<p>If you look at the data on the common app - alot of schools that send their kids to the elite colleges do not supply class rank. Last year I think only like 40% submitted class rank to Yale and 51% to Stanford, MIT 51 %. There are many school boards that have decided to eliminate class rank and have seen their admissions increase. I think this is especially true and extremely competitive high schools where fractions of a point seperate deciles.</p>
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<p>High school and college are educational institutions. While both care about your ability to contribute in some meaningful way to your community (whether that be at a soup kitchen or penning the next Great American novel), they are first and foremost places of learning. To flame class rank for not being a comprehensive measure of a person’s worth is to ask it to do something it can’t and shouldn’t. Class rank measures your academic achievement within a group–though, as indicated by this thread, it is debatable how well rank accomplishes that goal.</p>
<p>its ridiculous for universities to consider class rank. Because all you have to do to be 1 out of xxx is to go to a public school where everybody fools around.</p>
<p>My future high school is going to be uber competitive(Munster High School). Some of the private schools in our area would be like everyone sucks(Catholic High Schools) and you could get 4.00 #1 easily.</p>
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It’s even more ridiculous to make generalizations like that</p>
<p>If you look at common dataset information, the percentage of applicants from high schools that don’t rank is higher that you would think. As an example, the common dataset for Northwestern shows that class rank is “very important”. Yet only 47% went to schools that ranked. However, if you think that not having class ranking prevents a college from knowing where you stand in your class, you are mistaken. Most schools have a good history of applicants to draw upon and will have pretty good idea of where you stand. In addition, schools can look at all of the applicants from a particular HS and can develop an ad hoc ranking when considering applicants. All state universities will have a very good idea of class ranking for in-state high schools whether the school provides it or not. If 20 or 30 unranked kids from your HS apply to Northwestern, the adcom will still have a very good idea of where you stand in the class. If you are in Oregon and are the only applicant to Northwestern in the past few years they won’t have a sense of class rank and will be forced to rely upon other factors.</p>
<p>I agree with Harambee. A lot of people don’t have the choice to go to a competitive private school. Whether that be because of money or location or the philosophies of their families doesn’t matter. In no way does it mean they are choosing the easy way out. Just because a student goes to a public high school doesn’t mean they aren’t intelligent.</p>
<p>I think it probably mostly helps students with poor grades at a school with harsh grading. (For instance, my brother’s average is 89. He wants to go to Stanford. Unlikely, right? Well, I think the average grade at his school is about an 83, so maybe not so impossible.) At schools where very many students have high GPAs, adcoms probably just put less weight on grades and more on other parts of the applications.</p>
<p>Also, my school doesn’t rank but it’s very possible that I’m only like…70th. Out of 500. (I might be as high as ~30.) And I’m going to Harvard. And the other two kids going with me are ranked about the same. We’re all nationally/state-wide recognized humanities (me) or humanities and sports (them) recognized people, and we all busted a gut taking the hardest math and science courses, where we sometimes got Bs. </p>
<p>At our school, if you’re in the top 60% of a humanities course, you get an A. Well, I was first or second in all of my humanities courses. However, you need to be in the top 20-30% (WHO ARE ALL GOING TO MIT OR YALE IT IS RIDICULOUS…anyway) of a science or math class to get an A. Nope, I was about at the 50th percentile, with my big fat B. Schools use context. “All you have to do” is not go to a stupid public high school (we all had that choice, but are at a science magnet) and be ranked first. Adcoms understand that the difficulty of schools varies widely.</p>
<p>And what’s this about Harvard moving to SAT IIs? Source please?</p>
<p>I don’t know if anyone else’s school does this, but in terms of ranking at my school you have to have had at least one honors class to be in the top ten (I think that’s the only criteria). </p>
<p>To make this easier to compare, I’ll use myself as an example since I’m 8th in my class (GPA is roughly 3.9 W… we don’t use a 4.0 scale). </p>
