@tripletmama You are going to get answers all across the board on the how much debt is is too much.
My D will only have her freshman year loan of $5500 (or whatever that total will be by the time she graduates in 2020). She uses her teaching job to “live on” and saves all her gig money, so she already has the money to pay that back and buy her own car, etc. I felt debt was not a good idea for a musician after researching realistic salary expectations.
TBH, I’m of the opinion that in pursuing a jazz /pop/ rock / musical theater career, college is not necessary. We did want our D to have a bachelor’s degree (as did she), and this path allows her to continue to practice and learn new skills AND get a degree. The truth is, when she graduates, she will be competing with people that may not have a degree but instead studied privately or even self taught and have been out “in the real world” already. Nobody will care about her degree. How will she play (sing) and who does she know? Those things will largely determine her fate. Trust me there will be others that instead had double the lessons with a fantastic teacher and practiced twice as long (because they didn’t have an English paper due) and have already been out working and making a name for themselves.
I definitely don’t think going for broke for the dream school is “all in”. All in, for us, would be shipping her off to LA and hiring a voice coach that works with celebrities (going rate $400-$500 /hr) who may be able to hook her up with a somewhat well known songwriter to co write with or a “famous” producer that may be willing to record her album, etc and so on. Basically, investing probably $100-$200K into “launching her career” with no fall back plan.
We opted for college. With low cost schooling and no debt and working and saving along the way, some of the other stuff may still be possible but still not $100K worth. Who knows. I guess in a sense, the degree IS the backup plan or maybe a compromise of sorts.
We have decided that the amount of acceptable debt for a music degree is $0.00, but we are not dealing with an elite level of talent here, so it is easy to make that call - I would probably struggle to keep my financial sense about me if he were an actual candidate for top schools/programs.
S will definitely need grad school before launch so we are just hoping to find a good, affordable fit without worrying too much about the name of the school. We’ll worry about that in the fall of 2022!
As with so many things, I believe it depends on the kid and their post-college plans. My older D desperately wanted to go to NYU. She got a good scholarship but recognized she would have debt. She made amazing connections and has worked steadily in her field (ed tech) since graduation. She may also return for graduate school and was able to make connections that led to a full-tuition offer in the grad program. We’ve taken on some of her debt; she’s paying off the “student” portion on her own. No regrets there.
Music S is a different breed of fish. He plans to teach and hopes to get his master’s pretty much right away, so his focus is finding a school where he feels challenged and isn’t the biggest fish --and also one that feeds into the most elite grad programs – while at the same time, saving money.
We can afford to pay his in-state NJ tuition or contribute that amount to an out-of-state program, so he knows exactly where the needle falls. He’ll ether go in-state or choose a program that costs the same out of pocket. That’s where the merit awards and, later, the appeals come in. We’ll see what happens!
Congratulations to all those with acceptances in the last few days! It’s great to hear of all the great options our students will have!
We’re also on the side of no debt at all for an undergraduate degree. Especially for a future musician/teacher. But honestly we felt the same for our daughters who pursued engineering and econ. They have both thanked us for that as they neared the end of undergrad and began to see how income and expenses work in the real world, and they both landed jobs with excellent salaries straight out of school. Debt is a burden, and we didn’t think college kids need to be carrying it. DH did have grad school debt—we aren’t totally opposed, just very debt-averse.
It is a challenge, especially with music though. It meant our son has a short college list with no top conservatories, even though it’s likely he could have had some admissions at more big name schools. He’s happy with his possibilities anyway, and we are comfortable with the costs.
Now if his school’s would just release their decisions. I think we will hear about the rest of his admissions next week. Tired of waiting. Oh wait—-looks like there’s an envelope in today’s mail from last week’s audition school ?. Somebody’s going to be watching out the window for the mail truck.
@eh1234 For what it’s worth, my son wrote back and thanked the professor who let him know that he was waitlisted, saying that he had been accepted elsewhere and would be committing well before the waitlist period, so to please go ahead remove him from the waitlist.
@tripletmama RE: your D’s experience with school saying “invest in jazz education”. I do think it’s got to be a relative question, right? Not an absolute number. It’s not that we’re not going to invest, but which is the best investment - So called “top school” with large debt, or “another school” with less/no debt.
