<p>We've now toured both campuses (Emory and Oxford) and one of the benefits that Oxford talks about is the smaller class sizes, but when I look at some stats Emory has posted, I see that at Oxford 80% of the classes have fewer than 30 students and set Emory it's 78%. The tour guide at Emory did talk about some larger classes. Can any shed more light on class size?</p>
<p>The largest classes are first year Bio, Chem, Physics sequences. They have like 80 (someone correct me if I’m wrong) per section.</p>
<p>Math classes are capped at 35, iirc. </p>
<p>I don’t think either of those are a big deal since it’s a lecture style format anyway. </p>
<p>Econ and BSchool classes are somewhere in the middle.</p>
<p>I doubt any seminar or discussion based class has more than 25 people in it. Probably even fewer than that.</p>
<p>The average, as a measure of the center of a data set, is easily affected by extreme values. At Oxford, almost all the classes are the same size, around 25 students. At Emory College, there are large intro classes (e.g., bio, math, chemistry, physics, psychology, sociology) and then really tiny, very focused senior classes. They average out to about the same number, but they’re qualitatively very different experiences, particularly given that at Emory College, a lot of intro classes are taught by graduate students (and adjuncts, in certain fields like economics), which isn’t the case at Oxford.</p>
<p>Average number of students is irrelevant in this case. And, off the top of my head, I’m not convinced the extreme values really affect the average (too few outliers). But, I definitely agree that Emory’s largest classes are larger than those of Oxford. And that the experiences are very different.</p>
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<p>If your kid has a few departments of interest, we can give you more specific information.</p>
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<p>My point isn’t that average is being skewed upwards or downwards, but that there aren’t that many classes whose enrollment is near the average, compared to classes that are much bigger and classes that are much smaller. The result is that the average doesn’t tell you much about how large any one of your classes is going to be; you’re going to have classes of 10 and classes of 50, but probably not a bunch of classes with 27 people in them (again, depending on your major).</p>
<p>Again, even though the averages are near the same, the experiences are different because those averages are arrived at through different distributions.</p>
<p>D currently is most interested in Anthropology, some talk of cognitive behavior/ neuro science, some talk of linguistics, but her main focus right now is cultural anthropology.<br>
How many classes might she expect to take that are lecture style? If you are trying to avoid those larger classes, is starting at Oxford a good strategy…thinking that then, coming into Emory as a junior you would have fewer of those large classes anyway? She loves Emory. It feels dynamic with the right balance of academics and interesting activities, and lack of big sports. ;-). But does prefer the smaller, discussion type classes.</p>
<p>I started at Oxford and not the Atlanta campus, so maybe my perceptions don’t align with the lived experiences of underclassmen at the Atlanta campus–but I would say that Oxford is a good way to get the best of both worlds. Most of the classes that are big at the Atlanta campus will have been taken your first two years at Oxford in a much smaller class size.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if you’re daughter has already been admitted to both or intends to apply, but I would recommend that she applies to both. Some other things I’d point out:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Emory has a strong graduate program in anthropology. Your daughter can take graduate classes while an undergraduate. If she wants to get out of lecture style classes, she’s going to want to take classes that are 300 level (junior level) and above.</p></li>
<li><p>If your daughter finds she’s more interested in biological anthropology, we have a BS in Anthropology & Human Biology (one of our “joint majors” that’s one, combined major).</p></li>
<li><p>The anthropology major only requires 3 specific courses; the other nine anthropology courses are more or less up to the student, leaving a lot of freedom.</p></li>
<li><p>We have a strong linguistics department and even a joint major in linguistics and psychology.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Also, here’s a recent post about an Oxford faculty member: <a href=“http://oxford.emory.edu/news/postcards-to-oxford-hello-from-jordan1/”>http://oxford.emory.edu/news/postcards-to-oxford-hello-from-jordan1/</a>. Incidentally, the faculty member named went to Harvard for undergrad and got his PhD from University of Michigan, usually tied for number 1 in the field.</p>
<p>@aigiqinf, Thank you so much! This is great information! D is planning to apply to Emory and Oxford. I am glad to hear from someone who started at Oxford and has made the transition to the Atlanta campus. I’d love to hear more about the experience of making that transition. Did you feel left out at all, or that others had made connections starting at the Atlanta campus that you missed out on? Was there enough to do on the Oxford campus?
