Thank you @diglass and @PAPDAD. We’ve decided to let him drop the school with the classical. Most of his other auditions require a classical piece, and as a music ed double major he expects to continue learning classical, so it wasn’t that. I think the combination of not having any senior faculty devoted exclusively to jazz, not seeing it represented fully in the audition, and the way the admissions director and faculty brushed off his query when he asked about it created too many red flags. In one of his essays, S wrote about his belief that school music programs were ill-served by over reliance on a set canon of classical work. So it really bothered him.
It bothered me for another reason, too, and I’m trying to put my finger on it. Like most music kids, S has done many extracurricular camps, honor bands and the like. This year he’s participating for the first time in a regional jazz band that’s an offshoot of a well-known youth symphony in our area. I’ve been unpleasantly surprised by how condescending the administrative staff and organizers have been towards the jazz ensemble. At a parent volunteer meeting, one organizer explained that jazz parents were encouraged to donate time and money to the annual gala even though it was “of course” a classical event. She added that there was “a chance the jazz ensemble could play in the lobby before people went in.” S loves the director so I kept him in the program but that kind of thing is a huge turnoff for me.
So we’re down to four definite auditions and two additional prescreens. Nerve wracking. Now I see why people recommend you start out with at least 8-10 schools!
I don’t know much about any of this but I do know quite a bit about the contemporary classical composition world, where genres are sometimes blurred and jazz and contemporary classical (“new music”) can merge.
There may be some schools were jazz is respected but there is an intent to keep options open in terms of this intersection and synergy between genres- and between improvisation and composition.
For examples, google Vijay Iyer (teaches at Harvard), Tyshawn Sorey (recent MacArthur grant winner, teaches at Wesleyan), and George Lewis (teaches at Columbia).
Some schools may want the broadest possible education for undergraduates, which may include some classical for jazz students, so that they can dwell in the growing gray areas between the two- or, as Sorey’s bio puts it, that “in-between zone” where some really interesting things are happening.
@compmom I totally agree with this approach! And so does S, I know. The problem has come where he feels that certain programs are provincial or insular in their refusal to consider the impact of contemporary (especially jazz) music. That’s the vibe he was getting from this one school. Totally different than, say, Eastman or Rutgers or Ithaca, all of which have full-fledged jazz studios (and all of which also, appropriately, have classical requirements).
On another subject: to anyone who hasn’t done so, please contact @“Mezzo’sMama” and let her know your S or D’s audition schedule. You should private message her with the following info:
S or D’s prospective major/degree (eg BM composition or BA Music)
Instrument or voice type
Name of school/date of confirmed audition
Name/date
Name/date
I’m not sure why it is called the prescreen thread, but this list of schools and audition dates is a huge service to future applicants. I used it as my bible in deciding which schools to apply to (looked at students with a similar background to mine), scheduling (dates don’t change much from year to year), whether schools offered early action or early decision, etc. So please add your student’s information now that auditions are being set.
Later @“Mezzo’sMama” will update this thread to provide acceptances, which are also hugely helpful to those who come later. It’s a great service but only works if we all participate.
@akapiratequeen I think it’s totally fine to drop schools that aren’t feeling right. My kid has a long list and he is doing classical, and I have 3 schools on that list I’m on high alert for inconsistent info from different people in faculty or potential poor fit because my classical VP applicant isn’t the “I live to sing opera” type and getting the vibe it’s not ok to have a wide variety of musical interests. Figuring out the non-fits is part of the process right? I have a feeling I know what school it is. LOL.
I will definitely list my kid’s prescreens as we get them! We have so many to hear from yet, I was hoping to have more info before we got on the boards! I might hold for another week. Last year’s thread is so helpful to us!
My kid has some essays to write yet this month! I can’t wait for him to finish up with his 3 CC classes. Not to mention he’s in this 6 week regional theater run that is dominating our days until the end of the month. Whew. No rest for the weary.
I’m waiting to hear from more before posting - so far only 1 audition done and 1 prescreen passed. S’s email address specifically set up for college applications automatically forwards incoming mails to my personal email inbox, so these days I can’t help checking emails much more frequently…like being addicted. Seems we parents are the ones experiencing those emotional ups and downs on our roller coaster while the kids are staying calm and cool on the ground.
