disclosure) comes from my experience of nearly 20 years as a regional interviewer for Yale.
So if you can do it all, great. But don’t compromise the 1-2 things you do better than anyone in order to appear “well-rounded.” Just my .02.
I won’t rehash the excellent points that others have made regarding APs other than to point out the “opportunity cost” of taking on more than you need to academically in your senior year.
Yes, for the reasons others have cited (long hours working on pre-screens, travel for auditions, etc.).
But also for the “cost” in terms of how your kid MIGHT have otherwise spent those AP homework hours.
For example, my D has been doing a pre-college jazz program at an NYC based conservatory every Saturday for the past two years. It not only eats up half her weekend, it generates more homework (in theory, ear training and transcriptions) than any of her high school classes.
She also participates in a weekly Jazz clinic for 3 hours every Wednesday doing more theory, composition, and improvisation with a combo of other motivated high school students. She’s done this for the past 4 years.
And having watched her development over that time and the time commitments of her few senior year APs (Music Theory, Environmental Science), I can safely assert two things:
So that’s the other factor I think that needs to be considered. If you are trying to get into a really competitive BM program, you have to find a way to assess/calibrate and decide whether any spare hour you have in a week should go into academics or into building performance skills. And you have to figure this out somewhere during junior year.
If a student can confidently say as a junior that they are at the top of their game when it comes to their instrument already, with only modest room for improvement, than sure, loading up with APs to build additional differentiation makes sense. But if you don’t know that, or suspect you are in the middle of the pack when it comes to playing, you have a tougher call to make. Betting that one can make up for average (by elite BM standards) playing with a superior academic record could be a risky bet (i think).
Of course as others have said, depends on the school. USC and UM are both on my D’s list. And if she didn’t have GPA/ACT that were “in range” I’d likely have a different POV about where she spent her time this year. But if she is fortunate enough to get accepted into either of those schools I’m certain that it will be because of her playing, not her academics.
@khill87
My D did not want to take off many days for auditions. Her music teachers also recommended against doing too many auditions due to audition fatigue. They recommended 3-5; she applied to six schools, auditioned at one during a vocal festival already planned for via the high school, and three weekends in a row missed either a half or full Friday. After these four auditions she was done, and canceled the scheduled audition at the hometown university and one in Indiana. All in all, she didn’t lose too many school days this year. Last year with sample lesson/college visits we probably lost a few as well. Perhaps you could road trip during spring break (we did this junior year) or plan a Friday visit in April or May (we also chose professional development days for this).
My S only missed two days for auditions. His school technically has a limit on the number of days they will excuse for college visits, but as long as a parent calls in an absence (for any reason), it seems to go into the books as an excused absence. They barely seem to keep track.
He has 4 APs this year, but only AP Gov seems to have even moderate amounts of HW. He never does his Calc homework (it’s optional), and most of the assignments for AP music theory and computer science are done in class. He is also not the most studious person and is happy enough to get a mix of As and Bs without doing much of anything.
Son’s small Ithaca envelope was a waitlist offer so I guess we can close the book on that one. It was nice of them to let him know that they consider him sort of almost qualified since this was his reach. I’m proud of how far he’s come since he made the decision to do this near the end of junior year.
That was his last result so he just needs to pick between two schools after crossing the psuedo-safety option off the list!
For those interested - the Big Red X on the Northwestern portal is now replaced with a green check mark. So the audition results are in!
It took me a while to work up the energy to post regarding S last audition. He auditioned Feb. 23 at Vanderbilt and felt good about the audition. My wife accompanied him on the trip and really liked the school and campus. S only did 4 auditions and we are exhausted from the process! Now on to the waiting game…he is relieved to have one admission at a school he really likes so that is helping with the stress.
@JeJeJe - well, our daughter slept all day today at the NYC hotel (one block from the New School). I finally had the hotel wake her up at 3pm! 
She was exhausted - but she had to go and exchange her bass for one that didn’t sound flat (who would have know - but apparently there are “D” basses and “B flat” basses.
So - while she slept, I called and emailed the New School to re-schedule her audition. Turns out that they were closed today (due to the snow) so we didn’t hear anything back. Then after she got the bass, she emailed. No answer. I don’t know how long we can put her up in a hotel - certainly not until Saturday which is the first available spot on the on-line scheduler. My mom lives 3 hours away in PA but she can’t take a bass on the bus. My niece lives in Philly - but again, not sure about how to get her there. Plus - the rental bass is $100 a day. (yikes!). Not to mention all the school she is missing.
She is going to sit in on a class tomorrow at the New School (the History of Smalls, the Jazz Club) and 2 classes on Wed. so that’s good. I just really hope they find her a slot so that she can get home and go to school (and we can put the audition trail behind us!).
