We’ve been getting a lot of emails wanting us to click, yes we want to go or no we don’t. I know they need to move the money and or acceptances to other students if we aren’t interested. Then there are others that have the still considering option. We ignore the yes/no ones but click the still considering options when available. We don’t want to close any doors as financial aid is crucial to us as well. There was a definite no early on that had given him some extra scholarship money from an endowment fund in addition to top merit. When he was certain we told them no so they could pass that on to another student. But when we don’t even have all acceptances yet and could easily be waiting another month for the numbers to come in it’s not prudent to say no and we aren’t going to commit and shoot ourself in the foot with it since May 1 is reply date. So we are waiting it out.
It’s really frustrating because each school is on their own timeline, so i can’t imagine how they expect someone to commit without all the puzzle pieces in hand. So far we have three acceptances, with one merit award, and the other two (IF he was awarded anything) coming late march- early april. Also waiting for two more schools to notify whether or not he is accepted, and those decisions will come end of march. I also feel badly making schools 1-3 wait, but we need to know where he stands financially with all the players. It’s also very tricky with showing interest, you want to show how much you like the school, but you don’t want them to take that to mean that they don’t need to entice you with more money. Someone needs to write a book “The Insider’s Guide to College Admissions for Talented Kids.”
Congratulations on all the admits and merit offers. I am so happy for you and your talented kids.
I agree this is a crazy mix between game of musical chairs and poker. Keep your cards up and faces straight! All the best!
How exciting to get scholarships, @UniversityMomOf2! It was clearly enough to make him take a second look!
@UniversityMomOf2 , Yes, we also have some schools that D would be ready to say no to, but we can’t do that unless at least one of her top choices comes back with an affordable package. It’s too bad for the “no” schools, but nothing we can do about it until we get financial aid packages.
@akapiratequeen - congrats on the Rutger’s acceptance!
@UniversityMomOf2 - congrats on the several acceptances!! Wow.
I hope that we see many more rolling in for our your talented kids in the next few weeks! This is when it starts to get exciting!
Yes - I agree, this is like putting together a big jigsaw puzzle - or I love the analogy of a mix of musical chairs and poker. One of the school’s our daughter auditioned at had a current student that plays her same instrument call our daughter…so I assume that’s a good sign - but nothing in writing yet. We expect letters to roll in on March 15 and March 31. I notice that our daughter signed up for informed delivery (or whatever that is called)…and here I thought that we parents were the only savvy ones! :-c
This is a great topic! S got a letter yesterday from the head of the saxophone studio at a school where he hasn’t yet been officially admitted. The teacher praised his strong audition and offered a free lesson, shadow day etc. He looks amazing, but the reality is, this school would only be feasible with an enormous merit package — not something they are known for giving. So how should S respond? Should he take a day off and do the lesson when there is little chance he can afford the school? Should he level with the professor and say I’d love to meet you, but need to know whether the school is a real option for me first? Should he use numbers (he’d need to get $30-40k a year to even put this school on the table) and/or mention other offers? Neither of us have the faintest clue.
First piece of advice is to reiterate in no uncertain terms to your D that no school can require an answer before 5/1, that she shouldn’t feel bad about weighing her options (the schools get to weigh their options, don’t they?), and that while it’s undertandable why they would want to know how students are leaning, it would be foolish for any student to make decisions without all the information. Hopefully that will relieve her stress. This part of the process puts the students in the driver’s seat, briefly, and it feels strange to them, but they should not feel bad about it.
That said, if there’s a really clear number one choice, and her accepting depends on FA - I say let them know that. “You’re her number one choice, but we need FA to afford you, we can’t say more until we get the numbers.”
You could make similar statements to other top schools ( you’re a top contender, but we have to wait for FA before committing anywhere). The place it gets a little murkier is lower priority schools that your kid is unlikely to attend unless none of the top choices turns out to be affordable. There’s nothing wrong with simply saying to them “we’re waiting for FA,” but it feels ethically dubious to me to do anything more to prod them to put together a FA package your kid is very unlikely to ultimately accept.
And of course if at some point a FA offer comes through at a top choice that is good enough such that money offers would not move you to certain other schools, I feel you should let those certain other schools know that they are out of contention right away.
It’s a good mini life lesson in negotiation, isn’t it?
Congrats to @akapiratequeen and @UniversityMomof2!
So my S is thinking he’s going to pass on his waitlist offer - does anyone have any uplifting waitlist stories or should we just trust his instinct on this one that he is fine choosing from the options he has?
It seems unlikely that they won’t fill 3 or 4 slots in the desired studio and it’s unclear that there would be merit available if they miraculously contact him in May.
@akapiratequeen While I have no real experience with this type of situation…so take it as my .02 worth. If your S can easily attend the lesson/shadow day offered without too much drama and expense, he should go. It is an opportunity to network if nothing else. You never know what this meeting could lead to later, even if your S doesn’t attend said school. Who knows, it could even lead to a fantastic offer. To go along with the poker analogy mentioned earlier-Why not play the card being dealt?
It will be interestig to hear more thoughts on this topic.
@akapiratequeen, my gut tells me that S should do the lesson and shadow day unless you have to go to great expense to have him travel to the school. If it’s a school that he would like to go to, I think spending the day with the possilbility of establishing a nice connection with the teacher can only help increase the chances of a merit scholarship that may make the school affordable for you. And, maybe I am a little more lax than others on this issue, but I don’t see one more day out of school second semester senior year to be a big deal.
Thanks @diglass and @lkbux64 – the school is nearby so I agree, there is no reason not to do the lesson. In a worst-case scenario, he’ll know for sure that he doesn’t want to go there.
