<p>At what point is your class rank considered by admissions officers to obviously indicate that you are on the very top level. I ask this because I know that the difference between valedictorian and saluditorian is not significant, considering that the difference is usually within tenths of a point. So, what rank shows that you are on level with the very best in your school, but may have had an unfortuitous grade at some point in your high school career?</p>
<p>Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>For top schools being in top 5% is important, if the school is really average or below, top 2 or 3 students.</p>
<p>Top 2 or 3? Wow. That's kind of sad. Especially since there are amazing students in our school that get beat out by people who took highschool classes in 6-8th grade. Not everyone has the same opportunities.. :/</p>
<p>take this all with a grain of salt. even the best schools top out at around 90%-91% of the incoming class in the top 10%. While obviously some of those outside of the top 10% are athletes, I find it hard to believe that everyone at Yale was either no. 1 or no. 2 in their class.</p>
<p>MIT (according to US News) says 97% of freshman class is in top 10%. They regularly do NOT admit lots of valedictorians and salutatorians. (Admit rate is 14%..). As you'll see throughout CC, class rank is just one of many factors that are considered.</p>
<p>When you think about the fact that 60% at ivies are hooked (see Golden's Price of Admissions) that only 10% are below top 10% is very telling. With not only athletes, but influential legacies, URMs and development candidates, the liklihood that an unhooked candidate is below top 10% is VERY small.</p>
<p>I agree with you Suze, so I'm wondering at what point it's clear that you're on the same level academically as the valedictorian, but may have slipped up once or twice.</p>
<p>SaveD:</p>
<p>Look up Paul Attewell, The Winner Take All High School, CCNY, Sociology of Education, Vol. 74, 2001</p>
<p>That's your answer.</p>
<p>at my school the difference is .02...</p>
<p>I have a 4.57... my friend has a 4.55... yup... could be a bit smaller since i truncated after the tenths digit...</p>
<p>So, what's considered a rank worthy of a top tier university?</p>
<p>At my school, the difference between Valedictorian, Salutarian and me (3rd...) is about a point between each!</p>
<p>Val has like a 98, Salutarian has like a 97, I have like a 96, and then below me its 95, and everyone until like #8 is seperated by a very small, fractions of a point.</p>
<p>Here's Attewell's answer, basically:</p>
<p>Here are three students with their SATI and II averages (old scale) and absolute class rank (not percentile), along with their chances of being admitted to Darmouth, IIRC (Attewell says that pattern hold true at other Ivy League schools).</p>
<p>SAT I: 770 SAT II: 760 Class Rank: 1 Probability of admission: 94%
SAT I: 770 SAT II: 760 Class Rank: 10 Probability of admission: 76%
SAT I: 770 SAT II: 760 Class Rank: 25 Probability of admission: 52%</p>
<p>SAT I: 750 SAT II: 740 Class Rank: 1 Probability of admission: 94%
SAT I: 750 SAT II: 740 Class Rank: 5 Probability of admission: 76%
SAT I: 750 SAT II: 740 Class Rank: 20 Probability of admission: 52%</p>
<p>SAT I: 700 SAT II: 700 Class Rank: 1 Probability of admission: 76%
SAT I: 700 SAT II: 700 Class Rank: 5 Probability of admission: 25%</p>
<p>As you can see, it's about the same to be #1 with an average SATI of 700 as it is to be #5 with a SATI of 750. And if you have a SAT of 770 and your class rank is #10, it's about the same as having a SAT of 750 with a class rank of #5.</p>
<p>From my high school, every year ONE student gets accepted by Harvard. Over the last many years, it has been either rank 1 or rank 2 holder. Tests scores, recs, gender, URM, ECs are probably other factors that determine which of the two get in. But we concluded that rank beyond 2 has no chance at Harvard. Still dozens apply every year: hope springs eternal...</p>
<p>I would break it down like this: top 10% gets your foot in the door--anything lower and admissions is unlikely (impossible w/o a hook, probably). Top 5% qualifies you for the average level of admission--Brown publishes their stats, and the overall top 5 percent-ers were accepted at about 14%, the overall admissions rate. Number one or two gets you a whopping 25% acceptance rate--not that much of an advantage, by itself.</p>
<p>Now, none of that takes into account test scores, as Tarhunt points out. There are other considerations, too--for example, I have been told that my rank was alright, but should really be in the single digits for the Ivies. My class is nearly 800 people. 14/800 is a lot different than 14/200, though both make the all-important top 10%. So take any advice about class rank with a grain of salt. Basically, if you are not Val/Sal, being ranked top 2% vs. top 4% doesn't make much of a difference by itself. Now, being ranked in the top 2% and having an SAT average 60 points higher than the top 4% person will yield a much more significant advantage (though by no means unsurmountable).</p>
<p>what do you guys think about a class rank #1/300 and 770M 620CR 650W and 800 760 710 SAT II scores would chance at Top Ivies?</p>
<p>would you rather be A or B</p>
<p>A: Rank 1/400, SAT 650 on each section (1950)</p>
<p>B: Rank 40/400, 2400 SAT</p>
<p>I would rather be B</p>
<p>ckmets, I would also rather be B (provided that I stayed within the top 10%). </p>
<p>keisukey--well, it's never great to view rank and SAT's in a vacuum, but honestly I would say that chances aren't fabulous. I mean rank is great, and SAT II's are strong, but verbal and writing are pretty darn low for a top ivy. There is a reason why valedictorian's aren't easy admits...but it's not like those numbers have no chance. They are just low in places where you don't want them to be.</p>