A rising senior that plans to apply to Harvard has just found out that his class rank will be in the second decile. We are both curious how much that will hurt his chances. Other stats/facts:
SAT (CR/M/W): 780/800/780 = 2360
Subject Tests: Math 2 800, Chem 750, WH 770
AP Exams: AP WH 5, AP Chem 4
Rigor: Most rigorous available per guidance counselor
Major: Undecided
GPA: Unusual format
Class Rank: Grades from advanced 8th grade classes are used in the calculation of class rank, 2 ‘A-‘s in 8th grade kept student out of top decile. The school doesn’t report rank other than in deciles.
ECs: Strong performing arts resume including professional work
This is not the typical chance thread. Just curious how much people think the second decile rank will hurt chances for admissions.
Also, very well aware that Harvard is a longshot for everyone, a lot more info is needed for a full analysis, people on CC don’t have all the answers, etc That’s why I’m just eliciting opinions on the class rank issue.
Good point. I know it would be helpful to indicate the school, but I didn’t in order to shield the student’s identity. I guess its ok to say that its not a school like the first 4 you mentioned; its a strong public school - highly rated but not the absolute top of the heap either. Students outside the top decile do typically go to very selective schools, but not usually HYPSM.
With the exception of recruited athletes or the equivalent, I haven’t seen anyone get into Harvard from a good public school with a class rank much outside the top 1%. (Not counting places like Stuyvesant of Thomas Jefferson.) One of my kids’ classmates was admitted SCEA a while ago when he was ranked #7 in a class of 550 (about 25 of whom were accepted at Ivies or near equivalents), but if you had taken a poll of who was the smartest kid in the class he would have won going away. He probably gained a couple of places at least during his senior year, too. His GPA/class rank reflected some ESL issues early in high school.
That said, I doubt Harvard has a knee-jerk reaction to class rank. The OP’s kid would probably be helped if other top students from the school also apply. If his recent grades in courses Harvard cares about are as good as or better than the others’, he will be treated like someone with top grades from that school. If not, not. I don’t think a couple of middle school A-s recorded on his 9th grade transcript will keep him out of Harvard, but the other grades that put him at risk of missing the first decile with those grades in the mix – that’s another story, and they may keep him out.
According to the Harvard Common Data Set, 95% of accepted students are in the top 10% of their high school class (http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2013-14.pdf). I imagine that students not ranked in the top 10% of their class have some sort of other factor that mitigates their ranking – recruited athlete, legacy, etc.
While Harvard doesn’t consider a student’s rank when making their decision, a student’s recommendation writer’s choice of words will usually allow an Admissions Director to understand where the student stands in the “pecking order” at their high school. After all, a teacher is not going to say the same things about a student who is ranked in the second decile, as they would for someone ranked second in their class. In the end, a student ranked in the second decile is probably rejected not because of their ranking, but because their teachers did not write a gob-smacking recommendation for the student.
It depends on the whole story, not just stats/rank. Sure, sometimes the easy choice is someone in the top 5%. But if you go straight to what Harvard itself tells that they look for (right on their web pages,) you can get an idea what truly distinguishes one tops stats kid from another, what “might” make a 2nd decile kid a good choice over some higher ranked kids.
Without that understanding, how does one even create a good app- over the hs years and when writing the app? You have to think like Harvard.
My takeaway is that there’s a consensus that a second decile rank is not a deal killer, but there better be a really strong app with mitigating circumstances for class rank. Thanks. Of course, I’m still still very open to additional thoughts on the original question.