Thanks to all for your advice on our Berklee financial aid situation. After spelling things out more clearly for my husband he called today (his job is much more flexible than mine and he’s the one who’s done the FAFSA and CSS). Turns out there was a glitch in the system. Berklee had asked for some tax forms and a couple of other things (4 in total) back in February. He had sent two of the items and Berklee had sent an email saying they had all needed materials even though he had not sent two of the items. So he thought the other items weren’t needed (also because he thought it was repetitive from what he had reported on the FAFSA). When he finally got to talk to someone today who was looking at our file they said they couldn’t process our financial aid because of the missing items, what the heck!? So now all items have been submitted and we play the waiting game for FA. I just had a sense that something was wrong and I was right! Thank you to all who suggested we call!
YEAHHHHHHH!!! The New School just emailed 30 minutes ago (wow - they are burning the midnight oil) and our daughter’s audition spot is at 11:30am tomorrow (Tuesday). Can’t wait until this audition trail is over!
Our daughter did ask to stay until Wed. because an old jazz cat (Reggie Workman) is teaching a class at the New School on Wed. that she would like to sit in on and @SpartanDrew’s daughter is singing at a gig on Wed. night and our daughter went to pre-school with her bassist so she would like to go to that, too if possible. Hmmmm…there is an 11pm flight back that night out of JFK so maybe?
Thanks all for all your kind thoughts and help!
Our D did 6 live auditions out-of-state, 1 live audition at our state u., and 1 video audition. In total she missed 8 school days. On the other hand, we had to reschedule a couple of auditions to work around a band trip and an honor band, so that probably added a day or two of missed school. We never felt we could afford to miss enough school/ work to arrive 2 days in advance. Except for 1 audition, we flew in the evening before. It was tiring but also an adventure.
Our school doesn’t seem too concerned about D’s absences–no consequences that I am aware of. D’s counselor and teachers have been supportive and flexible. It helped that D has been good at communicating and building trust with them. Her counselor has understood and supported D’s passion for music from the very beginning of high school.
Although audition travel was tiring, the biggest stress point of the year so far might have been in November when D had to work on her senior thesis while also trying to finish up her college apps and record and upload 20 separate videos for her prescreens by Dec. 1.
First of all, so glad that @tripletmama ‘s D got an audition slot Tues morning. Best of luck to her and congrats on being done!
Totally agree with comments from both @akapiratequeen and @DrummerDad18 . Especially love @akapiratequeen ’s comments about “pointy” vs well-rounded kids. A friend of mine leads a prominent college test-prep and admissions consulting firm, and she told me that unlike “back in our day” (I.e. applying to college in the 80’s), today colleges look for “well-rounded admissions classes” comprised of students with clear excellence in specific areas instead of a class of well-rounded kids (in fact, she said one Ivy told her that “well-rounded kids rolled down the hill a long time ago!”).
My own research and experience (I work for university and my wife is a consultant whose clients are all universities) has proven that to be true. If forced to choose, schools will almost always prefer the student great at one thing over one that is “merely” good at everything. The key for any specific school, then, is to make sure you know what their middle two quartile academic admissions stats are (I.e. 25%-75% SAT/ACT and GPA being the easiest to find). If your child’s academics generally fit in that ballpark AND they do well on the audition AND they have at least a “good enough” essay and letters of recommendation, they pretty much have nothing to fear from the university-level admissions folks.
The danger is if your child is below that threshold. Two comments from people in very relevant positions stick out in my mind:
a DMA from USC Thornton who used to work in their admissions office confirmed that auditions are THE MOST important part of their admission evaluation. That said, she added that most great classical musicians have great academics too, so if (insert famous faculty member here) was trying to decide between offering the last open spot to two undergrad applicants — Candidate A with a great academic resume vs Candidate B with meh academics — and both had comparable auditions, Candidate A would get the offer because they knew they wouldn’t have to fight the university to get them accepted. Jazz, popular music, and music industry majors didn’t have as universally awesome academics, but they still didn’t suck, and she specifically mentioned the need to avoid the bottom quartile of academics if at all possible because she knew of situations (albeit uncommon) when a candidate Thornton wanted to admit was nixed by the university due to something academic. (FWIW: Karen Kerr, Admissions Director at Miami Frost, echoed this in a chat last summer without going into as much detail)
a former admissions officer at Dartmouth and other prominent Northeast schools (university admissions, not music school) was speaking at a panel discussion I attended and told parents “assume that the lowest quartile doesn’t exist — those low scores and GPAs are the athletes and other candidates with unusual circumstances that most people don’t have.” I asked him separately if that applied to performing arts majors specifically, and he demurred, saying it depends somewhat on the university, but that in all circumstances, avoid the bottom quartile if at all possible.
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Thanks to those who asked about my S. He is very much looking forward to the NYU jam session audition on Wed, particularly since this will be his last. His teachers and band directors — not to mention my wallet — are extremely grateful he’ll be done traveling.
