<p>Advice needed - Do you think it is important to look at the course lists of each college to see what they offer in the theater department? I that something we should even consider? The reason I am asking is we had planned to make University of San Diego our safety school and went on a visit. Loved everything about it and was planning on applying then I checked out the course list. Very few courses offered in theater and 3 of them were really English courses that they were counting as theater classes. Should the variety and amount of courses be considered? Thanks</p>
<p>Absolutely! You are on the right track. You might want to look at this thread:</p>
<p><a href=“Compare/contrast BFA Acting curricula - Theater/Drama Majors - College Confidential Forums”>Compare/contrast BFA Acting curricula - Theater/Drama Majors - College Confidential Forums;
<p>Its advice is relevant to BA programs as well as BFA programs. If you are interested in a performance-oriented program, you should look for classes in acting, voice&speech, and movement.</p>
<p>Thank you so much. I just read this thread and I am glad I am on the right track.</p>
<p>Yes! Read the curriculum and a sample class schedule. There are some programs that say they are “conservatory style” but when you review classes they do not have as many classes in studio as a true conservatory. You can also look at the number of credits in the drama department. A conservatory BFA program will have between 80 and 90 and then around 30-40 gen eds.
My D wants as much acting as possible so we have checked this carefully for our schools.</p>
<p>My son took it one step further and also researched the faculty.</p>
<p>In addition to looking at the required classes look at all classes that are offered. Many schools will offer lots of electives in theatre in addition to the required classes.</p>
<p>Can a student create a sort of BFA through taking all of their electives in theater?</p>
<p>Yes, at many schools a student may be able to create a more rigorous training program by taking all of the performance based electives in theatre.</p>
<p>A student could also choose to supplement training with a summer intensive or a semester program focused on performing through another university or training program.</p>
<p>This may seem too simplistic but is a BFA just more classes in theater with no electives outside of the theater realm? A BFA still has core college requirements correct?</p>
<p>It will really depend on the individual school. Some BFAs have quite a few core type classes. Others have very limited core classes. You really have to pull the curriculum to find what you are looking for.</p>
<p>All BFAs will have some requirements outside of the major classes… but that can generally vary from 5 - 10% of the course work to 30 - 50% of the course work in required classes outside of the major. A BA program will generally range from 45% - 70% of the required course work outside of the major.</p>
<p>Some BFA programs are very structures and sequenced in terms of a class of students traveling together only with their class through ha prescribed series of classes with very little flexibility in course selection. Some others do give more flexibility for classes you can take inside or outside of the major. </p>
<p>Some BA programs follow a more prescribed structure as well, but many will offer a student a bit more flexibility in course selection. </p>
<p>Not all BFA programs are alike, just as not all BA programs are alike. I the end each school has to be researched individually to see what the requirements and possibilities may be.</p>
<p>In the end, no one professionally cares about what degree you have earned. There is no one path to a similar career outcome. No guarantees, either.</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>@KatMT Thank you for your time and patience with all my questions. My D wants a BFA program because she wants most of her courses to be in the theater realm. My thoughts are if she can’t get into a BFA program that she could create one by taking all of her electives in theater which would add up to the same number of units that a BFA would be. Am I missing something? And I agree, no one cares professionally what degree you have as long as you are qualified for the part you are auditioning for. Just looking to help her find her way if the BFA doesn’t pan out. :)</p>
<p>I think you may be missing several things. First thing to consider is if she wants a theory based education or skill and performance based training in college? The other thing is if she wants to take only theater realm classes does that mean little core classes if so she may be a fit for the conservatory schools. Here are a few other things that you need to consider.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Some BA programs just do not offer the advanced level of classes that BFA programs do. Look in the course listings for level 4 and 5 acting classes, more then one class of movement and voice. Some schools do not call classes by level so you need to call and ask someone about what is taught. The New School and Keynon come to mind in having a vague description of depth of teaching on their website but I understand there is a real depth to the skill learning there.</p></li>
