Class of 2023 undergrad/Class of 2021 grad: The Tours, the Auditions, the Journey

College Majors Music Major
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Khill87——— Manhattan School of Music had absolutely one day for live auditions for my son’s instrument and offered no “recorded” audition option. SFCM had two weekends in February but it was 1-1/2 day long (Saturday afternoon to Sunday evening). Peabody had three full days for Jazz. However, my son was assigned a day he really couldn’t do (conflict with international music tour, not with other college live auditions) even though he did request other two days in online application form plus follow up emails. Peabody responded positively and offered him a “recorded audition” option but instead, my son chose being on waitlist for a week, then Peabody rescheduled him when someone canceled audition time slot that worked for him.

If some of your daughter’s colleges don’t require pre-screening, submitting online applications much earlier than deadline may give her more audition day options (if schools offer multiple days for live auditions).

It was magical how it all worked out. All of my son’s friends who auditioned more colleges than my son also managed just fine. So, I am very convinced it would all work out.

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Khill87—— I want to add one more thing…Many schools seem having live auditions in weekend (Saturdays and / or Sundays) but some colleges have a week(s) for live auditions which includes all weekdays. Berklee (I am not sure about BOCO) had both Saturdays (Boston) and weekdays (seemed like weekdays were for regionals), MSM and Peabody had a live audition week (one or a little longer than one week) in February to March. Juilliard, Manne and NYU, too in late February to Early March. Usually, those NYC music schools have a live audition week in the same week. If I remember correctly from reading posts here, NEC had only limited audition day or two (weekends). If you can avoid scheduling your business trips between mid January to Early March, it would work fine.

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@khill87 — I looked at all the schools’ previous audition schedules, and adjusted them for the current year keeping same days of the week—this was very accurate, except for one school that changed one audition weekend due to faculty availability. We probably scouted out nine schools in summer but narrowed that down to six. In the end, we scheduled one audition in November, one in January, three in February, and one the first weekend of March. We later canceled the last two. I don’t recommend that but it was clear to my daughter that these two schools did not rank above ones where she’d auditioned and/or been accepted.

We drove to all except one school to which she flew (my brother lived nearby and could pick her up). It is useful to apply by November 1st or earlier (I think my D submitted hers between September 30-October 15) because dates are not available at many schools until after apps are in.

4604

Several more questions to all of you 2023 parents: I am trying to determine the importance of squeezing in a couple more school visits and sample lessons for D this fall, or possibly some Skype lessons if a visit is out of the question in terms of time or money.

Here are my questions: Did you get around to all of the schools your child applied to for a visit prior to applying? If not, did you feel adversely impacted by not having a sample lesson at some of the schools your child applied to? (Impact on either admission or scholarship funding…) Did you do any remote lessons via Skype, and how did those go?

Here’s where we are: We’ve worked hard to narrow down a list that initially had about 30 “possibles” on it. D has done 6 sample lessons in person, and visited 3 other schools where she did not have a sample lesson. However, there has been some rearranging of the “short list” and her current list of 9 (which hopefully may fall to 7 or 8) now includes 4 which she has neither visited nor done a sample lesson. (Of the other 5, she has 3 where she visited and did a lesson and 2 with a visit, but no sample lesson (although at one of those she did a three-week program, so it was an extended “visit” it just wasn’t meeting actual faculty).

Obviously in an ideal world we’d go everywhere, but she’s had a busy summer of 7 weeks of full time music study, with no time for extra travek. Both time and money are limiting factors in the fall, especially given that we could have a lot of auditions to budget for after prescreens.

If it matters, of the 4 we haven’t been to, one is a university with a school of music, 2 are conservatories attached to universities , and one is an independent conservatory. There is potential for merit aid at all four of them. All of these involve flights and two require hotels. Should we prioritize several or not worry about it at this point?

