I have a friend that really wants to be an engineer. She does many camps and constantly talks about her future as an engineer. I am concerned though that she can not cut the program. She has her mind set on a big school, 40,000+ students, with a world known engineering program. She thinks she knows about the career of an engineer but I think she just wants the title and the money. I heard that engineers should take the highest level of math and science classes offered at their school, is that true? She however as a junior isn’t taking or planning on taking AP chem, AP calc, physics, computer science, or any upper level science or math course. She has no plan B, and says that because she is solely a girl she will become a engineer, I am worried she will go off to college and her life will end if she finds out then that she can’t get into any engineering program. She takes a robotics class, where they just tinker with remote control robots. That is not the life of most engineers they need to be strongly skilled in STEM fields. What should I tell her? What classes are absolutely necessary for engineers to take in high school?
Technically, she doesn’t need to take those courses to get into an engineering program. If she wants to get into a top engineering program, she’s doing something wrong. If she’s happy with a state flagship (and has a high GPA right now), as long as she knows she’s going to have to take all the intro-level, weed-out courses and work hard, she should be fine. Lots of people do change majors if they find out their first plan isn’t right after all, and that’s ok. I think attending the camps and taking the robotics class are more worthwhile than you give her credit.
Getting into an engineering program and graduating from one are two different things. She’ll be cut out out for it or she won’t. Poseurs don’t get through. It’s just too hard to fake it. There’s a reason engineering is sometimes called pre-business. 
Minimum: math through precalculus (so that the student is ready for calculus), high school physics, high school chemistry, and the rest of a typical college-prep curriculum including English, history, foreign language, art/music.
Desirable if available to the student: honors math, calculus if the student completes precalculus in 11th grade or earlier, honors or AP physics and/or chemistry, and rigorous choices in the rest of the typical college-prep curriculum.
Not to be Debbie Downer, but, why is this your concern?
She’ll find out, on her own, all about the major and the intense level of work required. How will her life end if she doesn’t get into a program? These are mostly impacted programs anyway, and even the most prepared students might not get into an impacted program.
My dd is an engineer and went through the EE coursework. Robotics was 1 course. She was the only female survivor in her classes by the end of sophomore year, but she also came in with a strong Math, Physics, Chem, and English background. She started out in the engineering program with 500 kids (average weeder courses), in her math and physics classes. Towards the end of her senior year, she had maybe 20-25 in her EE/CS classes. Most kids couldn’t handle the workload and couldn’t figure out how things “worked” together. There is NO WAY she could have completed her degree just because of her gender.
Somewhat. Actual requirements are lower, but every such course she can complete in high school gives her that much more leeway in completing her degree on time. Engineering is tough, and coming in without calc and without physics and chemistry makes it that much tougher and/or longer. But you can complete an engineering degree without those high school courses.
Nope. Being female will open a few doors and give her a little bit of support, but the coursework remains the same. I have seen great female engineering students and terrible female engineering students, and the latter rarely graduate or find good employment.
You should tell her that if she wants to be an engineer she should be prepared to work hard to get it, and if she is unwilling to do that in high school it is extremely unlikely that she will find that motivation in college. Worse, she may discover that she just flat-out doesn’t like it, and the earlier she faces the challenges and realities of the study and practice of engineering the happier and more successful (in or out of engineering) she will be.
The 500 students in the frosh/soph math and physics courses presumably included students in lots of majors (i.e. all of the engineering majors, physics, chemistry, and (for the math courses) math) who all take the same sequence of courses. The junior/senior courses become much smaller, even if no one is “weeded out”, since only those students in the major take them, and many of them are electives within the major that are not taken by all students in the major.
@ucbalumnus, Most of those courses, were engineering-based for all engineering and physics majors. It wasn’t that long ago, and lots of international students. I guess they had to get into those courses via their engineering advisors.
Aunt Bea - that is a pretty low retention rate, even for Engineering. I know it’s difficult, but I would be surprised if 95% dropped out of engineering. Maybe they changed disciplines.
Re: #8
Remember, those 500 students in frosh/soph math and physics split up into many different majors in junior/senior year (e.g. 50 math, 25 physics, 40 chemical engineering, 30 civil engineering, 50 electrical engineering, 40 mechanical engineering, 40 industrial engineering, 30 materials engineering, etc.). So it is not like all 500 were frosh electrical engineering majors of whom most dropped out by junior year.
Top engineering programs are selective, they won’t take someone who they don’t think can succeed as a direct admit. Also, freshman engineering classes aren’t really specific, they are about the same in many schools as a premed or physics major … So my guess is that she will get into a good but not top engineering program …
Also, for math, most schools will test to place you … and Calc 1 is really not jaw-dropping hard. Physics 1 requires Calculus … so personally, I’d take Calc 1 in fall and then Phys 1 in spring, unless that just doesn’t work in a four year plan at that particular school.
And about that 4 year plan and “remedial work” etc. I went to a flagship in the early 80s and they did not test and they had remarkable failure and weedout rates … people in engineering for one to three semesters and then GPA too low … move on the business degree or whatever. The private schools tests and two of my friends took remedial (pre-calc) math and presto graduated on time (one with a MS in 5 years) because they learned it right and caught up.
And 4.5 years is more typical … so unless you are super well prepared maybe that is a better plan … slow and steady wins the race. Or summer school or community college calculus, etc.
At that point, it is all about how hard she works and how smart and prepared she is. There are all kinds of people from braggarts that like to pretend they never study, but do, to really smart people who never study but do well, to lazy people who look for easiest classes etc.
Since it sounds like you may know her well, the advice she should get is to take a harder HS path because it will make college freshman year easier. She should know engineering is hard and that female affirmative action is rare (and noone will scale her test grades by 10% to make her pass) …
But you seem really judgmental and critical of her dream … can you give her advice without coming across as a know-it-all ? Her robotics class maybe should be more realistic.
That said, a lot of our project lead the way 4 year people did not get into flagship or equivalent schools … but they are engineering majors … probably some more successfully than others …
primarily because some people work when they have to and some people don’t
Is there any reason she is avoiding AP Calc? That would be a helpful way to confirm that she’d like Engineering academics.
Thanks you guys for the replies… Update… she now plans to attend University of Mississippi for accounting/Business because she took those classes in high school recently and really liked them.