Interesting about the graduate courses. I know at one other college we looked into students could actually start on their master’s while an undergrad. Is that a possibility? Is anthropology your major?</p>
<p>I actually graduated from Oxford a semester early because I brought in a full year of transfer credit that I earned in high school. I wouldn’t say that that I felt left out at all. If anything, I think the students at Oxford form far closer bonds than the students who start at the Atlanta campus. And Oxford students continue (not "transfer) to the Atlanta campus with about 400 others, a full 20% of the total graduating class. And on the Atlanta campus, Oxford kids are overrepresented in leadership. The last SGA president, for instance, was an Oxford continuee. And not to out myself, so to speak, but let’s just say that I get to formally vote on who the school gives honorary degrees to.</p>
<p>In terms of enough to do, college tends to be a self-contained bubble (students at the Atlanta campus tend to stay in the “Emory bubble” and not go to downtown Atlanta). At Oxford, I was satisfied with my social club and the occasional trip to Atlanta.</p>
<p>Emory offers some combined BA/MA and BS/MS programs, which largely exist in name only, but they’re are some new programs like the BA/MSPH that are gaining some traction. I’m not anthropology, incidentally. </p>
<p>I assume your daughter is seriously considering graduate work in anthropology. While earning a master’s degree sounds great, it actually isn’t that big of an advantage, which is one reason it very rarely happens (and anthropology doesn’t even pretend to offer the BA/MA program). Why? The MA is the first two years of a PhD program, after which you’re done with coursework and start writing your dissertation. An MA in a field like anthropology isn’t terribly employable and everyone wants you to take their coursework, so it wouldn’t save any significant time off of a PhD elsewhere (as your daughter probably knows, a large proportion of people apply directed to PhD programs after undergraduate and do their master’s degree en route; you don’t need a master’s degree to apply to the vast majority of PhD programs).</p>
<p>Also, such programs tend to attract a lot of pre-law and pre-med kids, who don’t realize that the program really won’t benefit them. The result is whether they’re pre-med, pre-law, or pre-PhD, the BA/MA and BS/MS programs in most fields take a lot of resources from the departments (e.g., supervising a thesis) without a whole lot of benefit for anyone.</p>
<p>@shoeboemom: Often whether or not instructors choose to just lecture/not be discussion/ problem solving oriented or not also depends on departmental norms. I must say that your introductory and even many intermediate experiences at main campus will be in large lecture halls learning from a powerpoint. However, what I would do is take more of the courses that contain a lab component or something (as there are several) and couple it with the IDS major or something (to design your own project and pursue smaller, but relevant courses outside of the anthropology major). Emory offers many ways to enhance your experiences, especially as it is beginning to lean toward more interdisciplinary departments/majors for Undergrads. </p>
<p>Checking enrollment figures for various courses in the anth. dept this semester, it looks like they naturally drop off once you hit like 285 (special topics at intermediate level) and many of the 300 levels are smaller (and likely better). So one strategy is to actually start off ASAP (perhaps Spring of freshman year or even along with your intro anth. class in fall?) in special topics and 300 level courses that don’t have pre-reqs. These usually will give you a better impression and feel of the best the major has to offer and will naturally have a good level of discussion and thought provocation in them. Don’t be afraid of a course simply because it is at the 2 or 300 level if you are a freshman. This is especially if it is in a “non-science” discipline or in a discipline where courses don’t necessarily build upon each other. Now what is cool about many upperlevel courses over in anthropology (at least if I trust the course description) is that they keep it relevant by doing more evidence based teaching and having students learn through case studies/ real contexts as opposed to simply using various contexts to convey facts about the topic (so you may use a case/context to figure out how to approach a certain problem that concern many in the field as opposed to just stick to a bunch of stats, terms, and historical facts and be asked to just “know”). </p>
