Classes to take Senior Year - A Consideration for Competitive Admissions and Preparation for College

Applying to College
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D25 is looking to apply to several highly rejective colleges next year (she has automatic admissions status at the state flagship, but does not want to go there - which will be the source of an additional thread for safety’s and matches) and I have a question regarding appropriate courses for her to take senior year.

For background, she goes to a T1 high school in rural Kansas that offers only the following AP courses: Modern World, US Hist, US Gov, Eng Lang, Eng Lit, and several Art courses. No STEM APs are provided.

By graduation she will have taken:

4 years of English (Honors English I & II, AP AP Eng Lang, AP Eng Lit)
4 years of a foreign language (Spanish)
3 years of history / social science (AP World, AP USHist, AP US Gov)
4 years of science (Bio, Chem, AP Bio*, Physics*)
4 years of math (Geometry, Alg 2, Pre-Calc, Calc*)

She is currently taking AP Bio through Johns Hopkins CTY program and the course will appear on her HS transcript.

My concern relates mostly to Physics and Calculus. These two courses as offered at her high school are basic, non-honors, non-AP. Through Johns Hopkins and other similar providers, she has access to AP versions of these two topics. My question really has two parts: a) would top 30* colleges (but non-ivy league) care if she did not take an AP class if it is not offered at her high school (I believe the conventional wisdom is that a college will not hold it against an applicant if they did not take a course that was not offered at their high school) and b) if accepted at such a college, would taking an AP level course provide a more solid foundation for success. With the schools she is targeting, we want her to be a competitive applicant and, if accepted, a competent student.

To the extent her background is relevant to the question:

She is primarily focused on molecular biology as a career (I know it is early for that) and has been involved in several summer programs in that field and has steered her course work in that direction when possible (e.g., AP Bio). She is interested in Cornell (which has a degree program that is tailor made for her interests), Northwestern, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, UNC, UVA, and Rice. She has taken the ACT once and has a 32; she will take again in December and current practice scores would indicate a 35. She has a 4.0 UW GPA.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and input.

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No. Same answer applies to Ivy League.

No But not knowing her HS curriculum, I’m unsure how much more slowly her calc course is vs the fairly slow pace of AP Calc AB. Regardless, neither is likely better to (on its own) prepare her to do well vs the other.

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She sounds right on track to me. She is not only doing what she can at HS, she is going above and beyond that in her area of interest.

Of course you named a bunch of very hard admits. Not that she shouldn’t apply if she stays on the track you outline, but the really critical thing will be to identify some other colleges which will be easier admits and would also be great.

You don’t have to do this now, but this forum is GREAT at brainstorming options. Like I am already itching to suggest some other great public options (Washington, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pitt, and so on), maybe WUSTL as a slightly easier reach, and so on.

But again, in terms of course track, I think you are good.

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Is there anyway for you to get more information about the physics and calculus classes she would take at her high school?

I grew up in Kansas and Oklahoma, and went to a variety of rural schools in both. Some of them had perfectly reasonable advanced high school math and science classes. Others were terrible, and not really any better than not taking the class. The high school I was at before I left for to boarding school had calculus and physics taught by a coach who really didn’t understand the material himself, and just had students read the book on their own, and gave them tests straight from the book with no support.

Can you find out from the school what is actually covered during the year, and compare that to what would be covered in a class from outside the school? Also, can you find out what qualifications the teacher has for the class, and if previous students have felt like they had the support they needed to learn the material well?

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Thank you for your response and I omitted Univ Washington, which is on her current list (her mom is pushing Wisc). I have lurked here for awhile and agree that the forum is amazing at assisting in the matching / targeting process.

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She will likely need to “retake” calculus in college (it won’t reqlly be a retake if only because approach and pace will necessarily be different).
I agree with @MAmomto4 : try to find out who teaches these classes. (Isn’t calculus “automatically honors”? Most HS count it as such and all T1 schoolw I know.)
Taking the HS version, if taught well (even if slower paced) would be sufficient as an introduction before she takes the college course. If the class is going to be a waste of time due to unqualified teachers or if she really wants to learn more in depth she could take it through CTY.
For Physics, would CTY offer an algebra based physics class similar to AP Physics 1 or 2 or the old Ap Physics B?

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I agree she is fine. However, I would put a solid effort into testing if she hasn’t done that already.

At the top level, the issue of testing has recently to shifted back to necessary. While schools are unlikely to require them due to their mission to increase access, AOs from several Ivies (and others) have gone on record admitting that they struggle to assess preparedness without a score. Math has been a particular issue.

This actually should but some of your concerns to rest, since the SAT only covers through algebra 2. I don’t think they care so much how far along you are (other than within your personal context) as much as having a solid understanding of the building blocks.

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Thank you for your response.

I agree with a college calculus retake regardless of what she takes in high school. A solid mathematical foundation is critical for sciences and repeating calculus is not an issue. I am comfortable with her teacher such that I suspect she will get the exposure to the material she needs, but she has already had that same teacher for geometry and algebra 2. Sometimes access to different teaching styles, etc. is helpful.

I am more concerned about the physics class as I suspect that course will be low rigor (we know the teacher and, to be fair, its more the other kids in class than the teacher). I think CTY offers AP Physics 1 and AP Physics 2.

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Yes, I’ve read with interest the thread re “Yale Admissions Director Favors Submitting Scores”.

She took the ACT in Sept and got a 36R, 34E, 30M, 30S. She took a practice round yesterday and got a 36R, 36E, 34M, 35S. This pattern is similar to her PSAT from last month: 730 verbal and 670 math (most likely commended, but not over the semifinalist threshold). She has always tested well, but almost always higher on the verbal side.

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If her intention is to attend a public university, AP courses with scores of 4 or 5 are often accepted for college credit. This may give the student more freedom in course selection or may result in qualifying to graduate in less than 4 academic years–which will save money that can be applied to grad school costs.

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I hadn’t considered the question from that perspective. Having the option to place out of some classes could certainly be helpful. I think she is planning to do that with some of the humanities APs if that option is available at her eventual college, and, depending upon the circumstances, sould apply to STEM courses too. Thank you.

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I’d take the AP physics class then (1 or 2, they are not sequential but simply cover different topics) since it’d likely give some credit in a subject she won’t need much of.
If she studies STEM she’ll be taking calculus and perhaps biostats so the calc credit is less necessary imho.
The ACT 36 is perfect :clap: and there’s no need to take the SAT.

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