My S did end up emailing his waitlist school to express his interest and to confirm a few details about the waitlist since their letter was pretty vague. (i.e., it’s not even clear whether he’s being waitlisted for the specific B.M. program, the school of music in general, or the college in general - they also mysteriously changed his major on the portal). He should mail his reply tomorrow so hopefully they will respond today.
I think debt is OK (to a degree) if it’s to get a bachelor’s. The difference between a bachelor’s degree and no degree for future security can be worth “some” debt. My D had a friend with no family support and he had to take on debt to get a degree. He went to the in-state public school (luckily he lived in Indiana with a good music program).
For how much…the best question may be: how much do YOU want to help your kid after school? Being further down the trail, I don’t know any music/performance kids who make over $30,000 in the first year (for many it can be more around $10 - 15,000 for music and a survival job the first year). Most performers work hard to get in the mid-20s right out of college. Of course there are success stories but…in general the first year or two out is, most likely, going to be lowish as you try to get traction. So after rent (which can be high in cities), utilities, insurance, food, transportation…is there an extra $200 to $300 for a loan? The time right out of college is CRITICAL to get traction and debt can prevent you from taking certain growth opportunities and/or require you work so many hours you are just too tired to gig.
I remember my D telling me sometime in the fall that she had to deposit her check as she only $20 in the bank! Yikes…remember those days. And she has no debt. She does have a healthy savings account (thanks grandma and grandpa) which she tries not to touch…but her income can fluctuate quite a bit from month to month so yea…$20…lol.
AND BTW…congratulations on all the wonderful acceptances and scholarships! There are so many I can’t keep up.
The diverse points of view on the subject of money reflect there are many paths to the end goal. Of course we all agree that no debt is better than debt, and less expensive is better than more expensive.
I am currently looking for second year scholarship money from as many sources as possible. If anyone knows of scholarships or grants for second year music students, I’d really appreciate it.
Congratulations to all for the acceptances/accomplishments of your kids. I was so happy to have survived the long arduous process last year with my son, that I wasn’t sure I could revisit this site without a blood pressure spike. I’m sure many will agree that not only is the process daunting but the interactions with your kid are stressful as well.
@SpartanDrew, I found out that his meal plan is not unlimited but most kids have plenty of swipes left over. He on the other ran short because he eats nonstop. He claims his workouts at the gym require him to eat more. He was short 3 meals!
Congrats on your D’s success. Sound like she really enjoys her school and NYC.
As y’all get to the phase where your kids will be turning down programs (and teachers) to attend another school, here’s an anecdote to encourage the sending of polite emails or calling the teachers who they are turning down. You hear that the music community is small (and even smaller per instrument), but it really is true. My S18 really liked a certain classical voice teacher but decided on another school. He kept in touch with that teacher throughout the process, and let him know how appreciative he was of the teacher’s interest, while explaining his ultimate choice. Only 6 months later or so, S18 had entered a voice competition where the same teacher was one of two judges. The teacher complemented S18 on his progress, gave him some great feedback, and advanced him to the finals of the competition. Would that have still happened if S18 had never contacted the teacher again after making his college choice? Perhaps he still makes the finals, but it would not have been the same warm interaction. And I have a feeling S18 will run into this teacher again and again over the years.
@vistajay - great advice! I have seen that scenario happen again and again. It truly is small world.
@Universitymomof2 - congrats! And we want to see the video! Our pilot daughter got a cute one from one of her acceptances in North Dakota - the personalized ones are so great!
Thanks for all of the feedback about how much debt. We invested heavily in our daughter for the past 2 years (moved, paid for her to live in LA and study with the best jazz instructors, summer programs, etc) so I hope that the scholarships come in. I keep telling my husband that the last 2 years were an investment - so I hope it turns out to be the case or I’ll have to eat my words We have invested about $1,500 a month (a room in LA, lessons, a car to drive her bass to lessons and practice room) so that’s almost been like college @ $18k a year. Regarding a conservatory - I like the idea of her not going beyond the federal loans (which total $27k fo the 4 years). We can help her some but with 3 in college next year, it won’t be a ton - certainly not $1,500 a month.