<p>I would advise taking a close look at how instructors describe the courses they teach in the course atlas: <a href=“Error 404 | Emory University | Atlanta GA”>Error 404 | Emory University | Atlanta GA;
<p>@aigiqinf, and @bernie12, This is so helpful! Thank you! Now, of course there’s that pesky issue of getting accepted and making the finances work, but if that happens, I think, like you @aiginqinf, My D would come in with AP (and IB) credits, (but we were told it was limited to the equivalent of 16 credits?). In looking at the course catalog at Oxford, it looks like she might be able to apply that same strategy (taking 200-300 level anthro courses) while there. I feel that the Oxford entry might be a good plan for D.</p>
<p>Oxford used to accept transfer students until about two years ago, so they had a policy of accepting up to 32 hours of transfer credit earned on a college campus (and 16 hours of AP/IB credit). The fact that this policy also applied to incoming freshman was sort of an accident (because, I mean, who would have a year of college credit while in high school?) Oxford caps AP/IB credit at 16 hours, while the Atlanta caps all credit (AP/IB/transfer) at 24 hours.</p>
<p>I don’t know if this will make a different, but the Oxford costs about $7,000 less per year than Emory College.</p>
<p>@aigiqinf, Thank you for that explanation about credits. On our tour of Oxford, the guide talked about graduating early, but recommended staying for the full 2 years. That could be a financial consideration. Can you continue for the 4th semester at Oxford even though you may officially be a junior, and have those credits count toward your 4 year degree?
I am not certain how the difference in pricing between Oxford and Emory would affect us. We’d need financial aid, and be hoping against hope for some merit aid. I asked at the info session about merit, wondering if Emory (like many other schools) has the policy of using any merit aid earned to reduce the loan/self help portion of FA first. The answer I got was ‘it depends’. I do wish Emory would follow some other generously endowed schools and meet need without loans. I know they do under a certain income (I think it’s 60K) but we don’t fall into that category. It also appears that Emory’s merit scholarships are, for the most part, large and highly competitive. There is mention of smaller ones, but I can’t find much detail. A relatively small merit package, that would erase the loan/self help portion of FA might do the trick.</p>
<p>This is a bit of a technicality: as a two year program, it’s not possible to officially have junior standing until you leave Oxford and enter Emory College. Anyone with 30+ hours is a sophomore, not a junior. You can’t count more than 78 hours earned at Oxford (including AP/IB credits) toward the four-year degree, though, but even if you bring in 16 hours of AP/IB, that shouldn’t be a problem. Note that, as an Oxford continuee, you must complete the equivalent of 3 semesters of full-time residency at Emory College. </p>
<p>So it’s not possible to graduate from Oxford and then finish from Emory College in just two more semesters, though you could graduate from the College by attending summer session and then two more semesters at Emory College. If you were trying to graduate super early from the College, you’d want to graduate early from Oxford too.</p>
<p>I would mention that you should find merit aid to be much easier to get starting at Oxford than starting at Emory College in Atlanta, which would generally continue even when you’re at Emory College. On the other hand, the general rule of thumb is that you’re not likely to get significant merit aid unless you’re above the 75th percentile of the incoming class. </p>
<p>If your income is under 100k a year, the loan is to keep your loans under 15k for the four years you’re at Emory (<a href=“Grants and Scholarships | Emory University | Atlanta GA”>Financial Aid at Emory | Emory University | Atlanta GA).</p>
<p>Total loans won’t be capped at 15k. Just subsidized loans. </p>
<p>Just to be clear. </p>
<p>Additionally, you’ll get terrific grant aid too if you’re under 100k. </p>