(As background, D is a vocalist. Getting a “feel” for the campus and the teacher is pretty important to her – she seems to have trouble gleaning much meaningful info from school websites. It might help us narrow her applications a bit if she visited and didn’t love it – that actually happened at a top school with wonderful facilities but what seemed to us like a weird vibe, and we were relieved to definitively cross it off the list. Also, she’s a bit shy and reserved when she’s not performing, so not sure if she will come across as well on Skype OR be able to get as good a sense of the teacher. On the other hand, she has some good accomplishments on paper and once she starts singing, it’s all good, so maybe they will cut her some slack if she doesn’t shine on Skype, and perhaps she’ll be able to tell more about them on Skype than I think!)

Any advice you have would be most welcome!

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My son applied to 4 private music conservatories plus 1 private conservatory which we begged him to apply with “recorded audition” with no intentions to attend but for additional financial option to compare all offers, so total 5 private conservatories. He knew / toured / took summer programs at 3. He got accepted to 2 of those 3. He also got accepted to 2 other conservatories which he didn’t tour / visit at all (due to very limited time and $$$). No sample lessons at any conservatories because my son thought that it wouldn’t make any differences for his case. He believed (and still believes) live auditions were the most important factor for acceptances and talent scholarships. He received good scholarships (50% tuition & up) from all conservatories. However, he had the best live auditions (out of 4 live auditions) at one conservatory where he knew some faculty but had no prior campus tour. The conservatory became his top choice after his live audition / visit and it offered him the biggest amount of talent scholarship (not financial need-based).

Knowing faculty may be helpful, just in case, if live auditions didn’t go well. So sample lessons might be good to do, particularly at campus to get feel of schools. My son never had “online / Skype” lessons so I can’t tell about it. In mid October of my son’s senior year, he crossed off 2 conservatories (1 was his safety) in his short list which he toured in his sophomore year. Campus tours helped him to eliminate two unsure or unfitted schools even though it was a very last-minute change. It made our live audition season much simpler physically and financially so he could focus on live auditions that resulted having one of best auditions ever.

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@khill87, the schools my son applied to fell into all of the categories you mention. Some he visited prior to applying and met with music faculty when he could during his visits, but he did not take any lessons prior to applying. He had lessons with teachers at some of those schools when he was back on campus for auditions. In one case the teacher he wanted a lesson with was not available while on campus, so he had a Skype lesson with him a few days after his audition. Some schools he applied to he never visited and didn’t take a lesson even when on campus for auditions. In the end, the results were not correlated with whether or not he had a lesson. He got into some schools he had lessons at and some he never visited prior to applying. He also did not get into a school where he did have a lesson. In short, I don’t think you should stress about visiting every school prior to applying. I would instead try to schedule a lesson when in town for the audition.

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@khill87 short answer: I wouldn’t worry about it at this point. You’ve done a lot of research and your D has a good sense of what works and what doesn’t. From here, you will be best served by preparing for those auditions, getting past the prescreens, and seeing the schools during audition day! My experience with six kids, including my one music kid, is that their sense of what they want changes a lot between junior and senior year anyway. As an example, my S visited one large university and loved it, while feeling a smaller but more elite conservatory was too small and lacked a campus feel. Fast forward to audition day, when the university ran a less professional audition and he was less impressed with the people he met there than at the conservatory. Both gave him substantial merit aid, but guess which one he picked? In the end, the quality of faculty he met at the auditions (not through lessons, just through being there) and the quality of the other students he met outside the audition rooms weighed far more than the beautiful campus. I never would have guessed that when he was a junior. So I would say, forge ahead! Get the essays and paperwork out of the way in August, if possible, and head confidently into the auditions. You may be amazed at how your D’s perceptions change.

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Thank you jejeje and lkbux 64 – this is very reassuring! And I didn’t realize it was possible to do a lesson when visiting for auditions. Maybe we will just focus on nailing the apps and the prescreens this fall and not worry about traveling until she has to audition, and schedule lessons with teachers then.

4609

this is reassuring bc i only visited 3 schools and i really liked all 3 after visiting with them. I did a summer music program at al large university but the school doesn’t feel right for me so i’m not applying. I’m on the east coast so i am planning on seeing schools if i’m lucky to get past prescreens and audition there.