@eh1234 – is there a down side in waiting? Will S lose other opportunities?
While on the topic of scholarships, I am trying to wrap my head around the process of leveraging one school’s scholarship offer to increase another. I have read on other threads that the offers need to be from peer institutions to be meaningful, which makes perfect sense. But how do you know what is considered a peer institution? S has scholarship offers from two universities that don’t have music schools, I would think that those cannot be used to negotiate with music schools. Are other university based music schools (not conservatories) considered peers such that a scholarship offer from one can be leveraged to get a scholarship from another?
It can be worthwhile to share the money details with teachers or schools reaching out to your kid. At this stage last year, S18 was down to five schools, several of which we knew were going to be affordable but all the final numbers were not in. He told the other schools no or had previously withdrawn his application. Of the five remaining, as he received inquiries about his intentions he initially responded that the school was one of his favorites but that he had to consider finances and once he had received all financial awards he would be back in touch. As he received his final numbers and schools or teachers reached out to him again, he told them, “Thanks for contacting me. I remain very interested in attending your university. I have received a full tuition scholarship to University X, and a full tuition plus room/board stipend to University Y. Finances play a large role in my decision. I will let you know as soon as I can.” This second email yielded responses from teachers advocating why their program was better for him, even if more expensive. It also did yield increased music merit scholarships. In one case, when a certain school realized they were competing with an in state rival that would be a cheaper option, the voice chair called and offered him another $10,000 in music merit.
@vistajay from your mouth to God’s ear!
@lkbux64 I can say that in our experience last year, Miami was considered a peer school and D’s offer was beneficial to help move the needle at her current school. They offered her close to what Miami had offered but matched the Miami offer on appeal. Then at the bitter end, when D knew that New School was where she wanted to be but the money fell short, we were advised to appeal again. I didn’t even know that was a thing! So we did and they bumped the offer again. I will say though that offers from lower tier schools likely would not have achieved the same result.
@lkbux64 we discussed this with a friend who is music faculty at a good school. He said that if possible, it’s best to wait for all the offers and then make your pitch – once – to your first choice, if you have a clear one. He said the student should write a letter explaining that s/he would love to attend; that finances are an issue (doesn’t hurt to say why, keep it short though); that other schools have offered A, B and C (attach scans of offer letters); and that the amount the student needs is X (or close to X, or however you want to phrase it) in order to commit.
Interestingly, he didn’t feel the schools needed to be on the exact same level. But he did feel the programs should be close to the same, e.g. performance BM in a music school/conservatory.
What do others think?
@eh1234 . . . the most important info I’ve ever heard regarding waitlists came from a college admissions officer of a “big name” school who said (and I’m paraphrasing here):
- a wait list is not a “no” and importantly means that candidate is qualified to attend
- admissions officers are ultimately responsible for filling seats; therefore, waitlists are usually NOT ranked academically, but rather by how likely a candidate is to accept an offer of admission if given one.
In other words, if a school gets to the point where they have to dip into the waitlist, they are trying to fill empty seats as fast as possible in order to prevent lost revenue that’d happen if one of their slots for incoming freshman is not filled. The longer it takes to get someone – anyone – from the waitlist to accept, the less likely they’ll fill that empty chair. And the less prestigious the school, the lower those odds become (e.g. given the standard candidate decision date of May 1, Stanford has a much higher chance of getting someone from their waitlist to commit on May 15 than, say, Random State Polytech U.)
In other words, given Candidate A has the highest GPA and SAT/ACT scores and the best audition but the school is uncertain about how interested he/she truly is in their school vs. Candidate B who was originally lower on the evaluation pecking order but has made it very clear that the school is and always will be their #1 choice and they would accept an offer if admitted, the admissions officer has a much higher incentive to offer Candidate B. Remember, you don’t make it onto the waitlist if you’re not someone they’d be willing to take, otherwise the school would have just said “no.”
The implications for any candidate, therefore, are clear: If you get waitlisted by a school that is #1 or close to it on your priority list:
- make every effort to show that you’re interested.
- Contact anyone with any kind of leverage in the situation (university admissions, music school admissions, faculty, etc.) and make it clear you’d attend if offered.
- Give any updated academic or artistic information that is impressive or useful that may have happened since the original application and/or audition was completed.
It’s no guarantee that you’ll ultimately get offered, but it certainly will improve your odds dramatically.
On the related topic of scholarships and financial aid with regards to wait lists: the situation is similar (but it’s unclear whether or not it happens as frequently). I know someone who was accepted to a Top 25 school but turned down initially for one of their rare full-ride scholarships which required separate applications and interviews, only to get notice three weeks later that “upon further consideration,” the school decided to offer the pile of $$$ to them after all.
Good luck to your son! Hope he is happy wherever he ends up attending.
Yes, I agree absolutely with this. My daughter was originally waitlisted for her undergrad conservatory (she had a bad audition for numerous reasons.) She did exactly this: an in-person meeting with the admissions director, updated info, contacted anyone we could think of with leverage. It was her first choice program and she was very serious about it. She got in, with scholarship, and ended up doing extremely well (winning prizes, fellowships, and an award at graduation.) She learned from the admissions director that the waitlist is a serious waitlist indeed.
Great advice @vistajay! And @WestOfPCH & @glassharmonica we experienced that exact wait list scenario way back when we applied to private elementary school (we had a somewhat disastrous experience there, but that’s a whole different conversation). Being persistent and indicating how much we wanted to be there was key.
It’s the equivalent of ‘asking for the order’ in sales.