I know she doesn’t want to go into debt - but $27k in debt (federal loans) doesn’t seem like too much to me, even for a musician. We shall see what happens. Of course, $5,500 a year doesn’t cover much in a city. Housing alone is $2k a month at San Francisco Conservatory (for a shared closet)
The school that my son thought he didn’t like way back in November, Bob Cole Conservatory at CSULB, has turned into a school he’s strongly considering even though he still hasn’t been admitted because he just turned in his audition video a week ago.
He drove up there last evening and spent about 3 hours with the cello prof and his cello studio. The head of the strings popped his head in to say hello, and then today, my son got a long email from that guy letting my son know that the cello prof really wants my son and espousing the virtues of the school.
So now my son realizes that in order to make an informed decision, he really needs to revisit several of the schools (like CSU Fullerton, which gave him more than a full-tuition scholarship) and spend some time there so he can get a feel for them.
My son has low energy and he’s back in school for the first time in 2 years, so I’m a little concerned about how he’ll manage this, but he really needs to do it.
He still hasn’t been admitted to the three schools that have conservatories, CSULB, Biola, and Chapman, but he seems to be leaning towards the idea of a conservatory-style experience.
Still, he’s going to take a lesson from the cello teacher at Concordia later in the month and I think he’ll schedule a revisit to Fullerton to check out the cello studio students.
SDSU is a low priority since it’s local, but it is affordable and the teacher’s fantastic, so it’s still on the table.
@sbjdorlo - I LOVE that your son is revisiting some schools. I think that the audition trail is one where these kids learn what they are looking for more than anything. Up until the tours and particularly the audition, it’s just hypothetical, pie in the sky impressions of a school, or even what they are looking for.
I think our daughter’s list would have been larger had she done more tours and practice lessons at some schools. After all, the most important thing (IMO) are the instructors they will be working with.
Anyone have any thoughts about whether or what my son should do in response to the following. He went for an interview (no audition) for the computer music program at a small conservatory. He wrote the professors afterward thanking them for their time and expressing interest in the program. He didn’t hear anything for two weeks and then today he received an email from the two professors he interviewed with. The gist of the email was that they were very impressed with his interview and that they enjoyed listening to the music he submitted with his application. They also offered their availability if he would like to talk with either of them about their teaching styles, the future of computer music at their school, the current class, or anything else that he might like to discuss. I feel like he should definitely respond in some way but not sure what as he already had written a note to them after his interview. Any one have any thoughts about this situation as he isn’t in a traditional conservatory track where he could have a lesson and through that process get to know a professor and have the professor get to know him a bit.
Thanks
@Leao114 My recommendation to my son has been - if he has any questions or needs info, he should write back and set up time to talk, otherwise write back thanking them for the offer and suggest that he’ll reach out if he needs to talk more, but that he’s available if the professors have any questions for him, as they make their decisions on admission and scholarships, etc.
@Leao114 Sounds like they are gauging interest, yes? That’s good news! If he’s already met them, he could simply thank them for the offer, reiterate that he enjoyed meeting them, and say he will definitely reach out with further questions if any. If the conservatory is nearby, would he want to sit in on a lesson?
@Leao114 - Is this school one of your S’s top picks? If so, I think it might be good to demonstrate continuing and genuine interest beyond the nice note he sent after the interview. Right about now a lot of professors are trying to gauge level of interest as they allocate scholarships. D has had several professors reaching out and wanting to talk to her. It’s a little stressful for her since she doesn’t know what to say without having complete offers, so we suggested that she write down a couple of questions she could ask about the studio. It’s a way to express interest and show you are thoughtful without having to commit to anything. She’s talked to a couple of professors now, and in all cases, it turned out to be very positive, and she was able to pick up a little extra information beyond what she learned at the audition (or on the website )
I think they are trying to inspire interest on your son’s part, be welcoming, in the hopes he chooses them. Which is good! And also offering to help him pick which studio he wants to be in. Is it close by? Can he take them up on the offer or at least write that he would like to at some point?
We have invested about $1,500 a month (a room in LA, lessons, a car to drive her bass to lessons and practice room) so that’s almost been like college @ $18k a year. Regarding a conservatory - I like the idea of her not going beyond the federal loans (which total $27k fo the 4 years). We can help her some but with 3 in college next year, it won’t be a ton - certainly not $1,500 a month.