‘Don’t get too excited just yet,’ S remarked.
"You sounded like a parent. Have we swapped roles?’ I queried.
I definitely feel like S and I have swapped roles! I’m eagerly checking email and worrying about deadlines while he saunters along (at least outwardly). He’s thrilled to have two extra weeks now that he’s dropped the early January audition, while I can’t wait to get them over with. He doesn’t seem to be worrying about the prescreen results, he’s just glad they’re done and feels he did a decent job. I’m pretty sure his attitude is the healthier one, especially since there is nothing we can do to accelerate the process!
And @MusakParent, thanks for your wise counsel. In my gut I feel that S will be fine with six or even four schools, just as, in my gut, I know there’s relatively little he can do at this point to improve his chances. Of course he can refine his audition repertoire and practice his sight reading, but it’s taken him many years to become the musician he is today and that’s not going to change fundamentally in the next three months. He’s focused, talented and loves what he does; he’s worked hard; he has the makings of a gifted educator. I have to believe he will find his place.
Hmmmm - on the sight-singing sight-reading associated with auditions… Does anyone really know how/if that is factored into undergrad admissions or scholarship decisions? I remember my singer going off after several auditions to meet a TA/grad student who put her through her paces in this area, but thought it had more to do with future placement in theory and aural skills classes.
I know it’s scary when colleges drop from the list but I do think it’s part of the whole process and it helps students to arrive at the college home that is “meant to be.” I was glad when Clive Davis was dropped but then she added New School so I guess it balanced out.
I’m on the fence about CalArts @tripletmama. Not sure it would be a good fit for my daughter. She did get all application materials in and they sent an email saying they would be scheduling auditions soon. We won’t be able to do a campus visit, so we are depending upon reviews and how she feels at the audition. Acceptance rate is less than 25% so it’s not a given she will even get accepted, let alone get scholarship money (it’s not cheap!) but she did want to have an artsy college close to LA on her list so it will remain on there for now. Is your daughter’s friend in the “performer-composer” program at the Herb Albert Music School? That’s the major she would be auditioning for. I know it’s a pretty small school, around 1000 students. I get nervous when programs are listed as “composer” as opposed to “songwriter” because I feel that my daughter is a great songwriter but scoring music is not her thing. Am I interpreting the “composer/songwriter” distinction properly? For example, she considered SUNY Purchase but they offer “Studio Composition” and I had a sense it was very techy and involved complicated composition stuff. She definitely needs more artsy, creative and song-writing based programs.
How do you all feel about those Niche reviews? I do find them helpful and noticed that some of the lesser known schools on my daughter’s list have better “post college” ratings for average salary and employment rate. But I know stats can be manipulated in many ways, so I guess we have to consider it with that in mind.
@buoyant I think it’s different for each school. Some say it’s strictly a placement thing but others seem to factor it into the audition assessment, although I’m sure far less important than musical talent.
Berklee audition is tomorrow. Everything worked well with the backing track and she seems prepared and fairly calm. I will encourage her to read through the audition page a few additional times, but will conduct a “mock audition” with her later as wisely suggested here. I will keep you all posted on how things go.
@buoyant … totally agree. It could be a classical thing…but I was surprised to see an indication that good sight-reading could up your scholarship (unless the musician was trying to say that having very strong skills overall will produce a strong audition…in that case of course yes it matters…it all matters…but a strong sight-reading test on its own?..not sure about that).
Based on my limited experience, the sight-reading part and/or theory portions were done with older students or on paper. They were often presented as a placement check (but maybe it could be a pass/fail in more extreme cases). To base a scholarship on a 5-10 minute check by an older student (I remember this at Lawrence and there are no grad students there) …doesn’t seem possible. But maybe jazz auditions are different.
Sight -reading to me is like those tiresome, short essay questions that I’m quite sure NO one read (opinion). They have to be done adequately but that’s all (again opinion). Knowing my D’s UG teacher, she couldn’t have cared less what my D wrote in an essay or did in a theory test…but she loved her audition. Food for thought…but all teachers are different. I would just show your sight-reading skills as they are but really work on the audition.