<p>1) There are students with no honors classes at all, but their GPA’s are higher than mine. They’re still bright kids (especially compared with the people who continue to fail class after class when their workload is close to nothing), but the school defaults their ranks at 11, 12, etc. </p>
<p>2) I say “had to have had” because you can take one honors class freshman year, and none the next, but still remain in the top ten. One girl that is in my class’s top ten took one honors class last year and was ranked 6th, she took none this year (I think… if she took any, it’s still only one) and moved up to 5th. Then again, I am personally able to not really care about this because I know her very well and I know that she’d probably still have the same rank if she took all honors courses (she is a really intelligent girl)… the only thing I question is why she chose not to take any honors seeing as she’s more than capable of doing so.</p>
<p>3) Similar to #2… in my sister’s class, one kid took all honors freshman year, was ranked #6 after the first semester, and then dropped every single honors class. He still ended up graduating at #6.</p>
<p>While I think this system is slightly more fair in the sense that people can’t just take all easy classes freshman year to become #1 right off the bat, but it’s weird in the sense that someone could take the bare minimum of honors-level courses freshman year, drop them, and still be in the top ten. The other weird thing is that this policy has never actually been announced (not that it’s something shady the school is doing… it’s just never really discussed), so the students have pretty much been left to discover this on our own based on what certain people are ranked and what their GPA’s are.</p>
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I just found out that I am ranked in the top 12% of my class but I am not sure how this will relate to my future alumni. I thought my school did not display class rank but with my last transcript ( with complete 12th grade) there was ranking. So I guess there are good number of schools that practice class rank, and I am sure either way there are pros and cons. It’s just that a recent article I’ve read cited that many schools are no longer practicing ranking.</p>
<p>“Class rank standardizes the GPA. If one person has a 4.6 but isn’t in the top 10 while another is the valedictorian with only 3.9, it suggests that the 3.9 GPA may be more impressive.”</p>
<p>if the main source of variation in grades among schools is “grade inflation” that is true. If the main source of variation is in the student bodies, than it is not true. Instead it simply discriminates against students who attended HS’ with more advanced students. </p>
<p>I suspect this is why (IIUC) class rank is used more heavily at State u’s which are looking for geographic diversity/spread. It is also why many elite High schools do not report class rank.</p>
<p>I kinda think class rank is necessary for big public schools but not necessary for small ones. I know a lot of elite private HS are getting rid of class rank because competition becomes even more cutthroat when rank is involved.</p>
<p>Being that admissions to top university is nothing but cutthroat, they might as well get used to it…</p>
<p>Class rank is a very inaccurate quantifier, especially for schools that have a lot of excellent students. A class rank of 40 in TJ is far more impressive than valedictorian in a 160-student remote school in some mountain state; but by class rank alone, you would come to the opposite conclusion.</p>
<p>I don’t see how class rank is important, either. I have a 4.2 GPA, yet I’m not even in the top quarter. Either my school is extremely competitive or something’s overlooked. I hope the schools won’t see me missing the top quarter. I hope they see that I take tough courses and choose to avoid the fluff courses. I’m taking yearbook and journalism after lunch, while many others finished their school day. I am not lazy.</p>
<p>"Class rank is a very inaccurate quantifier, especially for schools that have a lot of excellent students. A class rank of 40 in TJ is far more impressive than valedictorian in a 160-student remote school in some mountain state; but by class rank alone, you would come to the opposite conclusion. "</p>
<p>You wont be surprised then, that TJ does not release class rank. I would actually say that rank 400 out 440 at TJ is more impressive than some valedictorians (based on my familiarity with TJ students). </p>
<p>As others have said though, the colleges that get the most TJ students can guess pretty accurately at rank. For the most part I don’t think this hurts TJ kids too much. If you want an extensive flame war, you can ask if it hurts TJ students at UVa, on the UVa forum ;)</p>