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@khill87 , my vocalist son did sample lessons at several schools the day before his live audition. I think it is better to do a sample lesson on a separate visit because the teacher will have more time and the student will be able to concentrate on whether the teacher and school is a good fit, rather than worrying about the upcoming audition; but I think it is better than not having a sample lesson at all. At USC, my son thought he did not sing well in the Friday sample lesson and he did not really connect with the teacher. But he thought he sang well in the Saturday live audition, the teacher complemented his audition performance and later invited him to join the teacher’s studio after admittance. So the pro of the Friday sample lesson before the audition was he got some of his jitters out of the way. The con was if he’d done a lesson at another time he might have felt differently about the teacher, which ultimately affected his decision.

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@khill87 We also did not visit every school before applying. It all works out and things do change quite a bit along the way as @akapiratequeen said. I also wanted to add another possibility. Maybe you can add a private lesson during accepted student visits if your child still needs more clarity after auditions. Relax for the next few weeks and recharge so that you will be ready for the fall.

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@khill87 - We did a combo of visiting and coming in ‘cold’ at the audition. Kid only did a formal private lesson at one school because I didn’t want to fly back and do one later. That one he did the day before his audition and he was also able to hang out with the other percussion students and get a feel for the camaraderie.

The schools he visited before auditioning he made sure to meet with the faculty which helped to narrow down some choices. In addition, a couple of his auditions were really long and acted like a sample lesson so he was able to decide without having to do it again. Try to enjoy the summer before the application/prescreen process kicks in.

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@khill87, violinist dad here (2022). My S applied to 13 schools (phew, had to go back to old email to figure that out :slight_smile: - seems such a long time ago already, but gets my adrenalin going every time I look through them). A combination of conservatories and Universities much like your child.
Of the schools S ended up applying to, he was really serious about five of them. Of the five, he had trial lessons before the audition at two (and was accepted at both), and rejected at one (primarily we believe because of professor choice - high demand prof, and then you become 2nd/3rd priority for any other professor). The final decision was between these two schools, one a uni and the other a conservatory - he ended up at Uni.
At a couple of the others that he was serious about, he met professors post audition & acceptance (making trips to the school a month after auditions - luckily timing worked out).
He had video auditions at three (accepted at all 3, no profs met), regional at 2 (accepted at both), and simply dropped out of 3 due to audition fatigue - that’s a real thing, akin to PTSD (I don’t mean to misappropriate the term, but the stress does get to you).
Also, video and regional auditions had no impact on scholarships we believe, since he got money at most schools he applied to (ranging from 15% to about 75% of tuition).
Meeting professors and making connections before the audition (or at least after), helps mainly in making the decision to go to a school (or not). I don’t believe it will help with a bad audition. So if serious about a school, I strongly recommend getting a lesson - this is a decision that will affect the next 4 years, and possibly much longer.
You’re way ahead of the curve in your prep - we’re an engineer family and did not know what it took, and didn’t really get started on the process till fall of senior year. Good Luck !

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Do the best you can with the time and money available. You will not hit 100% on everything. It’s best to shoot for maybe 80% and let the rest go (keeps the stress level down for you AND your kid). Remember not everyone can even afford to travel to all auditions (some use video auditions). So there is no expectation that you must visit twice to get an acceptance and/or scholarship…or even find the right school. Just do your best…and know that it’s good enough.

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Wish we could somehow copy and paste today’s flurry of messages over on the 2024 journey thread. These are VERY helpful questions and answers. I will never tire of advice from these veterans! I hang on their every word. :wink: Hopefully new parents will find this information as well. Feels like things are starting to get real!

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I have a question for experienced with prescreens. my voice teacher said we can do the prescreens right in her room. but feel like its too cramped/ i would really like to find a church. I have an accompanist. do you think it really makes a difference where you do your prescreens? do i wear a formal type dress?

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@musicchoir, with respect to locations for prescreen recordings, my son shot his at his music school. The camera was steadily focused on him against a pretty plain backdrop. I would suggest you do your prescreens where you feel most comfortable. If you’d feel inspired by shooting in a church, go for it! But the videos in your voice teacher’s room would be fine as well. My son dressed for prescreens the same way he dressed for live auditions – he wore a suit and tie. Maybe it’s a jazz thing, but that was the approach he took (and what he wears for most gigs).