Those are the 2 microphones I looked at from their site. By the time I read this I had an iq7 on the way. For a 1 time use it’s good enough. They phoned me after the purchase to say it was shipped (same day) and to introduce themselves as a company and see if I had questions. I wasn’t home so that was all on the machine.
Re: post 650 now I want that zoom but don’t think it will get here in time.
@MusakParent congratulations on the invite for UofMich. It was on our early list but didn’t think it would be affordable.
@PAPDAD congratulations on Baldwin Wallace. Our audition for music ed is February 16 there (got our confirmation).
@akapiratequeen I’ve got a few sight reading websites linked on another device. If you still need them I can attach them from there. My son never used them. He said he has his own ways of doing it but I think I found them n a college site.
We have five applications in and two auditions booked. One was recommended to apply EA so you have acceptance from school before you audition. One of the schools where auditions is set up is wanting his music teacher evaluation form. She is mailing that out. The only thing holding up application 6 is the music resume. Pre-screens still need to be submitted for two of those schools. I’m only worried about 1 of the 2. We have started setting up the accounts they email us to do, like acceptd for one of the schools. Then that leaves two applications that are not common app. That will be done tonight or tomorrow. The last I’m not sure. He doesn’t want to do 8 auditions so I’m scheduling his least favorite school last so he can drop it if he hears from somewhere else but I don’t know if that will happen going all regular decision. I want the local school audition done first to get the nerves out and because I’m not super worried about that school.
My parental view on the process and the year or so after entry into the program for jazz is that sight reading is extremely important. I wasn’t sure to chime in about any particular impact of sight reading on scholarship, but it seemed like we were starting to downplay the importance of sight reading more than I could let pass.
I feel like I should use more words to express how important I feel this is. It is very normal in jazz that if you don’t already have songs memorized in your head, you need to be able to look at the sheet music, among people you have not played with before and start playing it with less or much less than 1 minute of time looking at the sheet.
@UniversityMomOf2 UMichigan is definitely a financial reach here but when we visited they specifically said they do have music merit money to work with and I have heard of a few people getting generous offers out of SMDT. I actually think that would be a better grad option for my kid but that’s an easy audition to schedule (it may fit in with a 1 or 2 other auditions for a road trip). And who knows, maybe he’ll get through no other prescreens. LOL. The wait is making me loopy. My kid is so laid back about it. My kid’s piano teacher went to Michigan for grad school and is a big fan.
One good thing about getting through the UMichigan “prescreening” process in particular for us is that when we visited we were told that prior to being invited to audition you were academically screened. If you were invited to audition you need not worry about being rejected later for academic reasons. After that it was all program needs and audition at that point. My kid is applying as a homeschooler so he has a homegrown portfolio and transcript. Which does include a community college transcript and a great ACT score and is probably WAY more information than any school actually wants. But I do feel like if he can get through Michigan which isn’t particularly known for being homeschool/alt-school friendly, hopefully that won’t be a barrier at other schools (though Northwestern is a question mark in this regard). I also felt like his other paperwork must look reasonably ok too (resume, rep list, etc). UMichigan’s music application did not include a recording/video actually for VP (though he sang for faculty on campus - so that must have gone reasonably well. He was asked about that on the app I believe.)
My kid’s music teachers have consistently told him he has an advantage as a VP applicant that can play advanced piano and can sight sing quite well. I know one of his music reference letters calls that out. I’ve seen a lot of schools recommend students pick up theory or piano the summer before entry into a music program or have online portals to get students some background in those areas. I wouldn’t sweat it at this point going into auditions and the focus should of course be the audition but all music skills you bring to the table are good right?! I can see how a program might reward a strong student they know can hit the ground running and be a leader in ensembles working new music. But I’m sure if you can sight read to the moon and back that doesn’t make up for a otherwise poor audition by any stretch. I get the feeling especially in vocal programs strong readers are a rarity. Last month at kid’s EA audition he had a theory/sight sing/aural screen and the faculty told the group up that it’s hard and it’s fine if you don’t do well and joked that no one could sight sing the harder selections, etc. My kid thought it was pretty easy. It was actually a great confidence builder for him! It’s so hard going into these things blind. It’s nice to have one behind him anyway.