<li><p>Some BFA programs that have BA programs as well do not allow you to take the same classes that the BFA students do. These programs may also not offer you the advanced classes. </p></li>
<li><p>BFA programs are often structured differently then BA programs. Some are more about the level of classes while others are about building a company of performers. If she wants to be a part of a small ensemble class that moves along together in training then by taking elective units to copy a BFA would not work.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Shacherry is making such an important point, Bisouu— it is worth researching every school carefully. A conservatory style BFA takes a small group of students who train together, intensively, for 4 years. Often each class functions as an ensemble, performing together almost exclusively. The class may go abroad for a semester or even a year-- but they go as a group. </p>
<p>Some people (my D is one) thrive in that atmosphere and there are lots of reasons why it’s a great way to study acting. But some want more choices, maybe even a double major, and some aren’t as interested in the ensemble as they are in other aspects. And even among BFAs there are very different ways of doing things. Some aren’t based on an ensemble at all.</p>
<p>The best thing is for a student to look deeply at the websites of every program he/she is interested in. I remember being surprised at how much information my D had gleaned from the websites-- things that I never would have noticed. But she was the one who was going to live it out. I studied and read up and talked to people and made sure she saw websites from every place that might interest her-- and then she took over and decided which places to follow up on. </p>
<p>One school whose non-auditioned BA seems to have lots of depth is Temple, in Philly. But many, many schools with BAs offer virtually no training, just theory and history. So, finding a backup is difficult. D’s was the nonauditioned BFA at University of Rhode Island, which would have given her the ensemble structure she wanted. </p>
<p>You’re totally asking the right questions!!</p>
<p>What doesn’t seem fair is there may be kids out there that with the right kind of acting training that a BFA provides would flourish and become wonderful additions to the program but because they restrict entry these kids are left out. I know for a fact that kids who are deserving are not admitted just because of space. Colleges should offer BFA programs without audition requirements…I know there are a handful but certainly not the norm.</p>
<p>I’m sure many of us felt as you did, bisouu, as we began this process. It is very hard to imagine your child safely on the other side of what seem to be insurmountable hurdles to the college education they want. </p>
<p>We won’t sugar-coat the audition process: It is unpredictable and incomprehensible. All a student can do is prepare, pick reasonable schools (where the fit seems right, and where some have at least more than a 10% acceptance rate), and hope for the best. Anyone who definitely wants to be in college needs to have some non-auditioned options (BA or BFA). Otherwise there is a chance of no acceptances.</p>
<p>On the other hand, from the experiences on this forum - which is a very small sample, but a good one - most kids get a few acceptances they are really happy about, including some at their top choices. Even in this “kind of unfair” corner of the college app world, it’s amazing how positively people’s experiences turn out. Part of that is because if people make decent lists, they just do end up with good choices, but also it’s because fate seems to send kids where it is right for them. We’re consistently amazed.</p>
<p>Another thing I would say is that this field allows such varied paths that people shouldn’t worry about the outcomes quite so much. Theatre people come from BFAs, BAs, training conservatories, summer intensives, no training at all - and they can do remarkably well. College isn’t the “first cut” in whether you will be allowed to be a working actor. What is important is what the student wants, and will enjoy. After that, it’s all hard work, luck and about a zillion other uncontrollable factors.</p>
<p>My D was so torn among her choices in the spring (she had covered all of the bases, and ended up with quite a mix of good acceptances) that we finally said, “Just pick the school that seems like you’ll be the happiest in the fall. Don’t even think beyond that.” It’s all a big experiment, anyway - everyone going through the college process should at least allow that maybe once they get to a school they might realize they would like something different, and be open to transferring. It is very common, and there is no shame in it.</p>
<p>There is a thread here on non-auditioned BFAs. If your D’s heart is absolutely set on a BFA curriculum (extreme immersion in theatre, and few academics), I highly recommend finding one that she likes. There are more than you think, all over the US, and many have excellent programs.</p>