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Musicchoir——If you can afford, you can rent a recording studio. It would be less stress. Church might be nice if acoustic sound is good and you feel good with it. Getting a help from your voice teacher is great. Some people in this particular thread have great equipments and tips to record by themselves. We did hire a recording specialist and recorded in his basement but we did get a help to synch videos and audios. So, my son’s prescreening videos had some cramped objects in background. He didn’t dress up except clean comfortable clothes (shirt-out) / shoes. He scheduled two sessions in 4 weeks apart (September and October) as he planned and he ended up choosing all recorded tunes from his second recording session with a different accompanist. It might be a good idea to plan and schedule two recording sessions in advance. You can always cancel the second one if the first one satisfies you. I did prefer to be perfect, recording in a professional studio with headphones with “professional” rhythm section (my son is jazz) in nice clothes to show professionalism / seriousness. Well, my son didn’t agree with any of those. After all, it didn’t matter at all for his case. None of his music conservatories cared except getting ideas of his music level and playing style.

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I’m lurking here in preparation. My kid is entering 11th next year. Kid will be attending a prestigious precollege all day Saturday classical program for the next two years, and a prestigious all day jazz program on Sundays. How in the world am I going to get the kid to any live audition dates if they’re mostly on the weekends? Kid absolutely cannot miss any of the Saturdays (is there on scholarship), and we both don’t want kid to miss the Sunday jazz program. I’m thinking that we could probably do try out lessons in August, after music camp is over. But of course kid still has to audition. Kid cannot be the first person in this situation. Any advice?

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My biggest advice with recording the prescreen – particularly if you’re not going to spend the $$$ on a fancy studio and/or pro recording equipment – is that before you get to actually recording the pre-screen videos for submission, record as many performances as you can with your planned set-up (camera, mic, tripod, etc.) in as many different acoustical settings as possible, then listen to them and view them critically. This will give you the best idea of how to set up your equipment, what works best, and what doesn’t work at all.

Our son is a jazz drummer, but even if you’re child is a classical violinist or vocalist, much of the following can/will still be applicable (we got advice from older students from both classical and jazz genres, and incorporated that into our set up). In the end, we recorded prescreens as follows:

  • Got access to an auditorium at university with good middle-of-the road acoustics (not too live and bright, not too dead)
  • Canon 80D DSLR in video mode mounted on a tripod was stationary and placed about 10 rows back, zoomed in so that the entire combo was visible but just barely so, with drums placed in the middle
  • audio recorded with Rode stereo mic plugged directly into the camera

We did the recordings on two different days with a full week or so in between sessions. That gave everyone a chance to digest what we liked and didn’t about the first session (both with the performance and recording). Son ended up using takes from both sessions for all of his school submissions. They obviously worked – he was 100% (5 for 5) for live audition invitations at the schools to which he applied requiring pre-screens: USC Thornton, Miami Frost, NYU Steinhardt, The New School, and CSULB Bob Cole. (Amusingly, Peabody Conservatory @ Johns Hopkins didn’t ask for a pre-screen video and that’s the school he’s decided to attend).

A couple of related notes:

  • Most of the other members of the combo recorded their pre-screens at the same sessions using my set-up. The sax player is going to USC Thornton, the bass player was accepted to SF Conservatory (but as I understand it will instead be taking a gap year), and the guitarist went a non-musical route to college. Key takeaway: the set up worked for multiple jazz instruments, not just drums.
  • My son played for many of his friend’s pre-screen set ups, all of which were different than ours. On one extreme, the sax player used a teaching studio w/ very live acoustics and recorded using nothing but an iPad: she sent it to a bunch of big-name schools and got accepted by everywhere she applied except USC Thornton, and decided to University of North Texas; on another extreme, multiple people paid $$$ for pro sound engineers and videographers and rented a fancy L.A. recording studio; they got into all sorts of big name schools.

I’ve heard many classical musicians be a bit more vigilant about their mic set ups, using multiple mics hooked up to a separate digital audio recorder separate from a camera – but do the video somewhere in their house and use an iPad to capture the video.

Hope that helps.