Congrats! This is great news, @MusakParent ! The UMich program is amazing.
The waiting is making me loopy, too. NYU hasn’t even responded to acknowledge receipt of the prescreen video or provide dates or additional information (although we got a form letter from Acceptd when we submitted the video). Not one single correspondence about anything in their program. We even wrote specifically to an admissions counselor on the advice of a friend in the program — no reply in over a month. Really surprising.
Re: the sight reading, a lot of great insights. I am sure it’s important and it’s definitely an asset! My original question was more about how to help my S, who is a good sight reader, not fall apart from nerves in the audition. Surprisingly, he felt he did worse with sight reading and theory, both of which are very strong areas for him, then in the rest of it. I’m surmising that he just needs to practice the basics so he’ll feel as confident about that on the spot as he does about his playing.
We’ve had some non-acknowledgments from music programs too! Our state flagship for one. And on the academic side he’s been accepted, been offered honors program, and got a substantial academic scholarship. So we’re getting e-mails (and regular mail too) from the college side now constantly. They invited him to a basketball game (it’s a big 10 school). Haha - my kid will not be attending! Invite him to some off the wall music or theater performances and he’ll show! And if he doesn’t get into the school of music there well it’s all for naught most likely.
CMU which was also through Accptd did not send acknowledgment either. I at least appreciate the “we got your stuff - be patient because we’ll keep you waiting as long as possible” e-mails! Michigan actually e-mailed to confirm something on his app which was really nice! Waiting waiting waiting!
Oberlin sent an e-mail yesterday about a summer program that got us really excited for about 3 seconds! His EA audition school sent a mail yesterday that about sent kid reeling because it insinuated he never visited campus, wasn’t applying EA, and needed to interview (all incorrect!). Oi. We got that straightened out!
1.). Audience: I do make the assumption that people on this board are/have talented kids. Most have strong creditials so when I say that you only need to be “adequate” … that means within the talented pool. I run with a group that trains for marathons. You need to have a base…that’s made clear. Anyone who shows up for a first time is already experienced and treated as such. A short run is 9 miles. It’s the same here. I assume a certain amt of experience in all including sight-reading. I also assume that kids are practicing all aspects. So the “relax comments” are typically made to an audience who I assume tends to be “over-achievers”. The main reason people fail at a marathon (another group of disciplined, over-achievers) is not due to being under prepared, it’s most often due to over training…which cause injuries, illness, or bonking…due to inadequate rest and pacing. All conservatory/music school I’ve visited seem to be filled with over-achievers. So I do have that student in mind when commenting.
2.). Different genres: I don’t know how important sight-reading is for a jazz audition. I know for classical voice it is never presented as a deciding factor. My D had auditions where it was not checked. I don’t know if it’s a vocalist vs instrumentalist issue and/or Jazz vs classical. But for classical voice, it’s certainly good to be a strong candidate in all…but is it necessary for an acceptance?..probably not. @MusakParent experienced what we experienced at Lawrence. It is not presented as critical. My D felt the “testing” was easy too. However I’m getting the feeling it’s different in other types of auditions. @GoForth would be the source for jazz.
3.). Mental preparation: from @akapiratequeen ‘s comments, I felt that the issue was not a skill issue but a “performance anxiety” issue. Common enough. And I think she answered her own question above. If anxiety is the issue, I would go to the teacher and hopefully the comfort of his current approach…as skill-wise it sounds like it works. Maybe some addl practice. But my comment to a parent would be not to “add fuel to the fire” of any anxiety…by suggesting new ways to study at this point. I would just let your kid know it’s normal and listen without the need to fix. If he’s really struggling with it I’d have him work with his teacher…as performance anxiety is common and the teacher knows him best (but realize he may not pursue it with a teacher as you may just be an outlet for his worries…and there no need to act on the worries). My guess is he’s fine…just sharing worries with you. I don’t want to ADD any thing but some people do use rituals to keep performance anxiety at bay (my D does). She also use ear buds at auditions to be alone and keep centered. He could discuss tips with his teacher. The audition environment may be overwhelming for many personality types.
