I didn’t see through the website. Is there a way to tell the biggest programs? In this day and age of STEM STEM STEM I imagine it’s declining.
I did not see a way through college navigator or otherwise to see if any programs had bulk.
We’ll if nothing else these are more schools to look at. It doesn’t seem as if money is an issue because of the ED thing and $ weren’t mentioned and obviously on an overall basis no one is confusing Mary Washington with even William & Mary let alone Middlebury or Swarthmore.
But given it’s a degree that will provide minimal opportunity in the field and perhaps grad school is in the future…perhaps going to a lesser pedigree school with a fine rep in the field makes sense…at least investigating. It does seem as soon on the original list are fine schools but not necessarily fine classics schools. Many majors have schools that are top ranked in the field even though they aren’t top ranked overall like an Iowa in English or ASU in supply chain.
We’ll I wish the OP luck.
I would be wary of ED if there’s not 100% certainty in choice. Yes, some top schools now fill half the class this way. But the other half still come in non binding.
And in a recent year OWU graduated 5 students with a major in Latin & Ancient Greek Studies.
I don’t think that it comes as a big surprise that Classics and other related majors draw small numbers of students at any college. OWU is a small college with a graduating class of less than 400 students currently spread out among 70 majors. Last year they announced that they were eliminating and consolidating a number of majors, reducing the 90 majors they had previously offered down to 70.
Their Business major graduated the largest number of students in the most recent year reported by Niche was only 31. Biology was the #10 most popular major in that graduating class with 12. Anyone can do the math. The numbers in any of their majors are going to be small.
With respect to LACs with the most students majoring in classical languages and classical studies, the highest figure I could find is at Holy Cross, with a notable 12 classics majors, followed by Oberlin, with 7 graduating students across relevant majors; Hamilton, with 6; and Haverford, with 5. For a better feel for the number of intended classics majors at these schools at any one time, all of these figures should be multiplied by four. Since it hasn’t been discussed much, Oberlin seems to be a sleeper in this group.
The catalog as well as the list of courses actually taught each semester. Sometimes schools only offer a class once a year or every other year. Makes course sequencing very important.
So to respond to the Mary Washington suggestion…perhaps I am wrong (I may be biased having lived in VA for 46 of my 49 years) but I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine and elite PhD program (e.g. Yale or Penn) taking a Mary Washington grad over a Swarthmore grad. Am I missing something?
Of the 9-10 (I don’t remember the exact number) of Classics majors in my graduating class, exactly one ended up doing a PhD. At some point- probably sophomore year- we all insisted that’s where we were heading. The stats have gotten lower since then.
So the odds that a HS kid who thinks she wants a PhD is going to end up doing one? I’m thinking very low odds- and not the right way to pick her undergrad!
You did say your student wants to go elite. It’s certainly anything but. So I’ll give you I’m off topic
I’d look up professor bios from…choose 20 schools. I’d imagine you’ll see a gamut if schools.
U Mary Washington was rated #1 by one publication. It was student rates I believe.
For ba / phd
They have a Michigan, Bryn Mawr
Ohio U / Wisconsin…that’s comparable to UMW
UMW / Duke
Ball state / Michigan State etc
Towson State / Brown
Now go to Swarthmore and do realize you need matches and safeties. You can walk on water and it’s still a reach to be a Swattie. And their kids, like most, have steered STEM but they show
Swarthmore
Bryn Mawr / UVA
UNC / PENN
Ohio Wesleyan
Delaware / UC Irvine
South Alabama / Penn State
Obviously finding the right program is paramount. And faculty at higher end schools will likely have higher end degrees but not always.
An SLAC is a worthy goal but is it the right fit ? You say too large isn’t. It’s great you are visiting and doing your homework. Too many kids go to their dream school and transfer.
I wouldn’t discount Mary Washington as not being able to get your child into an elite PhD program. Being a big fish in a small pond can be exceptionally helpful in getting a lot of perks and advantages many parents & students assume they can only get at a more ‘prestigious’ college.
In looking at where the faculty of Mary Washington’s Classic department got their undergrads and PhD degree - I am sure they have quite a few contacts at those elite colleges your daughter may want to attend as a grad student. And it also seems clear that prestigious undergrad not necessary for prestigious grad - it is going to be her academic record and the quality of research and recommendations that your child has, rather than the name of the school she attended.
I love this comment. You remind me of the story of Brian Muraresku, an author I heard interviewed last year, and whose book, “The Immortality Key”, I then went out and read. Brian was a Sanskrit major at Brown. After doing a deep dive into classical studies, he got to senior year, and he asked himself, “What can I do with this degree?” He decided he could either go on to get his PhD and teach, or go to law school. He went to law school. But the rest of the story is that now in his 40s (mid life crisis?), he decided to do a ton of research and travel back to ancient and medieval sites in Europe and the Middle East. “The Immortality Key” is the result of all that. As John Lennon said, “Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans.” And in different words but saying pretty much the same thing was Joseph Campbell, “We must let go of the life we’ve planned, to accept the one that is waiting for us.”
Brian was not in my class at Brown, but we did have an Egyptology major and a handful of “create your own major” graduates who focused on Akkadian, Sumerian and Ugaritic.
I just put the book on reserve at my library- thank you SO much for the recommendation!!!
Amazing! Makes me think of Bill Murray talking about “moldy Sumerian gods” in Ghostbusters (Haha). Actually my core curriculum in college required a year of ancient everything - history, literature, philosophy, art. So I’m well acquainted with moldy old gods, be they Sumerian, Babylonian, or Egyptian. Loved the storiex of Gilgamesh. My favorite god was Egypt’s Aton. He had only a brief stay, a one hit wonder, but the art & architecture that he inspired during the reign of Akhenaten and Nefertiti was much more lively and human that what came before.
I want to caution you about one aspect of “elite” SLACs, @DeadHeadDad. D20 attends one that has not yet appeared here. It is in a very small town, in a rural area and D was drawn to the idea of everyone being together in a tight knit community, much like your D seems to want. In fact, that was the tone of all of the school’s messaging.
Her experience has been completely unexpected and, in her words, more cliquey than high school. The athletes, artsy kids, POC, LGBTQ, financial aid kids, and prep school crowd really self-segregate. Perhaps it is different at schools in the Midwest but our experience in the NE leads me to strongly encourage you to have your D dig deeply into the culture at the schools and try to connect with students who seem more similar to her and ask about their experience. Often, the day to day is a lot different than the sales pitches.
Thanks for this. Yeah the vibe is probably the most important part of the decision for her and it is something that she will focus on pretty seriously as we get to the tail end of this process.
If by elite we are talking top 20 I am assuming you are talking about either Williams or one of the Maine schools. If so, I am not surprised by your daughter’s experience. We have been generally quite turned off by the NESCAC schools.
re:vibe- I know it’s paradoxical, but I know three recent Princeton grads, one of whom is likely on the spectrum, two are just the kind of kids who were labeled “weird” in HS, and all three had a fantastic time (socially, academically) at Princeton. I think of it as the “ultimate” school for cliques and separatism and all that- but I’m told no by kids who found it incredibly refreshing and enriching after a “not so satisfying” HS experience.
So it pays to keep your eyes and mind open. Apparently, there is room for everyone-- even the socially awkward, not preppy, “I love math so much I want to talk about it all the time even with people who don’t love math as much as me” types!!!
Another one to look at for students that are looking for that Hard Core Classics experience is St Johns College in Annapolis and Santa Fe. They were the creators of the original Liberal Arts Education and the program is focused the Classic Writings and Great Books of Western Civilization.