I admire any student who can handle more than 3 AP’s at a time, especially with all the audition demands and ensemble commitments built into the schedule. My daughter took 2 AP’s last year, She did very well in AP Music Theory class and the exam & did well in the AP Lang class but not on the exam (she is not a great test-taker due to anxiety and timing issues-she loves to write, is a perfectionist and often runs out of time.) So I am debating whether to have her challenge that exam and re-take so she can earn college credit. She is taking 2 Syracuse University English classes this year which is a better option than AP classes for her because it’s portfolio-based, not test-based and she can still earn college credit. Her grades aren’t top-rate but she is doing well enough that they will be counted for college credit. I will need to find out if and how these classes are accepted at various colleges but hoping she will at least enter college with 6 credits (but 12 would be wonderful!) My daughter is over-the-top artsy and musical but not super-acedemic. She has about a 3.7 GPA but grades on the ACT were only average, probably below average in the eyes of some colleges like Miami. Due to some anxiety and stress issues that my daughter faces, we opted to keep her senior year as low-stress and “easy” as possible. It has worked out well so far with challenges (SU classes) only in her strong areas. Luckily audition is everything, but we do know that the academic side of things may be a hurdle for admissions. We figure if academics are a big issue for a certain college, maybe that college is not meant to be and the test-optional ones are the better fit. She was even invited into the honors program at one of them! I do caution against too many AP’s in senior year even though I can’t relate to having that dilemma : )
Glad things worked out @tripletmama My daughter has her New School audition on Thursday and City College on Saturday and she is dealing with severe congestion and stuffy ear issues so we are trying to get her healthy!
Congrats on the new admissions I’ve seen posted here and good luck surviving this waiting period! We’ve got this!
Thank you to everyone who weighed in on D’s AP courseload! We will definitely be monitoring the situation carefully to be sure she isn’t taking on too much. (My sense is that AP courses may vary a great deal from place to place when it comes to rigor and workload. At public schools in our area, they seem to be quieter, disruption-free alternatives to the on-level classes, and there’s not a big difference in the amount of homework. Your experiences may have been MUCH different if your AP courses really are like college classes! Also, in some cases here in our semi-rural district, they are the only way to take a subject. For example, my daughter is in French 4 now, and there is no French 5, only AP French. But she learns French practically by osmosis – and loves it – so she’d be crazy not to keep taking it when she knows it will be both fun and an easy A for her).
One thing to note also: D is a classical vocalist. I think her ability to prep for auditions may differ from instrumentalists because there is sort of an upper limit for a singer to practice without overdoing it and hurting their voice. She’s already starting to work now on pieces for her prescreens so she can do it steadily and slowly over the next six months and be ready to record in September or October.
I was really just curious about whether other schools look more kindly on the very legitimate need to miss school for an audition – it sounds like many of you are at schools with more reasonable policies, and in states without arbitrary laws to punish any absence that isn’t related to illness. It’s good advice to sit down with the guidance counselor well in advance and talk this through – and I think we’ll be doing that this spring rather than waiting till the fall.
@khill87 - Our D is also a classical vocalist. She only did four auditions and missed two days of school. We got a bit lucky with the scheduling and weekend auditions. Her school is pretty flexible with absences, but we did not need to ask for anything special. That said, I would not have wanted her to miss more than 5 or 6 days of school. Perhaps you can speak with the college counseling and/or music department to seek an extra allowance for your D, if necessary.
It is a good idea to start on the pre-screening repertoire now. That will make it easier for you in the fall. Our D wanted to wait until after her summer camp. Unfortunately, she got a bad chest cold right after camp and couldn’t sing well for close to month. All worked out well in the end, but she didn’t have as much time to spare as she would have liked and she wasn’t able to apply to any of the contests with an October deadline. When a song is ready, your D might want to record it (at least on a smart phone). She can always try to make a better recording in the fall, but you’ll have the early recording to fall back on, if necessary.
@khill87 - agree you need to start pulling the list together now. You need to start working with your accompanist soon.
We hired someone from the local conservatory and worked with her on timing and she accompanied my D in the actual video recording. We recorded the prescreen videos in Oct but we actually did it 2x. The first time we didn’t like the acoustics in the room once we listened to the videos. We ended up recording in a church for the submitted videos. We just re-recorded all her songs last month as we submitted to one school as a video audition.
My daughter is high academic is taking 4 AP classes and will take 5 AP tests in May. We mapped out all the auditions in a grid and when we submitted her applications in most of the schools we could list her preferred dates. She only missed 1 day of school with 4 auditions and that was due to flying to NYC. Kinda depends on how far you are going to look for undergrad schools. We made the decision to stay within a certain radius for undergrad. She will need to go onto graduate school to work toward performing on stage. At that point its up to her how far she wants to go.
Definitely have the conversation now with her school on missing days for auditions. Our school allows 2 days as juniors and 2 days as seniors to go to college visits. However after discussion with the school they waived that number if we needed to have more days off.