<p>Bisouu, your comment definitely reflects the frustration that lots of applicants and their parents feel over the audition/application process…but the smaller programs are adamant that they could not provide the level and intensity of training they do if their classes were larger. At that point it’s a matter of both quality and economics. No school could hope realistically to add faculty in response to sheer number of potential students–it’s just not logistically possible and would affect the quality and “culture” of their program. That said, an open admission program can be a great fit for certain kids, especially those who are extroverted and competitive and thrive in a situation where they have to capture their professors’ attention and compete with many other students for roles in plays. But for others, an intimate program where they can focus on skills and artistic growth, and where their professors know them well on an individual level, is the best way to go. Since a BFA requires a huge amount of commitment as well as raw ability and deep interest, an audition is the only way schools have to make sure that they are bringing in students who really can make the most of their intense training and who are likely to stay the course. </p>
<p>It sounds like your real concern is that your daughter may not be admitted to an auditioned program even though you both believe she would thrive in one. It’s tough to let yourself have faith in the process, but these programs, and the folks who run the auditions, have so much experience evaluating kids, and when it’s the right fit–a kid with raw ability who conveys the ability to work well in a given program–the auditors recognize it. And yes, the odds are tough and most kids don’t get in everywhere, and it’s important to have non-auditioned options as well, but (with apologies for repeating another CC cliche) this is the process they’re signing on for as a career, too, and preparing for auditions is part of how you learn whether this is the right path for you. </p>
<p>There are plenty of parents on this board–and I’m definitely one of them!–who made sure their kids included non-auditioned academic backup schools on their lists, places where they would be happy to go and where they felt they could put together an interesting and valuable four years in both BA and BFA programs. And there are LOTS of working theater folks who didn’t do a BFA and have lived to tell the tale (and thrive professionally). What was hardest for me as a parent was to stay unattached to one specific outcome, even though I knew my son’s heart was set on a specific degree at a specific school. His plan ultimately worked out, but we were prepared with good alternatives in case it didn’t. Hang in there–our job is to help our kids get ready, and to trust that the schools will do THEIR job well.</p>
<p>I agree with you, Bissouu, about the auditions. I was talking to a man who had judges auditions for years and he said point blank that what he could see in the auditioners was as much previous training as talent. Northwestern, whose great nonauditioned BA program produces as many successful actors as any auditioned program, proves the point. </p>
<p>So it’s unfair, and maybe even more unfair than the ordinary college process which is its own kind of crap shoot. But it does seem to work, very often. Most kids who go through come out with some good choices. The ones who don’t often take a gap year to prepare and do brilliantly the second time around. And when you look around, you start to see how many actors started with a BA in something else completely, from a college with not much of a theater program at all. </p>
<p>So, find the places you like, help your D see that it’s not an irrefutable judgement of her talent, but a decision made on the basis of a few minutes of her work, by people who may be in a dreadful mood during those minutes, or who may already have too many of her type in their program already. The calmer she is about it, the better she will likely do. </p>
<p>If you have the opportunity for good coaching, it’s almost certainly worth it. (D did without coaching, and I regret that, which is funny of me as she could not be happier in her BFA!) But having a coach means having another person you can trust during a process that can be bewildering, and that in itself is calming. And then, as much as you can, encourage her to enjoy the process and remember that the life of an actor is always full of uncertainty, of performance under pressure, of sailing along on a wing and a prayer. And a lot of satisfaction comes with that too!</p>
<p>Thank you all. I think I am stressing more than she is. I know she will end up in the right spot for her and will do great. She is highly adaptable and makes the most of whatever situation she is put in. I know she will thrive. She participates in our local community theaters and has toured with one company for a semester. She has been on several tv/film auditions and is very aware of rejection. She will find her way…me on the other hand …not so sure LOL</p>
<p>Can anyone direct me to the non audition BFA thread?</p>