4.). While sight-reading may not be critical for a classical vocalists acceptance…it will be the first year. Many vocalists have some catch-up in theory etc. And I’ve seen it sink some ships in freshman year. So I didn’t intend to minimize the skill overall. It is critical during college. For the audition for classical voice, my feeling, and I could be wrong, is they are looking for vocal potential and performance ability. In most cases at this level sight-reading/singing at an adequate level can be improved…stage presence, performance abilities, and the vocal potential/sound…maybe not. This is opinion of course. But I agree with @MusakParent that strong sight-reading skills won’t matter if you are “stiff on stage”. How this relates to other genres I don’t know.
Well this is probably tooo long…but I am aware that I often do the “relax” and “believe” responses while others give more practical advice (which is always good). But I DO believe the mental aspect is very important, rarely discussed, and timely. And for practicality, you run the first 20 miles on your strength and training, you run the last 6 on your mental strength alone (bc your body is proven to be depleted). It’s amazing what your mind can do (with good training). You do need to visualize success and believe…maybe a good activity for December (when pre-screen worries will be ever-present). And if your kid hasn’t had “training” in this, they will most likely in college. In classical it is certainly discussed and my D has been assigned books on it.
And… lastly, based on all your backgrounds, I DO believe you’ll all get multiple acceptances. Happens every year…so relax!
I asked the question about the consideration of sight-singing and sight-reading for admissions/scholarships. Seems that this is a key distinction in the genres as @bridgenail mentioned above. I’d like to know whether it’s voice/instrumental or classical/jazz. My classical VP daughter is completing atonal theory now and the sight-singing and dictation absolutely depends on her deep knowledge of theory at this point. (At this school, theory replaces math credits for students pursuing double degrees. Arguable, but you get the idea.)
One of the jazz parents (maybe @tripletmama?) posted a link to a terrific article about approaches for successful undergrad jazz auditions and I remember thinking how strikingly different it was when compared to classical voice. Very impressive skills needed in terms of agility and memorization, etc.
It’s probably a consequence of having primarily one giant thread that readers will need to parse any advice carefully to see if it applies to their situation. Thanks to @GoForth for the clarification. Good luck to everyone!
Well audition #1 is in the books and we’re home safe and sound!
Fun but cold 24 hours in Boston as my D (drummer) did her Berklee audition today.
And for a bonus, we got to meet up with @AmyIzzy’s daughter and husband! What a great perk of this board to be able to share this craziness with some “familiar faces” even if we were meeting them for the first time in person.
The mechanics of how Berklee auditions work are super well known and documented on their site, so I won’t recap that all here other than to say yes that’s exactly how they run them. Prepared piece, bunch of “feels” for her to play, some sight reading, some ear training stuff where she had to identify chords and sing back notes, and even some playing with one of them on some tunes. She said (as have others) they seemed to throw a lot of stuff at her and kept ratcheting up the difficulty to see what she could handle. She said they were super nice, and she really enjoyed her time with her two auditioners.
I will say for other folks reading this in the future that her time at MSM Pre-College proved critical in getting her through a session like this as drummers don’t normally end up with a lot of theory/ear training skills in their “day jobs”. Not sure how essential schools consider these things for a drummer, but she felt great that she was able to handle them.
Interview afterward was nothing out of the ordinary. Just the standard battery of questions they tell you they will ask.
Logistics wise, we made this super easy by driving into town the night before and booking a room at a hotel within walking distance. Had some great meals, did some shopping, I did a tour of campus while they were waiting in the holding pen for the auditions as I hadn’t been to Berklee before.
Drove home tonight feeling good about the whole thing and excited to have one under our belt.
Now the waiting game begins, both to hear from Berklee and to hear about pre-screen results from other schools.
Thanks to all of you on these boards for helping us make this one go smoothly by sharing your stories over the last few years. Just doing our part to keep that cycle going.
Yay @DrummerDad18 ! This sounds exactly like S’s experience last weekend. We also came in the night before (no-brainer since he had to be there at 8 am) and stayed nearby. So glad your D enjoyed it—sounds like she knocked it out of the park!